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Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current stat

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

zpeti 6y ago
The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Yeah. Accurate.
- herbstein 6y ago
  Well, the US does have the concentration camps at the border where forced surgeries and sterilizations are being performed.
  - frequentnapper 6y ago
    On a massive scale? Proof?
  - PopeDotNinja 6y ago
    And the entire prison system.
  - chaostheory 6y ago
    Camps yes, but if you're going to be technical, it's actually spread through out the United States and not just at the border and it is bad when you compare it to other developed countries. Forced surgeries and sterilizations? For a claim like that, you're going to have to cite a credible source. As imperfect as we are, we're not as bad as China.
    - jskdvsksnb 6y ago
      > A report claims women in immigration centers are being given unnecessary procedures that can leave them unable to conceive. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/21/unwanted-hysterectomy-allegations-ice-georgia-immigration https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/21/unwanted-hys...
      - chaostheory 6y ago
        That’s disturbing. Still, unlike in China there are lawmakers publicly trying to stop it, and we are free to speak & write about it and say that it’s wrong
        akoncius 6y ago
        attempt is not same as elimination of problem. probably in China there are people who protest against persecution of uighurs too, but we don't see it.
        chaostheory 6y ago
        Yes and that’s a problem. The way to fix it is not part of the system and that’s a major issue. You need freedom of speech at a very minimum. China does not have that which is why “no one sees it”
  - jiuahweruihawi 6y ago
    Those "concentration camps" (a ridiculous misuse of the term) only exist because people of all colors from all across the world are clamoring to move to the US for a better life. Someone had better get them the memo that the US is a tyrannical racist hellhole.
- learnstats2 6y ago
  When is it called a "prison" and when is it called a "concentration camp"?
  - 542354234235 6y ago
    When the people did not break the law and were seeking legal asylum and when the President openly admits that imprisoning them and forcibly separating the children was to punish and discourage the completely legal asylum seekers. That’s the difference. > the children at a facility in Clint, Texas, were sleeping on concrete floors and being denied soap and toothpaste. They described “children as young as 7 and 8, many of them wearing clothes caked with snot and tears … caring for infants they’ve just met.” A visiting doctor called the detention centers “torture facilities.” At least seven children have died in U.S. custody in the past year, compared with none in the 10 years prior. More than 11,000* children are now being held by the U.S. government on any given day. > Chris Rickerd, a policy counsel at the ACLU. “But this all-encompassing skepticism of asylum seekers fleeing violence—justifying cruel treatment, justifying changes in the law, and justifying overcrowding to the point of unsafe and deadly conditions—[is] of a scale and a type that we haven’t seen before.” > The Trump administration has previously deliberately inflicted suffering on children to deter illegal immigration, with its use of family separation. It has altered immigration policy and the asylum process so as to force the authorities to hold migrants, whether they have properly sought asylum at a port of entry or crossed illegally [1] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-facilities/593239/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-fac...
  - arethuza 6y ago
    I believe the general definition of a "concentration camp" is: "A camp where persons are confined, usually without hearings and typically under harsh conditions, often as a result of their membership in a group which the government has identified as dangerous or undesirable." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment
  - akoncius 6y ago
    sad part in this question is "there is not much difference" because everything depends on what laws were broken to be put inside of that institution. you may have law which makes being muslim illegal and put in jail. and that jail will become "concentration camp", but only if you view it from outside of that country.
- meiraleal 6y ago
  > The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Yes, they are called ghettos. > Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Yes, it's called the prison system. > Where journalists repeteadly disappear? not only journalists, but political leaders, rappers, pastors, etc. > Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Well, that's the easiest one. The US is waging war against 3 or 4 African countries right now.
- powerapple 6y ago
  Probably because US just shoot them... not many native Americans, and the number of black lives are reducing when you white asses shoot them.
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    As a minority in America I gotta say this is probably the most racist comment I have seen on HN. There is no need to call anybody out on their genetics. Its almost like people forget that absolutely nobody chooses to be born as a specified skin color or culture. Not every single "white" American is racist. That is more than absurd. Racism exists in other countries as well, we are so quick to forget Rwanda and other genocides.
- Fricken 6y ago
  The US has 2 million people locked in cages. If you seek the freedom to be locked in a cage, America is clearly the better country. Of course, America has a much higher crime rate. Those who enjoy the freedom of getting murdered are better off in the USA. The crackdown in Xinjiang is a response to terrorist attacks. Both America and China are pretty reliable for grossly disproportionate responses to terrorist attacks that ruin the lives of millions.
  - wolfhumble 6y ago
    Where do you find confirmed information that 2 million people are locked in cages?
    - dr_dshiv 6y ago
