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The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

408 points by vincvinc 6y ago

tsjq 6y ago
China appears to have done with Uyghurs, and has moved on to next frontier : Mongols.
- EliRivers 6y ago
  Oh yes, like that exhibition in France that mentioned Ghengis Khan. Can't have that; it goes against the CCCP narrative of the history of China.
  - GauntletWizard 6y ago
    If you haven’t heard of it, like I hadn’t: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/14/french-genghis-khan-exhibit-put-interference-claims/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/14/french-genghis-k...
    - andi999 6y ago
      Thanks. There must be more to this story. Everybody in China knows about the Yuan dynasty (and its origin).
      - GauntletWizard 6y ago
        Today. Today, everyone knows about it. The unpleasant parts of history have a tendency of disappearing. In a hundred years time, we might only remember Xanadu.
  - tsjq 6y ago
    Further, despite the Mongols comprising a good part of the population, China is forcing Chinese language onto them (the Inner Mongolia state) and has begun to gradually phase out their native language.
- math_random 6y ago
  its Tibet now
  - tsjq 6y ago
    Tibet is done.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- sudofail 6y ago
  And after that, Taiwan
- thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
  Or the China-relations zeitgeist only has room for one story at a time and the rest get ignored. It's very hard to know these things deeply when we don't speak the language or understand the history. This story might be the first time readers find out about China caring about Mongols at all
causality0 6y ago
It stands to reason that had Nazi Germany not attacked its neighbors, the rest of the world would have happily stood by and watched them execute their own Jewish/undesirables population with nothing more than some strongly-worded letters and trade sanctions.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  Probably true, although in that case at least the non-German victims would have been spared so the scale of the slaughter would have been reduced.
- PeterisP 6y ago
  Yes, sure, that's the prevailing opinion probably since even before WW2 had ended. Though without attacking neighbours, the scale of Holocaust would be greatly limited, since just a small fraction of all the killed people lived within the borders of pre-war Germany. If we look at all the (many!) genocides of 20th century, it's clear that the world is not going to respond with military intervention as long as you're executing your own 'undesirables' and not attacking your neighbours.
  - deleted 6y ago
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- mlang23 6y ago
  You mean like when tibet was invaded, and the whole world immediately joined forces to stop that. Hmm. I think it is more "what is close to the west is important to the west". People dont count, not even today. Money and economics count. People are born every day. It is a cruel world that claims humanity exists to cloud its own shortcomings. It is sad to watch.
- Flankk 6y ago
  The public knew of work camps but did not know the conditions. It's my understanding the Nazis later turned some of the camps into death camps and attempted to keep that a secret. I believe the war was already underway by then. The world was a very different place as well. Segregation and eugenics were accepted practice back then.
colechristensen 6y ago
Seeing this stated so clearly and prominently in an influential publication brings me hope. I am skeptical though that many people, especially those in the position to make influential choices, especially those who have profit tied up with China, will do anything other than see it and nod.
- DavidSJ 6y ago
  One possibility is that some economic pressure can be brought to bear by a Biden administration, perhaps in concert with other Western countries. Edited to add: This statement is political, but the genocide against Uyghurs is political too, and if we want to hold our leaders accountable to doing something about it, we need to acknowledge facts. Trump had previously indicated he wasn't interested in letting such matters interfere with trade talks. https://www.axios.com/trump-uighur-muslims-sanctions-d4dc86fc-17f4-42bd-bdbd-c30f4d2ffa21.html https://www.axios.com/trump-uighur-muslims-sanctions-d4dc86f...
  - abc-xyz 6y ago
    What exactly did Biden do to stand up to China during the Obama/Biden administration (or throughout his political career)? Here’s an incomplete list of things Trump has done: - He refers to the Wuhan Virus as the China/Chinese Virus (CCP is trying very hard from distancing themselves from responsibility; they won’t even let us into Wuhan to investigate). - He started a trade war with China, which has forced companies to move their manufacturing to Vietnam, India, Mexico, Taiwan, etc. (Biden admittedly said he would end Trump’s China tariffs, but the many companies that already left are unlikely to return), and even high end tech such as the iPhone is starting to get assembled outside China as well. - He was the first US President to speak directly with Taiwan's President since 1979. - He made the largest arms sale to Taiwan in the past few decades. - The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act was signed under his administration. - The TAIPEI Act was signed under his administration. - Meng Wanzhou was arrested under his administration (which dragged Canada into it because China decided to arbitrarily arrest Canadian citizens). - China Mobile was blocked from offering services in the US, citing national security risks. - Huawei was blocked from using Android and chips with US tech (which will effectively kill their mobiles once their stock runs out). - Huawei was blocked from building 5G networks (USA paid other nations to block them as well). - Hong Kong’s special status was revoked. - Universal Postal Union agreed to let countries raise postal rates after Trump threatened to leave - this means you’ll no longer be able to buy cheap junk from Aliexpress (and resellers like Wish) at no shipping cost (the receiving country was previously forced to deliver the products for free, even if you brought some toy for 10 cents). - Trump is pushing for WTO to drop China’s developing country status. - TikTok and WeChat (likely with more to come) would’ve been blocked by now if it wasn’t for judges temporarily blocking the bans. China’s GDP growth in 2019 was also the lowest it’s been since 1990, and 2020 will be even lower. And China’s reputation around the world is at an all-time low (because all over the world then everyone is discussing everything Trump says, and he often attack China). Also, China’s behavior is nothing new. The only thing that’s new is the fact that we finally have a president that for whatever reasons decided to turn them into his enemy. If EU and the rest of the world had any interest in standing up to China then they could implement their own tariffs, give 5G contracts to their own nation’s companies, etc. But they, just like the Obama/Biden administration, have no interest in doing so.
