5 ms·

Rather than more effective, I'd wish 3D printing were faster. My main grip with 3D printing stuff is the time it takes - and, depending on the printer, the nois

Rather than more effective, I'd wish 3D printing were faster. My main grip with 3D printing stuff is the time it takes - and, depending on the printer, the noise it makes.

delecti 6y ago
SLA printers are considerably faster and quieter, but the resins used are also much less safe than a spool of PLA (noxious fumes, gloves requried), and the post processing is more of a hurdle. I think FDM is already incredibly fast though, considering the achievable quality, precision, and ease of creating a single instance of something.
- sircastor 6y ago
  I think a novel resin that was safe for humans and safely disposable/biodegradable would be huge transformationally for home 3D printing. That might get the speed to a point where the average person would tolerate one.
  - derekp7 6y ago
    The printers also need to get less fiddly for the average person. Things like setting the bed temperature, print head temp, fan speed, etc and watching the first couple layers to make sure they don't curl up on you. And those settings change with different brands of filament, and it is hard to tell which one to change and in which direction.
    - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
      They sell printers which “solve” that problem by locking you in to one type of filament. I would love to see automatic print failure detection (with a camera, even a micro camera at the nozzle). Figuring out the correct settings for unknown plastic seems like it would be hard to solve, but perhaps there’s some base material properties that could be determined automatically which might help. I’ve noticed that the Prusa 3D printer software has a sizable database of filament brands in its material settings section. I’d be curious how foolproof those settings all are for each brand of filament. But of course a manufacturer could change formulation at any time... I solve this problem by only buying one of two brands and keeping custom settings for them. I started my career in CNC machining. People always thought that meant software did everything for me, but no I had to choose tool sizes, spindle RPM, feed rates, depth of cut, etc. The CNC is not a magic machine that makes parts for you, it’s a tool. So I guess I’m a bit biased for thinking that current 3D printers are super useful tools that require a certain amount of operator competency. You cannot put any random filament in and expect good results, and actually that might be a hard problem to solve on the back end. Much easier to pay attention to what brand you order and feed in good quality stuff. But idk. You’re right that they’re fiddly AF and I’m just used to it. If they could solve those problems it would surely help adoption.
      - 8note 6y ago
        This feels like the filament should come with a barcode that tells the printer all the requirements
        TaylorAlexander 6y ago
        There’s some printer-specific factors that affect ideal temperature settings. Hot end geometry varies by printer and can affect ideal print temperature. Also they used to often have inaccurate temperature sensing, though that is fixable and perhaps things have improved there. I don’t know how much these factors would affect things, but if the variance across products is too great, filament manufacturers couldn’t solve the problem with pre defined settings. Other factors that affect print quality are: filament diameter consistency (must be very precise), absolute filament diameter (must be known), nozzle wear (changes over time), environmental humidity and air temperature, and air flow. Michigan, Florida, and Arizona might require different settings. And then part geometry matters a lot. Someone up the comment thread mentioned curling. This can happen even with perfect temperature settings if part geometry is not ideal. Once I was totally unable to print a large rectangular part without curling until I replaced the 0.4mm nozzle with a 0.8mm nozzle. The thicker layers eliminated layer delamination that allowed the curling. It really takes a bit of learning and experimentation to get things working sometimes. It’s not a perfect process by any means.