      2.3 million, from Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#:~:text=As%20of%202016%2C%202.3%20million,the%20world's%209.8%20million%20prisoners https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_....
      - wolfhumble 6y ago
        Thanks for the link. That 2 million people seem to be arbitrarily thrown into cages – from what I can gather from the parents statement – threw me off.
- jskdvsksnb 6y ago
  > The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? What do you think the school-to-prison pipeline and legal prison labour amount to? Black, brown and native people being forced into slavery and imprisonment. Not to mention ICE detention camps. > Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Ever had to get a background check for a job? To rent a house? The only reason this is so visible in China is because it's foreign to us. We grew up with redlining and ghettos and mandatory minimums, so we don't even realize it's a different implementation of the same system
- Miner49er 6y ago
  > concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants Maybe not to the scale of China, but basically. They are prison, reservations, and immigration detention centers. > Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Again, not as bad in the US, probably, but we do have a credit system that can make it much more difficult for certain people to have a place to live, buy a car, or get a job. Add on the felony system, and we also take away their right to vote, and again make it harder for them to get good jobs. Finally, we even have a no-fly list. > Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Does that happen in China? A quick Google search didn't bring up much. I do agree that the US has more freedom of speech. > Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? We have and still regularly do this with treaties we made with Native American tribes.
- eecc 6y ago
  Not to defend China, but the restitution of HK was agreed since long ago. And it would be naive to believe China wouldn’t have started to annex the city back, the last symbol of British colonial domination and the defeat of the Opium War. Of course there’s no winner here, only losers...
  - SteveSmith16384 6y ago
    > it would be naive to believe China wouldn’t have started to annex the city back Does that make it okay then?
    - eecc 6y ago
      > Of course there’s no winner here, only losers
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system While not concentration camps, the US still does have residential schools where they put Native American children into Christian foster homes and educate them to follow our political system in public schools. Plus the church makes millions doing it. Certainly better, but still pretty terrible. > Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? The "Collateral Murder" is video evidence of the US killing journalists during their illegal invasion of a nation. You can disagree with my evaluation of those events, but it's hard to see how we have the moral high ground here.
colechristensen 6y ago
Yes, the US is significantly better even if far from innocent.
chaostheory 6y ago
As an immigrant who's experienced and seen both countries, yes, and that's with the US's glaring imperfections. We at least are brave enough to openly admit our faults, and it's in our history books and not whitewashed. imo that's a key step. Nothing else is possible if you can't admit that there's a problem, and getting to this step is nearly impossible without free speech In addition to freedom of speech, we also have freedom of assembly. Combined both freedoms allow our citizens to both bring awareness to the problem(s) and to try to stop it. Is this perfect? No, but it's still better than China (at least on that front)
- powerapple 6y ago
  No Iraqi is comparing US to Iraq. I don't understand why there is always a contest between US and China. US is a developed country, and China is a developing country. It is not a beauty contest. Also there does have to be only one winner. Maybe, just maybe, there is no need to mess up another country.
  - chaostheory 6y ago
    You have a point, but China and the US are rival countries with ideologies that aren’t completely compatible
  - deesep 6y ago
    China is the second richest country in the world. It has the most billionaires, and has experienced steady economic growth for decades. It baffles me that people still classify them as a developing nation.
    - free_rms 6y ago
      Now do per capita and income inequality. Shanghai is modern. Huge parts of the country are developing.
      - tupputuppu 6y ago
        As an econ major, it seems to me that you're only getting downvoted because HN is a typical place full of engineers with little econ understanding but lots of opinion. Whether a country is developed or not is defined based on their standard of living per capita, not their absolute size. A country with a billion poor people has completely different social, demographic, industrial and political drivers than a country of 300m high I come people.
steve_g 6y ago
I think the US is better. Our last ethnicity-based concentration camps occurred 75 years ago, and have now been repudiated by all branches of government. And we never used the prisoners as organ banks.
- the-dude 6y ago
  I might be mistaken, but I thought Guantanamo Bay is still operational.
benlumen 6y ago
This is an incredibly low-information perspective that's got to go. China is an authoritarian single-party state where citizens have no liberty, no justice, no recourse. It couldn't be more different to the US. The ongoing demoralization of the US like this is outright sister.
- whoevercares 6y ago
  > where citizens have no liberty, no justice, no recourse Disagree if you mean in general sense. You need to define it in far more details. I guess you mean “when their interest conflicts with the government”. Ask common Chinese citizens who live a non-activist life if they agreed that they are slaves and don’t have any of those rights
- hobofan 6y ago