sudofail 6y ago
If anything can be considered the canary in the coal mine for a threat to world peace, this is it. Most people alive to day have experienced nothing but an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity. It's easy to take it for granted that progress is inevitable, and that wide scale war is a thing of the past. But the CCP's actions against the Uyghurs has shown the world what kind of leader China would be on the world stage. The CCP under the current leadership is the biggest threat to world peace that we've faced in our lifetimes. We should all be pressing our governments to take every peaceful means we can to curtail the rise of CCP power and influence.
- squeezingswirls 6y ago
  Exactly, and we should keep in mind they're exporting their totalitarian surveillance model to a lot of countries https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/24/technology/ecuador-surveillance-cameras-police-government.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/24/technology/ecuador-survei...
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  Collectivism can find a justification for almost any atrocity. Collectivist ideologies (which includes Nazism) have a pretty well-worn track record of inciting mass murder and Chinese communism was a clear example long before the oppression of the Uighurs. Hearing about the reality of enforcing the one-child policy was enough for me to make up my mind on the CCP.
  - DFHippie 6y ago
    The problem isn't collectivism but tribalism. The Han majority in this case don't extend their sympathy to the Uighurs or the Tibetans or the Mongols. The self-described Aryans didn't extend their sympathy to the Jews or the slavs or the Romany. There are plenty of individualists in the US who are indifferent or hostile to other "tribes", blacks or hispanics or native Americans or simply city dwellers, while being very solicitous of the interests of their tribe. I'm sure the Confederacy was full of rugged individualists. They loved Davy Crocket, who died at the Alamo defending the right to enslave Africans and seize land from Mexicans.
webmobdev 6y ago
It's incredibly sad that the world is not doing anything about it. Even if half of the things they say are true - putting anyone in camps for sporting a beard or praying in public, forced prison labour, physical torture, separating new borns and kids from parents in camp, sending kids to brainwashing schools, sexual abuse, organ harvesting etc - it's enough to make anyone feel disgusted at this state of affairs. But the west won't care because of the ethnicity and religions of the victims just doesn't cause as much outrage as it should because the victims aren't white or christians. I know some of you will outraged at this suggestion but even Hollywood knows this - that's why the in one of the Rambo movies, where he is in Myanmar / Burma, the victims are Christians (instead of highlighting the real victims there, the Rohingya muslims facing persecutions - another genocide that the west prefers to turn a blind eye to).
- mikro2nd 6y ago
  "...separating new borns and kids from parents in camp, sending kids to brainwashing schools, sexual abuse..." So nothing like those concentration camps the US is running for refugees/"illegal migrants", then.
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    Is this supposed to be sarcastic? No, it's nothing like US immigration camps.
  - jkhdigital 6y ago
    There are a number of problems with your comparison, but the most fundamental is that the Uyghurs are being persecuted as citizens by their own government.
- pizza234 6y ago
  What can the world realistically do? China right now has enormous power over the rest of the world (by means of economical dependency), and I don't see that decreasing. To be clear, I certainly support human rights, but I personally see the situation as so bad, that I'm worried about how China's influence will extend to the West.
goku99 6y ago
I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire World is Struggling to contain COVID while 600 million Chinese are on Vacation [2] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/16/india-says-officer-two-soldiers-killed-on-border-with-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/16/india-says-officer-two-soldi... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/09/china-attractions-630-million-people-travel-during-golden-week.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/09/china-attractions-630-millio...
- zdragnar 6y ago
  Didn't China just get on to the human rights committee too? Edit: yes, the human rights council, joined by Russia and Cuba. What a time to be alive.
  - deleted 6y ago
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  - rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
    Which of these countries operates the Guantanamo Bay detention camp?
  - goku99 6y ago
    Wasn't it previously occupied by Saudi Arabia? Human rights committee is a joke!
  - wombatmobile 6y ago
    Now is nothing special. Australia commenced a two-year term as a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council on On 1 January 2013. Australia–East Timor spying scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-East_Timor_spying_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-East_Timor_spying_sc... Then on 16 October 2017, in New York, the United Nations General Assembly elected Australia to serve on the Human Rights Council (HRC) for the 2018-20 term. Witness K and the 'outrageous' spy scandal that failed to shame Australia https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/10/witness-k-and-the-outrageous-spy-scandal-that-failed-to-shame-australia https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/10/witne...
bodono 6y ago
This is the major humanitarian issue of our time. It's time to put aside profits and apply economic pressure to end this (and other crimes against tibetans, mongols etc). Does the enlightenment project in the West have any energy left?
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  No, too busy dumpster diving into woke culture
