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You're getting free speech wrong, at least by european standards. In Sweden or in France, you can certainly discuss the topics you proposed without risking pris

You're getting free speech wrong, at least by european standards. In Sweden or in France, you can certainly discuss the topics you proposed without risking prison or worse. But free speech applies to other people as well, who are equally free to refute your opinion. Free speech is not censorship merely because it stops at other people's basic rights. That's merely finding a balance between fundamental rights that may come in conflict. Russia and China do not have free speech. If you say the wrong thing there, you go to prison (or worse). That's censorship.

collyw 6y ago
Conversations about Muslim integration are sensitive enough that you wouldn't mention them in your workplace in fear of being labelled racist and possible repercussions. Not quite illegal, but its going that direction.
- eropple 6y ago
  "If I say shitty racist things that others correctly perceive as shitty and racist people won't want to associate with me" isn't even remotely comparable to the state putting you in jail and it requires an incredibly easily bruised sense of self to suggest it.
  - collyw 6y ago
    Why do you instantly assume that anything said is "shitty and racist"? You seem to be doing the kind of thing that I am referring to - nothing in my comment was racist, but you are doing your best to imply that it is. And potentially loosing your job is quite a big deal for most people. That's what happened to James Damore for bringing up the wrong subject.
    - Aeolun 6y ago
      Indeed, but you might note that happened in the US, and not Europe. Not saying you think muslims are dangerous is at the same courtesy level as not telling your coworker his hair looks like shit every day. Nobody is going to (immediately) fire you for it, but people will definitely start avoiding you if you do it to an obnoxious degree.
      - LocalH 6y ago
        I think it’s interesting that people treat Islam as closer to an ethnicity than a religion. Nobody on the left is clamoring to fight against “Christophobia”, in fact most of them actively mock religion, unless it’s Islam. I honestly don’t think organized religion should be protected from criticism, because to be fair you have to treat all religions the same. Even Scientology.
        eropple 6y ago
        It's almost as if what you describe as mockery of Christianity is largely punching up at a secure and itself mildly- to significantly-onerous institution in the United States and that defense of Islamic people is an example of punching-down xenophobia aimed at individuals that's dressed thinly as "criticism of the religion". If Christians were targeted by violence on American streets after 9/11 (as they were--along with, you know, completely unrelated Sikhs), "the left" would say that's wrong, too. And the reason that the status quo with regards to anti-Islam sentiment is what it is is because Americans in a whole lot of places genuinely haven't progressed much beyond that mindset. There's a difference of kind here.

collyw 6y ago

Conversations about Muslim integration are sensitive enough that you wouldn't mention them in your workplace in fear of being labelled racist and possible repercussions. Not quite illegal, but its going that direction.

eropple 6y ago
"If I say shitty racist things that others correctly perceive as shitty and racist people won't want to associate with me" isn't even remotely comparable to the state putting you in jail and it requires an incredibly easily bruised sense of self to suggest it.
- collyw 6y ago
  Why do you instantly assume that anything said is "shitty and racist"? You seem to be doing the kind of thing that I am referring to - nothing in my comment was racist, but you are doing your best to imply that it is. And potentially loosing your job is quite a big deal for most people. That's what happened to James Damore for bringing up the wrong subject.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Indeed, but you might note that happened in the US, and not Europe. Not saying you think muslims are dangerous is at the same courtesy level as not telling your coworker his hair looks like shit every day. Nobody is going to (immediately) fire you for it, but people will definitely start avoiding you if you do it to an obnoxious degree.
    - LocalH 6y ago
      I think it’s interesting that people treat Islam as closer to an ethnicity than a religion. Nobody on the left is clamoring to fight against “Christophobia”, in fact most of them actively mock religion, unless it’s Islam. I honestly don’t think organized religion should be protected from criticism, because to be fair you have to treat all religions the same. Even Scientology.
      - eropple 6y ago
        It's almost as if what you describe as mockery of Christianity is largely punching up at a secure and itself mildly- to significantly-onerous institution in the United States and that defense of Islamic people is an example of punching-down xenophobia aimed at individuals that's dressed thinly as "criticism of the religion". If Christians were targeted by violence on American streets after 9/11 (as they were--along with, you know, completely unrelated Sikhs), "the left" would say that's wrong, too. And the reason that the status quo with regards to anti-Islam sentiment is what it is is because Americans in a whole lot of places genuinely haven't progressed much beyond that mindset. There's a difference of kind here.