  The two-party (with not a huge amount of difference between them) system of the US, with a sitting president that is toying with the idea of staying president for life doesn't really paint a picture of "couldn't be more different" for an outsider.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  While I have no real clue about China, never been there, I don't believe that because: [1] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+highway+built+around+house&t=ffsb&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+highway+built+around+house&t... and many more cases like [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)#Nail_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)#Nail_hou... How is that possible at all with no liberty, no justice, no recourse ?
rayiner 6y ago
This is absurd. As a brown immigrant Muslim looking person, not only do I feel safer in the US than I would in China, I feel safer here than in France. Americans aren’t frothing at the mouth to ban Islamic religious clothing while schoolgirls in France have to remove their headscarves.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >This is absurd. As a brown immigrant Muslim looking person, not only do I feel safer in the US than I would in China, I feel safer here than in France. Do muslim looking persons in muslim countries feel equally well protected from America? >Americans aren’t frothing at the mouth to ban Islamic religious clothing while schoolgirls in France have to remove their headscarves. That sounds like more progressive. Do women's rights in the West stop when it comes to muslim women -- where we "allow" them to wear headscarves lest they get beaten up by their fathers/spouses?
  - oa335 6y ago
    Every Muslim woman I know (hundreds) who wear hijab wear it without the threat of violence from their family. It's extremely common amongst the people I know for some women in the family to wear hijab and some to not. It's not as big of a deal as non Muslims seem to think, and it's frankly offensive that you assume that people would only make that choice due to threats of violence.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >Every Muslim woman I know (hundreds) who wear hijab wear it without the threat of violence from their family You'd be surprised. Plus, it's not like something they'll admit openly. Second, there's also internalized violence/indoctrination, from a young age. There is of course voluntary choice too -- even western women who have converted and adopted wearing it (in which case there's no youthful indoctrination). But for tons of muslim women in Europe, which see their non-muslim friends not having to wear any, it's imposed by their families and communities.
    - rayiner 6y ago
sasaf5 6y ago
Yes, just the freedom of talking about the issue already makes the US much better than China.
- whoevercares 6y ago
  That’s the key. Western people VALUE this freedom of speech A LOT, but it’s not a prevailing concern for even most Chinese citizens.Years of enlightenment and education are needed to raise that awareness. Sadly CCP knows how to prevent you do it. Imagine 0.01% of Chinese population have the awareness and willing to fight for it, that’ll be a huge deal already.
  - sasaf5 6y ago
    > 0.01% of Chinese population I look at Taiwan with great hopes.
    - whoevercares 6y ago
      Yeah unfortunately they are already effectively independent on a island. And somehow mainland people don’t admire Taiwan people that much
jiuahweruihawi 6y ago
Have you ever spent significant time outside the US?
jiuahweruihawi 6y ago
The fact that you are able to make this claim online (even anonymously) without any fear for your personal safety instantly proves that your claim is false.
- Miner49er 6y ago
  I actually do feel a little fear whenever I make a comment like this online. That someday it will come back to get me. The United States government could easily bring back Mcarthyism anytime and start rounding up people with the wrong political views. It's clearly worse in China, but I do feel fear, even in the US.
  - tupputuppu 6y ago
    So you think the US is as bad as China because you fear the US might become as bad as China?
ericmay 6y ago
Somehow, someway people have been so caught up in some media firestorm that they actually think that the United States of America “does the same” as China. When did China last have a Uighur dictator? (Since it’s a dictatorship I mean I guess they don’t really care about having representation of minority groups in positions of power). Does China have schemes to help minorities in China attend college? Are there advocate groups representing Uighu interests in Beijing? Do they have any history or education in Chinese textbooks about the Uighur or other minorities? In the US we did a lot of bad stuff (we all benefit from it now, so every single American born today is as guilty as any other) but at least we actually acknowledge it! How many immigrants of any sort does China allow to fully immigrate into China on a yearly basis? Can a Syrian apply for a visa or move to China as a refugee? Why are some Chinese racist against Africans and why is that overlooked? [1], [2], [3] Does the US have problems? Yep. Even if the US “was the same”, last I checked we have protests and people campaigning to fix our issues. So even if you wanted to make the outlandish claim that “the U.S. is the same”, you can easily look around and see that at a minimum we highlight problems in our society. Who is running against Xi to stop the genocide of Uighur Muslims? The only thing that makes sense to me here is social media. You (not you specifically) see that first outrage article and then down the scrolling and clicking hole you go until you’re just addicted to being outraged. I put what I call America-denialism on a similar level as I do anti-vaxers, flat earth era, 9/11 truthers, or Trump deep-state conspiracy theorists. It’s just another wacky idea that you get from extended periods of time going down social media rabbit holes. [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-racism-africans-china/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-racism-africans-chi... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/china-fails-to-stop-racism-against-africans-over-covid-19 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/china-fails-to... [3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/15/chinas-racism-is-wrecking-its-success-in-africa/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/15/chinas-racism-is-wrecki...