- fnord123 6y ago
  > This is the major humanitarian issue of our time. Not even close. There's reportedly 120,000 - 1m Uyghurs imprisoned, but even this is less than the deaths due to Coronavirus. Climate change will displace and kill more. We will also have to see what happens with the conflict in the Caucuses, but the civil war in Syria has displaced 6m people.
zpeti 6y ago
“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.
- andi999 6y ago
  Any evidence for that claim?
- ianleeclark 6y ago
  It should be acknowledged that this strategy ultimately ended up with the Taliban and our 20+ year occupation of Afghanistan and various massacres throughout central america. > The presidency of Ronald Reagan in the United States was marked by multiple scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials Which was (still is?) The most for any president.
  - zpeti 6y ago
    And the freeing of half of Europe from tyranny. The reduction in threat of nuclear annihilation of the world. The opening up of huge amounts of the world to free trade and prosperity.
    - ianleeclark 6y ago
      I'm not really interested in defending one regime or another, but let's try not to have death squads raping nuns this time.
    - arethuza 6y ago
      I think it's fair to say that the role of US policies, and Reagan's policies in particular, on the fall of the Soviet Union is a matter of some debate.
      - 6y ago
newbie578 6y ago
The future looks scary if China is going to lead the world. Our best bet is to share wealth and innovation to all the other countries to try and reduce economic power of a single country. Having India, Pakistan, Thailand, Taiwan, Korea and Japan grow enough to create a sort of "buffer zone" around China.
- MichaelMoser123 6y ago
  i think the Chinese model is more influential than you might want to admit; for example universal surveillance of private communication and some kind of profiling based on big data is now the practice in many places. I am afraid that a movement towards more control by the central state will be an important current in the period after the Corona epidemic (the states had to take measures to stem the epidemic and once a state bureaucracy got new powers it will be very reluctant to let go of its power); We might see even more points of convergence in the future.
- Hokusai 6y ago
  The future is scary if any sole country leads the world. Only cooperation and shared responsibility creates a viable future for humanity.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
    The present is already scary. The US have led the work without cooperation for quite a long time (remember the 2003 invasion of Iraq?).
    - DFHippie 6y ago
      Aside: Most Americans who voted voted against Bush in 2000, and he would have lost the election altogether if the votes in Florida had been properly tallied. Most Americans who voted voted against Trump in 2016. Trump might win in November as well but nobody, not even in Trump's camp, thinks he will win the majority of the popular vote. This isn't quite on point, but all the collective guilt being slung about in these comments is problematic. I notice you use British collective plural -- "The US have". I don't know whether this is because you imagine the states collectively leading the world or the population of the states, but it suggests you assign collective blame.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Often in discussions like this, someone claims that the Uighur crackdown is necessary “because Islamist extremism”. I strongly encourage everyone to familiarize themselves with the history of the Uighurs under Chinese rule, because this isn’t really about Islam. Namely, there used to be a very strong secular movement among the Uighurs, whose main complaint wasn’t the inability to practise Islam (some of these activists were atheists, even Communists themselves) but rather defending the use of the Uighur language in public and in official usage, and resisting the heavy Han Chinese settlement that would lead to the Uighurs becoming a minority in their own province. What happened is that Beijing cracked down on these secular activists, either imprisoning them in China or forcing them into exile in Turkey or the West. Thus by the early millennium, with the secular activists out of the way, the only forces remaining within Xinjiang that could organize were religious ones, with some support from other Muslim states. Beijing was pleased with the US War on Terror around that time, which allowed it to frame its crackdown on the Uighurs as a reaction to Islamist radicalism, but as I said, the roots really go back to ethnic and linguistic pressures, not religious ones.
- christkv 6y ago
  There is literally a corporation running the area like a modern day East India company on behalf of the Chinese state.
- luckylion 6y ago
  > resisting the heavy Han Chinese settlement that would lead to the Uighurs becoming a minority in their own province It surprises me that nativist anti-immigration demands are considered righteous in some regions and evil and backwards in others. I understand the general history like you do though, I don't disagree. Radical Uighur groups did help China make the case with their knife attacks on civilians to be painted as "just another brand of islamic terrorism".
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    > It surprises me that nativist anti-immigration demands are considered righteous in some regions and evil and backwards in others. Nativist anti-immigration demands in Europe or North America are generally criticized as hyperbole because immigration will not actually lead to demographic replacement in the near future, in spite of those activists’ claims. Furthermore, in Europe the immigrants invariably assimilate linguistically to their host country – by the second or third generation, the language of the old country is forgotten. Xinjiang is a very different case entirely: China has the numbers to change Xinjiang’s demographics, and virtually none of those Han Chinese immigrants are learning Uighur and using it in public. > Radical Uighur groups did help China make the case with their knife attacks on civilians to be painted as "just another brand of islamic terrorism". The major wave of knife attacks (which can be seen as a late sign of desperation) postdate China’s attempt to tie the crackdown on the Uighurs to the West’s War on Terrorism. Again, the chronology here is important.
tsjq 6y ago
Quite surprised that the Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, et al Global-Islamic-Caliphate forces haven't tried anything at this aggression against Muslims in China.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