      - garblegarble 6y ago
        >I would love to see automatic print failure detection (with a camera, even a micro camera at the nozzle). You probably already know about it, but Spaghetti Detective is pretty decent at detecting print failures - although as you say it'd be great to have this built in (and more reliable...)
        TaylorAlexander 6y ago
        Hey I didn’t know about that! Seems interesting. Thanks!
  - double0jimb0 6y ago
    There are tons of human-safe SLA resins, the dental industry has been doing this for years. Maybe I misunderstood your point.
    - floatboth 6y ago
      That currently usually means safe after curing, you still have to handle the resin printing process with gloves and (?) ventilation.
  - bazooka_penguin 6y ago
    Theyre generally safe post cure and finishing. But in liquid state and while printing they're not (the curing reaction can give you serious burns if left uncleaned) and the fumes are noxious
  - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
    Body safe resins exist, but they’re $200/liter. I don’t know anything about the chemistry but I remember they said they were “monomer free”. https://www.3dresyns.com/ https://www.3dresyns.com/ But yes, a cheap undeniably safe resin (there’s no MSDS on cheap resins) would be a boon! The sticky toxic mess my SLA printer leaves behind is a real issue.
intpx 6y ago
newer stepper drivers have dramatically reduced noise. There have also been some pretty dramatic speed improvements made with newer motion control systems like CoreXY and Delta. its still several orders of magnitude faster and cheaper than sending a schematic out to a traditional manufacturing prototyping shop, at least for parts that are appropriate for this particular method of manufacturing
- imtringued 6y ago
  Yeah, just shipping alone takes longer than 3d printing.
jstanley 6y ago
Desktop 3d printing gives ~everyone the ability to have their CAD models manufactured into parts, practically for free, and with same-day delivery (for most things). IMO it is a stunning success if your biggest pain point is around the delivery time of the parts. (Not necessarily disagreeing with you - it would be better if the parts were made faster - just lending my perspective).
- testcase_delta 6y ago
  I learned CAD last year for work and my prototype turnaround times went from weeks to days to same day. Truly game changing for me. I can iterate an idea 5 times faster at least, not to mention hundreds of times cheaper (in some cases $800 part down to ~$5 part) Even faster would be better, but print speed often isn't the bottleneck, solving engineering problems often is. That said, of course faster would be better.
  - jstanley 6y ago
    What do you do for a living? I am purely a hobbyist, I have a bit of CAD experience and think I would be interested to do CAD professionally but have no idea where to start.
    - testcase_delta 6y ago
      Hi, sorry just saw this today. I'm self taught and invent things that I sell myself, so I'm not really sure about what getting into CAD for a larger business looks like.
Shermanium 6y ago
"do you want done it quick, good, or cheap? pick 2"
- juliushuijnk 6y ago
  Pretends that there is some sort of achieved optimum and you can only move to other optimum (at the cost of current gain), while often a different approach can very much both improve speed, quality and price. It's just something nobody explored yet (in the proper way).
btbuildem 6y ago
The noise depends on the printer I suppose. The Prusa MK3i is really quiet. My main gripe is with the weakness along layer lines.
Ancapistani 6y ago
How fast are you looking for? Most consumer FDM printers are using 0.4mm nozzles. I've found that 0.6mm is more suitable for general use, and that cuts print time by ~50% - it lays down 50% more material, which accounts for a 33% reduction, but the fact that it results in fewer discrete motions accounts for the rest. When I'm printing something bigger than, say, 100mm^3, I switch out to a 1.0mm nozzle. Larger objects generally don't require such fine detail in all dimensions. As for noise, my primary printer is a modified Creative3D Elf CoreXY, and it sits about 5' from my computer. It's quiet enough that it doesn't interrupt my flow. TMC2209 drivers and StealthChop go a long way.