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

zpeti 6y ago

The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Yeah. Accurate.

herbstein 6y ago
Well, the US does have the concentration camps at the border where forced surgeries and sterilizations are being performed.
- frequentnapper 6y ago
  On a massive scale? Proof?
- PopeDotNinja 6y ago
  And the entire prison system.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  Camps yes, but if you're going to be technical, it's actually spread through out the United States and not just at the border and it is bad when you compare it to other developed countries. Forced surgeries and sterilizations? For a claim like that, you're going to have to cite a credible source. As imperfect as we are, we're not as bad as China.
  - jskdvsksnb 6y ago
    > A report claims women in immigration centers are being given unnecessary procedures that can leave them unable to conceive. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/21/unwanted-hysterectomy-allegations-ice-georgia-immigration https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/21/unwanted-hys...
    - chaostheory 6y ago
      That’s disturbing. Still, unlike in China there are lawmakers publicly trying to stop it, and we are free to speak & write about it and say that it’s wrong
      - akoncius 6y ago
        attempt is not same as elimination of problem. probably in China there are people who protest against persecution of uighurs too, but we don't see it.
        chaostheory 6y ago
        Yes and that’s a problem. The way to fix it is not part of the system and that’s a major issue. You need freedom of speech at a very minimum. China does not have that which is why “no one sees it”
- jiuahweruihawi 6y ago
  Those "concentration camps" (a ridiculous misuse of the term) only exist because people of all colors from all across the world are clamoring to move to the US for a better life. Someone had better get them the memo that the US is a tyrannical racist hellhole.
learnstats2 6y ago
When is it called a "prison" and when is it called a "concentration camp"?
- 542354234235 6y ago
  When the people did not break the law and were seeking legal asylum and when the President openly admits that imprisoning them and forcibly separating the children was to punish and discourage the completely legal asylum seekers. That’s the difference. > the children at a facility in Clint, Texas, were sleeping on concrete floors and being denied soap and toothpaste. They described “children as young as 7 and 8, many of them wearing clothes caked with snot and tears … caring for infants they’ve just met.” A visiting doctor called the detention centers “torture facilities.” At least seven children have died in U.S. custody in the past year, compared with none in the 10 years prior. More than 11,000* children are now being held by the U.S. government on any given day. > Chris Rickerd, a policy counsel at the ACLU. “But this all-encompassing skepticism of asylum seekers fleeing violence—justifying cruel treatment, justifying changes in the law, and justifying overcrowding to the point of unsafe and deadly conditions—[is] of a scale and a type that we haven’t seen before.” > The Trump administration has previously deliberately inflicted suffering on children to deter illegal immigration, with its use of family separation. It has altered immigration policy and the asylum process so as to force the authorities to hold migrants, whether they have properly sought asylum at a port of entry or crossed illegally [1] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-facilities/593239/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-fac...
- arethuza 6y ago
  I believe the general definition of a "concentration camp" is: "A camp where persons are confined, usually without hearings and typically under harsh conditions, often as a result of their membership in a group which the government has identified as dangerous or undesirable." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment
- akoncius 6y ago
  sad part in this question is "there is not much difference" because everything depends on what laws were broken to be put inside of that institution. you may have law which makes being muslim illegal and put in jail. and that jail will become "concentration camp", but only if you view it from outside of that country.
meiraleal 6y ago