  Maybe because they prefer to focus on countries that project their forces abroad to build empires (starting with oil resources)?
  - jiuahweruihawi 6y ago
    You obviously don't know much about what China is up to if you don't think that description applies to China.
  - oxymoran 6y ago
    China is trying to become the world hegemony. If that’s not empire building, I don’t know what is.
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  They have, China has big problems with Islamic terrorism in its western provinces.
- deleted 6y ago
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- vmception 6y ago
  Which is why maybe you should actually understand Islam, what triggers radicalism, what doesn't, and how "The West" also gets that wrong, and how China navigates an exemption from Jihad. Al Queda was specifically formed to create a predictable response from the West that the West would never get out of. Bin Laden's purpose of Al Queda was to make a war with them so expensive that the US tears itself apart over budget considerations alone. So, funny story...
  - 542354234235 6y ago
panpanna 6y ago
I wonder why Turkey (Uyghurs are Turks) has been so quiet about this. Oh yeah, they are busy finishing their own genocide...
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  Some genocides inspire silence. West Papuan human rights tragedy mocked by new Australian PM https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/10/6/west-papuan-human-rights-tragedy-mocked-by-new-australian-pm/ https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/10/6/west-papuan-hum...
dr_dshiv 6y ago
A utilitarian perspective judges morality based on total improvements in human wellbeing. From that perspective, is it appropriate to say that the Chinese government is the best government of all time? The sheer numbers of people who are improving is somewhat mind boggling. Yet, they make moral tradeoffs. We all make moral tradeoffs. I think it is important to keep their moral tradeoffs in context, lest we risk hypocracy or worse, oppositionalism (creating needlessly damaging power struggles). What is the shared vision of the future where our moral priorities align? Can we realize that future, together?
- rubidium 6y ago
  Human freedom and rights are more central to well being than material prosperity.
- jimothyhalpert7 6y ago
  Suggested reading: "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula K. Le Guin. It's a short read.
  - dr_dshiv 6y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_... Is the implication that China is better or worse in this regard than the USA or Europe?
- Subsentient 6y ago
  How dare you use the word "utilitarian" in such an atrocious context. I've been a "real" utilitarian for almost a decade (as much as is possible to be), and I consider China the single greatest threat to freedom and peace on the face of the planet. Can you seriously believe that China would not be far, far better off with a democratic regime? Yes, China has raised up their economy, but they've only done it for the sake of power, and hundreds of millions of Chinese still live in severe poverty.
  - dr_dshiv 6y ago
LatteLazy 6y ago
I'm no fan of the US, but too many people here are basically saying "the US does bad stuff too". You're not wrong, your point just irrelevant. 2 things can be bad without either excusing the other...
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  Yes but we must be equally outraged about it. Especially since Americans have more power to change the actions of their own government.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
    The US also have far more influence on the rest of the world than China (at least for now). As a French, many things happening in the US can have big consequences on my day-to-day life: US military operations directly increases risk of terrorist attacks in Paris (because of NATO or more indirectly), big price moves on the NYSE influence market sentiment in all Western countries, Hollywood movies and Netflix releases change our culture continuously, Google and Facebook privacy changes hits us too, Uber price policy, BLM events actually change perception of police violence in my city within a week, US patent on new cancer drugs, etc. I can't find a single occurrence of a China-centric event that had repercussion on me, my friends or family.
  - Subsentient 6y ago
    No, we do not, because the crimes of the US are not equally severe and/or are historic and not actively occurring. There's a difference between systemic racism and state-sanctioned cultural genocide signed off on by the dictator himself.
    - joelbluminator 6y ago
      Who determines they are not equally severe? How can we reliably estimate and compare the damage done in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan to what's happening in China?
      - 6y ago
Synaesthesia 6y ago
The people of Gaza are also being held in a permanent prison camp. A crime against humanity.
- deleted 6y ago
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meiraleal 6y ago
The persecution of black people, too.
- sudofail 6y ago
  Let’s stop the false equivalency. Should more be done for the black community: absolutely. But black people aren’t locked up by the millions in internment camps.
  - meiraleal 6y ago
    false equivalency? if there is one I'd say the oppression to black people is way worse, specially with so many people invested in suppressing this discussion. It was the Uyghurs that built China's prosperity? Were they enslaved, lynched, segregated for centuries? I don't think there is really an equivalence. What the US did to the black people is a lot worse.
    - sudofail 6y ago
      Tell the CCP I send my regards
    - Subsentient 6y ago
      I'm so tired of this drivel. I don't understand how anyone can take themselves seriously saying this shit, comparing the two issues. Only thing I can think of is being paid off by the CCP.
      - meiraleal 6y ago
        That's the history of your country, it is better to deal with that than blame everyone else. The US have enough money to solve the issue, but not acknowledging it makes it impossible to solve.
sasaf5 6y ago
> Nonetheless, liberal democracies have an obligation to call a gulag a gulag. That this even needs to be written in 2020 makes me very disappointed at the current state of human rights.
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bloak 6y ago