Rather than more effective, I'd wish 3D printing were faster. My main grip with 3D printing stuff is the time it takes - and, depending on the printer, the noise it makes.

delecti 6y ago

SLA printers are considerably faster and quieter, but the resins used are also much less safe than a spool of PLA (noxious fumes, gloves requried), and the post processing is more of a hurdle. I think FDM is already incredibly fast though, considering the achievable quality, precision, and ease of creating a single instance of something.

sircastor 6y ago
I think a novel resin that was safe for humans and safely disposable/biodegradable would be huge transformationally for home 3D printing. That might get the speed to a point where the average person would tolerate one.
- derekp7 6y ago
  The printers also need to get less fiddly for the average person. Things like setting the bed temperature, print head temp, fan speed, etc and watching the first couple layers to make sure they don't curl up on you. And those settings change with different brands of filament, and it is hard to tell which one to change and in which direction.
  - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
    They sell printers which “solve” that problem by locking you in to one type of filament. I would love to see automatic print failure detection (with a camera, even a micro camera at the nozzle). Figuring out the correct settings for unknown plastic seems like it would be hard to solve, but perhaps there’s some base material properties that could be determined automatically which might help. I’ve noticed that the Prusa 3D printer software has a sizable database of filament brands in its material settings section. I’d be curious how foolproof those settings all are for each brand of filament. But of course a manufacturer could change formulation at any time... I solve this problem by only buying one of two brands and keeping custom settings for them. I started my career in CNC machining. People always thought that meant software did everything for me, but no I had to choose tool sizes, spindle RPM, feed rates, depth of cut, etc. The CNC is not a magic machine that makes parts for you, it’s a tool. So I guess I’m a bit biased for thinking that current 3D printers are super useful tools that require a certain amount of operator competency. You cannot put any random filament in and expect good results, and actually that might be a hard problem to solve on the back end. Much easier to pay attention to what brand you order and feed in good quality stuff. But idk. You’re right that they’re fiddly AF and I’m just used to it. If they could solve those problems it would surely help adoption.
    - 8note 6y ago
      This feels like the filament should come with a barcode that tells the printer all the requirements
      - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
        There’s some printer-specific factors that affect ideal temperature settings. Hot end geometry varies by printer and can affect ideal print temperature. Also they used to often have inaccurate temperature sensing, though that is fixable and perhaps things have improved there. I don’t know how much these factors would affect things, but if the variance across products is too great, filament manufacturers couldn’t solve the problem with pre defined settings. Other factors that affect print quality are: filament diameter consistency (must be very precise), absolute filament diameter (must be known), nozzle wear (changes over time), environmental humidity and air temperature, and air flow. Michigan, Florida, and Arizona might require different settings. And then part geometry matters a lot. Someone up the comment thread mentioned curling. This can happen even with perfect temperature settings if part geometry is not ideal. Once I was totally unable to print a large rectangular part without curling until I replaced the 0.4mm nozzle with a 0.8mm nozzle. The thicker layers eliminated layer delamination that allowed the curling. It really takes a bit of learning and experimentation to get things working sometimes. It’s not a perfect process by any means.
    - garblegarble 6y ago
      >I would love to see automatic print failure detection (with a camera, even a micro camera at the nozzle). You probably already know about it, but Spaghetti Detective is pretty decent at detecting print failures - although as you say it'd be great to have this built in (and more reliable...)
      - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
        Hey I didn’t know about that! Seems interesting. Thanks!
- double0jimb0 6y ago
  There are tons of human-safe SLA resins, the dental industry has been doing this for years. Maybe I misunderstood your point.
  - floatboth 6y ago
    That currently usually means safe after curing, you still have to handle the resin printing process with gloves and (?) ventilation.
- bazooka_penguin 6y ago
  Theyre generally safe post cure and finishing. But in liquid state and while printing they're not (the curing reaction can give you serious burns if left uncleaned) and the fumes are noxious
- TaylorAlexander 6y ago
  Body safe resins exist, but they’re $200/liter. I don’t know anything about the chemistry but I remember they said they were “monomer free”. https://www.3dresyns.com/ https://www.3dresyns.com/ But yes, a cheap undeniably safe resin (there’s no MSDS on cheap resins) would be a boon! The sticky toxic mess my SLA printer leaves behind is a real issue.

intpx 6y ago

newer stepper drivers have dramatically reduced noise. There have also been some pretty dramatic speed improvements made with newer motion control systems like CoreXY and Delta. its still several orders of magnitude faster and cheaper than sending a schematic out to a traditional manufacturing prototyping shop, at least for parts that are appropriate for this particular method of manufacturing

imtringued 6y ago
Yeah, just shipping alone takes longer than 3d printing.

jstanley 6y ago

Desktop 3d printing gives ~everyone the ability to have their CAD models manufactured into parts, practically for free, and with same-day delivery (for most things). IMO it is a stunning success if your biggest pain point is around the delivery time of the parts. (Not necessarily disagreeing with you - it would be better if the parts were made faster - just lending my perspective).

testcase_delta 6y ago
I learned CAD last year for work and my prototype turnaround times went from weeks to days to same day. Truly game changing for me. I can iterate an idea 5 times faster at least, not to mention hundreds of times cheaper (in some cases $800 part down to ~$5 part) Even faster would be better, but print speed often isn't the bottleneck, solving engineering problems often is. That said, of course faster would be better.
- jstanley 6y ago
  What do you do for a living? I am purely a hobbyist, I have a bit of CAD experience and think I would be interested to do CAD professionally but have no idea where to start.
  - testcase_delta 6y ago
    Hi, sorry just saw this today. I'm self taught and invent things that I sell myself, so I'm not really sure about what getting into CAD for a larger business looks like.

Shermanium 6y ago

"do you want done it quick, good, or cheap? pick 2"

juliushuijnk 6y ago
Pretends that there is some sort of achieved optimum and you can only move to other optimum (at the cost of current gain), while often a different approach can very much both improve speed, quality and price. It's just something nobody explored yet (in the proper way).

btbuildem 6y ago

The noise depends on the printer I suppose. The Prusa MK3i is really quiet. My main gripe is with the weakness along layer lines.

Ancapistani 6y ago

How fast are you looking for? Most consumer FDM printers are using 0.4mm nozzles. I've found that 0.6mm is more suitable for general use, and that cuts print time by ~50% - it lays down 50% more material, which accounts for a 33% reduction, but the fact that it results in fewer discrete motions accounts for the rest. When I'm printing something bigger than, say, 100mm^3, I switch out to a 1.0mm nozzle. Larger objects generally don't require such fine detail in all dimensions. As for noise, my primary printer is a modified Creative3D Elf CoreXY, and it sits about 5' from my computer. It's quiet enough that it doesn't interrupt my flow. TMC2209 drivers and StealthChop go a long way.