> The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Yes, they are called ghettos. > Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Yes, it's called the prison system. > Where journalists repeteadly disappear? not only journalists, but political leaders, rappers, pastors, etc. > Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Well, that's the easiest one. The US is waging war against 3 or 4 African countries right now.
powerapple 6y ago
Probably because US just shoot them... not many native Americans, and the number of black lives are reducing when you white asses shoot them.
- giancarlostoro 6y ago
  As a minority in America I gotta say this is probably the most racist comment I have seen on HN. There is no need to call anybody out on their genetics. Its almost like people forget that absolutely nobody chooses to be born as a specified skin color or culture. Not every single "white" American is racist. That is more than absurd. Racism exists in other countries as well, we are so quick to forget Rwanda and other genocides.
Fricken 6y ago
The US has 2 million people locked in cages. If you seek the freedom to be locked in a cage, America is clearly the better country. Of course, America has a much higher crime rate. Those who enjoy the freedom of getting murdered are better off in the USA. The crackdown in Xinjiang is a response to terrorist attacks. Both America and China are pretty reliable for grossly disproportionate responses to terrorist attacks that ruin the lives of millions.
- wolfhumble 6y ago
  Where do you find confirmed information that 2 million people are locked in cages?
  - dr_dshiv 6y ago
    2.3 million, from Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#:~:text=As%20of%202016%2C%202.3%20million,the%20world's%209.8%20million%20prisoners https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_....
    - wolfhumble 6y ago
      Thanks for the link. That 2 million people seem to be arbitrarily thrown into cages – from what I can gather from the parents statement – threw me off.
jskdvsksnb 6y ago
> The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? What do you think the school-to-prison pipeline and legal prison labour amount to? Black, brown and native people being forced into slavery and imprisonment. Not to mention ICE detention camps. > Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Ever had to get a background check for a job? To rent a house? The only reason this is so visible in China is because it's foreign to us. We grew up with redlining and ghettos and mandatory minimums, so we don't even realize it's a different implementation of the same system
Miner49er 6y ago
> concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants Maybe not to the scale of China, but basically. They are prison, reservations, and immigration detention centers. > Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Again, not as bad in the US, probably, but we do have a credit system that can make it much more difficult for certain people to have a place to live, buy a car, or get a job. Add on the felony system, and we also take away their right to vote, and again make it harder for them to get good jobs. Finally, we even have a no-fly list. > Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Does that happen in China? A quick Google search didn't bring up much. I do agree that the US has more freedom of speech. > Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? We have and still regularly do this with treaties we made with Native American tribes.
eecc 6y ago
Not to defend China, but the restitution of HK was agreed since long ago. And it would be naive to believe China wouldn’t have started to annex the city back, the last symbol of British colonial domination and the defeat of the Opium War. Of course there’s no winner here, only losers...
- SteveSmith16384 6y ago
  > it would be naive to believe China wouldn’t have started to annex the city back Does that make it okay then?
  - eecc 6y ago
    > Of course there’s no winner here, only losers
boomboomsubban 6y ago
>The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system While not concentration camps, the US still does have residential schools where they put Native American children into Christian foster homes and educate them to follow our political system in public schools. Plus the church makes millions doing it. Certainly better, but still pretty terrible. > Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? The "Collateral Murder" is video evidence of the US killing journalists during their illegal invasion of a nation. You can disagree with my evaluation of those events, but it's hard to see how we have the moral high ground here.