Unfortunately, I don't think generating a load of anti-Chinese sentiment in Europe and North America is going to make the Chinese feel less threatened by the Uyghurs. Rather the reverse, I expect. So I'd recommend people express their support for the Uyghurs without, in effect, calling for a holy war against China.
- vincvinc 6y ago
  I agree. On the other hand, how to put pressure (by, for example boycotting the upcoming Beijing Winter Olympics) without providing propaganda-fuel for the CCP to drive one more wedge between Chinese people and the rest of the world?
cannedslime 6y ago
When does something become a crime against humanity? Is terrorism, like handful of men and women just stabbing random people with kitchen knives on a train station, is that a crime against humanity? What do you do, when a group of people constantly advocate for such crimes?
- sudofail 6y ago
  By that logic, what should the world do if a country is violating basic human rights of over a million people?
  - cannedslime 6y ago
    What is a basic human right? If you have a community of a million humans that constantly cause trouble, stab random people, blow themselves up, drive through crowds of people to make a quasi political-religious statement, doesn't that merit some kind of bad treatment? You reap what you sow. I am sorry, but the last decade of islamic terrorism, senseless killings of innocent people, of KIDS infront of their families, like the christmas market drivetroughs we have had here in europe, I just have no sympathy for humans that subscribe to islamism. Sorry! The glass is empty. You can't do vile inhuman stuff on a regular basis and then cry human rights - Its hypocrisy on such a level that only religious people can display such ingracious and dishonest behaviour! I can really understand why some obscure sect of radical islamists get mistreated in China. What I cannot fathom is why globalist NGOs work so hard at bringing unending islamic migration to europe. Look! I can understand why Junckers of EU wants to bring in millions of Africans (and thereby commit genocide on the european population, as per UNs own definition) in order to subvert the african continent into some kind of unholy union where we will have "1.8billion consoomers" as he so graciously puts it. What I cannot understand is the love for islam, that shows absolutely no love for any other group or religion. There isn't a level of the average European society that isnt deeply affected by islamic immigration! Its rediculous. Where is my human rights to be left alone by religious nutjobs and questionable cousin on cousin breeding, clan traditions, honor killings, segregation, religious demonstrations, crime, grooming gang scandals, weapon and grenade attacks and I could go on. This isn't even the tip of the iceberg! The only tears I have for the cries of human rights, is crying laughter. Why is it always the most inhumane groups of people who calls for human rights? If you want to be treated like a human, start acting like one. The worst of all of this human rights nonsense, is that in south africa, they are literally chanting "kill the Boer" while almost everyday, another family gets slaughtered and raped, and no one as much as bats an eye, no media mention, probably because it doesn't resonate too well with all that BLM subversion.
Rainymood 6y ago
I am very vocal about this in my inner circle, but what can I, as a single developer in Europe, do to help?
mrageh 6y ago
Majority SJW are hypocrites, they spend all their energy and time battling against shit that's minor. Like changing the name of repos, removing certain words from a massive project etc. Making sure certain peoples feelings are protected. Yet when it comes to serious problems in our world, like Uyghur muslims being persecuted they remain silent. Or when western countries destroy Libya and give birth slavery in Africa, they remain silent.
- DFHippie 6y ago
  I don't think your mental model of the behavior of "social justice warriors" is accurate. Do you really think the people you demonize for expressing sympathy for people outside their own tribe are silent in these cases and the people you implicitly praise for keeping silent about injustices they do not suffer themselves are the heroes complaining on the internet about the treatment of the Uighurs?
gopty 6y ago
The world has enough Islamic countries. Most of them are not open, industrialized first world countries. Where you have Islam and a non islamic population, you have trouble. Be it the Philippines, Armenia, Myanmar, nigeria, russia, ethiopia, you name it. China is not a non-interacting gap country like most (all?) Islamic countries. And as a westerner living happily in China, I am actually glad that China does not accept violent, tribal behaviour in China. In fact, as someone who has worked with enforcement and militaries I find the Chinese police highly professional.
- gopty 6y ago
  I assume it is the same crowd that screams for women rights, gay rights, freedom of speech that thinks we need most moslemic Staates
nemrut 6y ago
Uighurs and the other 50+ minorities are an integral part of China, which regardless of ruling body, has 5,000yr history of integrating minorities within its civilization state, hence its enormous population. If Uighurs were in fact being persecuted as the west claims, there would be mass protests, terrorism, and refugees fleeing across the border--something that would be impossible to conceal and highly publicized by the west. The reality is Uighurs live all over China and are well integrated into society. In Xinjiang, many are afforded the opportunity to get additional education and job training to be productive citizens, as those with a bright future are less likely to be disenfranchised and resort to violence. The US/western led smear campaign against China is nothing more than a poorly conceived containment strategy to demonize a country that has succeeded against all odds, while in the process, has made western govts look incompetent by comparison--despite their 'democracy and freedoms.' China is being alienated and used as a scapegoat, largely to distract public sentiment in the west from the failings of their own govts. In the case of the US, China poses a threat to post WWII hegemony which is nothing more than a euphemism for maintaining white supremacy via the 5 Eyes Anglo alliance with CAN/UK/AUS/NZ. The US led west has been indiscriminately bombing innocent civilians suspected of terrorism for last 20yrs, while renditioning known terrorists to offshore black sites where they can mete out any form of torture/punishment with impunity and zero consequences. Is it rational to believe theyre sincerely concerned about the well being of Uighurs...

408 points by vincvinc 6y ago

tsjq 6y ago

China appears to have done with Uyghurs, and has moved on to next frontier : Mongols.

EliRivers 6y ago
Oh yes, like that exhibition in France that mentioned Ghengis Khan. Can't have that; it goes against the CCCP narrative of the history of China.
- GauntletWizard 6y ago
  If you haven’t heard of it, like I hadn’t: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/14/french-genghis-khan-exhibit-put-interference-claims/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/14/french-genghis-k...
  - andi999 6y ago
    Thanks. There must be more to this story. Everybody in China knows about the Yuan dynasty (and its origin).
    - GauntletWizard 6y ago
      Today. Today, everyone knows about it. The unpleasant parts of history have a tendency of disappearing. In a hundred years time, we might only remember Xanadu.
- tsjq 6y ago
  Further, despite the Mongols comprising a good part of the population, China is forcing Chinese language onto them (the Inner Mongolia state) and has begun to gradually phase out their native language.
math_random 6y ago
its Tibet now
- tsjq 6y ago
  Tibet is done.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
sudofail 6y ago
And after that, Taiwan
thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
Or the China-relations zeitgeist only has room for one story at a time and the rest get ignored. It's very hard to know these things deeply when we don't speak the language or understand the history. This story might be the first time readers find out about China caring about Mongols at all

causality0 6y ago

It stands to reason that had Nazi Germany not attacked its neighbors, the rest of the world would have happily stood by and watched them execute their own Jewish/undesirables population with nothing more than some strongly-worded letters and trade sanctions.

jkhdigital 6y ago
Probably true, although in that case at least the non-German victims would have been spared so the scale of the slaughter would have been reduced.
PeterisP 6y ago
Yes, sure, that's the prevailing opinion probably since even before WW2 had ended. Though without attacking neighbours, the scale of Holocaust would be greatly limited, since just a small fraction of all the killed people lived within the borders of pre-war Germany. If we look at all the (many!) genocides of 20th century, it's clear that the world is not going to respond with military intervention as long as you're executing your own 'undesirables' and not attacking your neighbours.
- deleted 6y ago
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mlang23 6y ago
You mean like when tibet was invaded, and the whole world immediately joined forces to stop that. Hmm. I think it is more "what is close to the west is important to the west". People dont count, not even today. Money and economics count. People are born every day. It is a cruel world that claims humanity exists to cloud its own shortcomings. It is sad to watch.
Flankk 6y ago
The public knew of work camps but did not know the conditions. It's my understanding the Nazis later turned some of the camps into death camps and attempted to keep that a secret. I believe the war was already underway by then. The world was a very different place as well. Segregation and eugenics were accepted practice back then.

colechristensen 6y ago

Seeing this stated so clearly and prominently in an influential publication brings me hope. I am skeptical though that many people, especially those in the position to make influential choices, especially those who have profit tied up with China, will do anything other than see it and nod.