colechristensen 6y ago

Yes, the US is significantly better even if far from innocent.

chaostheory 6y ago

As an immigrant who's experienced and seen both countries, yes, and that's with the US's glaring imperfections. We at least are brave enough to openly admit our faults, and it's in our history books and not whitewashed. imo that's a key step. Nothing else is possible if you can't admit that there's a problem, and getting to this step is nearly impossible without free speech In addition to freedom of speech, we also have freedom of assembly. Combined both freedoms allow our citizens to both bring awareness to the problem(s) and to try to stop it. Is this perfect? No, but it's still better than China (at least on that front)

powerapple 6y ago
No Iraqi is comparing US to Iraq. I don't understand why there is always a contest between US and China. US is a developed country, and China is a developing country. It is not a beauty contest. Also there does have to be only one winner. Maybe, just maybe, there is no need to mess up another country.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  You have a point, but China and the US are rival countries with ideologies that aren’t completely compatible
- deesep 6y ago
  China is the second richest country in the world. It has the most billionaires, and has experienced steady economic growth for decades. It baffles me that people still classify them as a developing nation.
  - free_rms 6y ago
    Now do per capita and income inequality. Shanghai is modern. Huge parts of the country are developing.
    - tupputuppu 6y ago
      As an econ major, it seems to me that you're only getting downvoted because HN is a typical place full of engineers with little econ understanding but lots of opinion. Whether a country is developed or not is defined based on their standard of living per capita, not their absolute size. A country with a billion poor people has completely different social, demographic, industrial and political drivers than a country of 300m high I come people.

steve_g 6y ago

I think the US is better. Our last ethnicity-based concentration camps occurred 75 years ago, and have now been repudiated by all branches of government. And we never used the prisoners as organ banks.

the-dude 6y ago
I might be mistaken, but I thought Guantanamo Bay is still operational.

benlumen 6y ago

This is an incredibly low-information perspective that's got to go. China is an authoritarian single-party state where citizens have no liberty, no justice, no recourse. It couldn't be more different to the US. The ongoing demoralization of the US like this is outright sister.

whoevercares 6y ago
> where citizens have no liberty, no justice, no recourse Disagree if you mean in general sense. You need to define it in far more details. I guess you mean “when their interest conflicts with the government”. Ask common Chinese citizens who live a non-activist life if they agreed that they are slaves and don’t have any of those rights
hobofan 6y ago
The two-party (with not a huge amount of difference between them) system of the US, with a sitting president that is toying with the idea of staying president for life doesn't really paint a picture of "couldn't be more different" for an outsider.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
While I have no real clue about China, never been there, I don't believe that because: [1] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+highway+built+around+house&t=ffsb&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+highway+built+around+house&t... and many more cases like [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)#Nail_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)#Nail_hou... How is that possible at all with no liberty, no justice, no recourse ?

rayiner 6y ago

This is absurd. As a brown immigrant Muslim looking person, not only do I feel safer in the US than I would in China, I feel safer here than in France. Americans aren’t frothing at the mouth to ban Islamic religious clothing while schoolgirls in France have to remove their headscarves.