DavidSJ 6y ago
One possibility is that some economic pressure can be brought to bear by a Biden administration, perhaps in concert with other Western countries. Edited to add: This statement is political, but the genocide against Uyghurs is political too, and if we want to hold our leaders accountable to doing something about it, we need to acknowledge facts. Trump had previously indicated he wasn't interested in letting such matters interfere with trade talks. https://www.axios.com/trump-uighur-muslims-sanctions-d4dc86fc-17f4-42bd-bdbd-c30f4d2ffa21.html https://www.axios.com/trump-uighur-muslims-sanctions-d4dc86f...
- abc-xyz 6y ago
  What exactly did Biden do to stand up to China during the Obama/Biden administration (or throughout his political career)? Here’s an incomplete list of things Trump has done: - He refers to the Wuhan Virus as the China/Chinese Virus (CCP is trying very hard from distancing themselves from responsibility; they won’t even let us into Wuhan to investigate). - He started a trade war with China, which has forced companies to move their manufacturing to Vietnam, India, Mexico, Taiwan, etc. (Biden admittedly said he would end Trump’s China tariffs, but the many companies that already left are unlikely to return), and even high end tech such as the iPhone is starting to get assembled outside China as well. - He was the first US President to speak directly with Taiwan's President since 1979. - He made the largest arms sale to Taiwan in the past few decades. - The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act was signed under his administration. - The TAIPEI Act was signed under his administration. - Meng Wanzhou was arrested under his administration (which dragged Canada into it because China decided to arbitrarily arrest Canadian citizens). - China Mobile was blocked from offering services in the US, citing national security risks. - Huawei was blocked from using Android and chips with US tech (which will effectively kill their mobiles once their stock runs out). - Huawei was blocked from building 5G networks (USA paid other nations to block them as well). - Hong Kong’s special status was revoked. - Universal Postal Union agreed to let countries raise postal rates after Trump threatened to leave - this means you’ll no longer be able to buy cheap junk from Aliexpress (and resellers like Wish) at no shipping cost (the receiving country was previously forced to deliver the products for free, even if you brought some toy for 10 cents). - Trump is pushing for WTO to drop China’s developing country status. - TikTok and WeChat (likely with more to come) would’ve been blocked by now if it wasn’t for judges temporarily blocking the bans. China’s GDP growth in 2019 was also the lowest it’s been since 1990, and 2020 will be even lower. And China’s reputation around the world is at an all-time low (because all over the world then everyone is discussing everything Trump says, and he often attack China). Also, China’s behavior is nothing new. The only thing that’s new is the fact that we finally have a president that for whatever reasons decided to turn them into his enemy. If EU and the rest of the world had any interest in standing up to China then they could implement their own tariffs, give 5G contracts to their own nation’s companies, etc. But they, just like the Obama/Biden administration, have no interest in doing so.

sudofail 6y ago

If anything can be considered the canary in the coal mine for a threat to world peace, this is it. Most people alive to day have experienced nothing but an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity. It's easy to take it for granted that progress is inevitable, and that wide scale war is a thing of the past. But the CCP's actions against the Uyghurs has shown the world what kind of leader China would be on the world stage. The CCP under the current leadership is the biggest threat to world peace that we've faced in our lifetimes. We should all be pressing our governments to take every peaceful means we can to curtail the rise of CCP power and influence.

squeezingswirls 6y ago
Exactly, and we should keep in mind they're exporting their totalitarian surveillance model to a lot of countries https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/24/technology/ecuador-surveillance-cameras-police-government.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/24/technology/ecuador-survei...
jkhdigital 6y ago
Collectivism can find a justification for almost any atrocity. Collectivist ideologies (which includes Nazism) have a pretty well-worn track record of inciting mass murder and Chinese communism was a clear example long before the oppression of the Uighurs. Hearing about the reality of enforcing the one-child policy was enough for me to make up my mind on the CCP.
- DFHippie 6y ago
  The problem isn't collectivism but tribalism. The Han majority in this case don't extend their sympathy to the Uighurs or the Tibetans or the Mongols. The self-described Aryans didn't extend their sympathy to the Jews or the slavs or the Romany. There are plenty of individualists in the US who are indifferent or hostile to other "tribes", blacks or hispanics or native Americans or simply city dwellers, while being very solicitous of the interests of their tribe. I'm sure the Confederacy was full of rugged individualists. They loved Davy Crocket, who died at the Alamo defending the right to enslave Africans and seize land from Mexicans.

webmobdev 6y ago

It's incredibly sad that the world is not doing anything about it. Even if half of the things they say are true - putting anyone in camps for sporting a beard or praying in public, forced prison labour, physical torture, separating new borns and kids from parents in camp, sending kids to brainwashing schools, sexual abuse, organ harvesting etc - it's enough to make anyone feel disgusted at this state of affairs. But the west won't care because of the ethnicity and religions of the victims just doesn't cause as much outrage as it should because the victims aren't white or christians. I know some of you will outraged at this suggestion but even Hollywood knows this - that's why the in one of the Rambo movies, where he is in Myanmar / Burma, the victims are Christians (instead of highlighting the real victims there, the Rohingya muslims facing persecutions - another genocide that the west prefers to turn a blind eye to).

mikro2nd 6y ago
"...separating new borns and kids from parents in camp, sending kids to brainwashing schools, sexual abuse..." So nothing like those concentration camps the US is running for refugees/"illegal migrants", then.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  Is this supposed to be sarcastic? No, it's nothing like US immigration camps.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  There are a number of problems with your comparison, but the most fundamental is that the Uyghurs are being persecuted as citizens by their own government.
pizza234 6y ago
What can the world realistically do? China right now has enormous power over the rest of the world (by means of economical dependency), and I don't see that decreasing. To be clear, I certainly support human rights, but I personally see the situation as so bad, that I'm worried about how China's influence will extend to the West.