coldtea 6y ago
>This is absurd. As a brown immigrant Muslim looking person, not only do I feel safer in the US than I would in China, I feel safer here than in France. Do muslim looking persons in muslim countries feel equally well protected from America? >Americans aren’t frothing at the mouth to ban Islamic religious clothing while schoolgirls in France have to remove their headscarves. That sounds like more progressive. Do women's rights in the West stop when it comes to muslim women -- where we "allow" them to wear headscarves lest they get beaten up by their fathers/spouses?
- oa335 6y ago
  Every Muslim woman I know (hundreds) who wear hijab wear it without the threat of violence from their family. It's extremely common amongst the people I know for some women in the family to wear hijab and some to not. It's not as big of a deal as non Muslims seem to think, and it's frankly offensive that you assume that people would only make that choice due to threats of violence.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >Every Muslim woman I know (hundreds) who wear hijab wear it without the threat of violence from their family You'd be surprised. Plus, it's not like something they'll admit openly. Second, there's also internalized violence/indoctrination, from a young age. There is of course voluntary choice too -- even western women who have converted and adopted wearing it (in which case there's no youthful indoctrination). But for tons of muslim women in Europe, which see their non-muslim friends not having to wear any, it's imposed by their families and communities.
  - rayiner 6y ago

sasaf5 6y ago

Yes, just the freedom of talking about the issue already makes the US much better than China.

whoevercares 6y ago
That’s the key. Western people VALUE this freedom of speech A LOT, but it’s not a prevailing concern for even most Chinese citizens.Years of enlightenment and education are needed to raise that awareness. Sadly CCP knows how to prevent you do it. Imagine 0.01% of Chinese population have the awareness and willing to fight for it, that’ll be a huge deal already.
- sasaf5 6y ago
  > 0.01% of Chinese population I look at Taiwan with great hopes.
  - whoevercares 6y ago
    Yeah unfortunately they are already effectively independent on a island. And somehow mainland people don’t admire Taiwan people that much

jiuahweruihawi 6y ago

Have you ever spent significant time outside the US?

jiuahweruihawi 6y ago

The fact that you are able to make this claim online (even anonymously) without any fear for your personal safety instantly proves that your claim is false.

Miner49er 6y ago
I actually do feel a little fear whenever I make a comment like this online. That someday it will come back to get me. The United States government could easily bring back Mcarthyism anytime and start rounding up people with the wrong political views. It's clearly worse in China, but I do feel fear, even in the US.
- tupputuppu 6y ago
  So you think the US is as bad as China because you fear the US might become as bad as China?

ericmay 6y ago

Somehow, someway people have been so caught up in some media firestorm that they actually think that the United States of America “does the same” as China. When did China last have a Uighur dictator? (Since it’s a dictatorship I mean I guess they don’t really care about having representation of minority groups in positions of power). Does China have schemes to help minorities in China attend college? Are there advocate groups representing Uighu interests in Beijing? Do they have any history or education in Chinese textbooks about the Uighur or other minorities? In the US we did a lot of bad stuff (we all benefit from it now, so every single American born today is as guilty as any other) but at least we actually acknowledge it! How many immigrants of any sort does China allow to fully immigrate into China on a yearly basis? Can a Syrian apply for a visa or move to China as a refugee? Why are some Chinese racist against Africans and why is that overlooked? [1], [2], [3] Does the US have problems? Yep. Even if the US “was the same”, last I checked we have protests and people campaigning to fix our issues. So even if you wanted to make the outlandish claim that “the U.S. is the same”, you can easily look around and see that at a minimum we highlight problems in our society. Who is running against Xi to stop the genocide of Uighur Muslims? The only thing that makes sense to me here is social media. You (not you specifically) see that first outrage article and then down the scrolling and clicking hole you go until you’re just addicted to being outraged. I put what I call America-denialism on a similar level as I do anti-vaxers, flat earth era, 9/11 truthers, or Trump deep-state conspiracy theorists. It’s just another wacky idea that you get from extended periods of time going down social media rabbit holes. [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-racism-africans-china/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-racism-africans-chi... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/china-fails-to-stop-racism-against-africans-over-covid-19 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/china-fails-to... [3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/15/chinas-racism-is-wrecking-its-success-in-africa/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/15/chinas-racism-is-wrecki...