goku99 6y ago

I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire World is Struggling to contain COVID while 600 million Chinese are on Vacation [2] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/16/india-says-officer-two-soldiers-killed-on-border-with-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/16/india-says-officer-two-soldi... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/09/china-attractions-630-million-people-travel-during-golden-week.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/09/china-attractions-630-millio...

zdragnar 6y ago
Didn't China just get on to the human rights committee too? Edit: yes, the human rights council, joined by Russia and Cuba. What a time to be alive.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
  Which of these countries operates the Guantanamo Bay detention camp?
- goku99 6y ago
  Wasn't it previously occupied by Saudi Arabia? Human rights committee is a joke!
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  Now is nothing special. Australia commenced a two-year term as a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council on On 1 January 2013. Australia–East Timor spying scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-East_Timor_spying_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-East_Timor_spying_sc... Then on 16 October 2017, in New York, the United Nations General Assembly elected Australia to serve on the Human Rights Council (HRC) for the 2018-20 term. Witness K and the 'outrageous' spy scandal that failed to shame Australia https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/10/witness-k-and-the-outrageous-spy-scandal-that-failed-to-shame-australia https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/10/witne...

bodono 6y ago

This is the major humanitarian issue of our time. It's time to put aside profits and apply economic pressure to end this (and other crimes against tibetans, mongols etc). Does the enlightenment project in the West have any energy left?

jkhdigital 6y ago
No, too busy dumpster diving into woke culture
fnord123 6y ago
> This is the major humanitarian issue of our time. Not even close. There's reportedly 120,000 - 1m Uyghurs imprisoned, but even this is less than the deaths due to Coronavirus. Climate change will displace and kill more. We will also have to see what happens with the conflict in the Caucuses, but the civil war in Syria has displaced 6m people.

zpeti 6y ago

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

andi999 6y ago
Any evidence for that claim?
ianleeclark 6y ago
It should be acknowledged that this strategy ultimately ended up with the Taliban and our 20+ year occupation of Afghanistan and various massacres throughout central america. > The presidency of Ronald Reagan in the United States was marked by multiple scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials Which was (still is?) The most for any president.
- zpeti 6y ago
  And the freeing of half of Europe from tyranny. The reduction in threat of nuclear annihilation of the world. The opening up of huge amounts of the world to free trade and prosperity.
  - ianleeclark 6y ago
    I'm not really interested in defending one regime or another, but let's try not to have death squads raping nuns this time.
  - arethuza 6y ago
    I think it's fair to say that the role of US policies, and Reagan's policies in particular, on the fall of the Soviet Union is a matter of some debate.
    - 6y ago

newbie578 6y ago

The future looks scary if China is going to lead the world. Our best bet is to share wealth and innovation to all the other countries to try and reduce economic power of a single country. Having India, Pakistan, Thailand, Taiwan, Korea and Japan grow enough to create a sort of "buffer zone" around China.

MichaelMoser123 6y ago
i think the Chinese model is more influential than you might want to admit; for example universal surveillance of private communication and some kind of profiling based on big data is now the practice in many places. I am afraid that a movement towards more control by the central state will be an important current in the period after the Corona epidemic (the states had to take measures to stem the epidemic and once a state bureaucracy got new powers it will be very reluctant to let go of its power); We might see even more points of convergence in the future.
Hokusai 6y ago
The future is scary if any sole country leads the world. Only cooperation and shared responsibility creates a viable future for humanity.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
  The present is already scary. The US have led the work without cooperation for quite a long time (remember the 2003 invasion of Iraq?).
  - DFHippie 6y ago
    Aside: Most Americans who voted voted against Bush in 2000, and he would have lost the election altogether if the votes in Florida had been properly tallied. Most Americans who voted voted against Trump in 2016. Trump might win in November as well but nobody, not even in Trump's camp, thinks he will win the majority of the popular vote. This isn't quite on point, but all the collective guilt being slung about in these comments is problematic. I notice you use British collective plural -- "The US have". I don't know whether this is because you imagine the states collectively leading the world or the population of the states, but it suggests you assign collective blame.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

Often in discussions like this, someone claims that the Uighur crackdown is necessary “because Islamist extremism”. I strongly encourage everyone to familiarize themselves with the history of the Uighurs under Chinese rule, because this isn’t really about Islam. Namely, there used to be a very strong secular movement among the Uighurs, whose main complaint wasn’t the inability to practise Islam (some of these activists were atheists, even Communists themselves) but rather defending the use of the Uighur language in public and in official usage, and resisting the heavy Han Chinese settlement that would lead to the Uighurs becoming a minority in their own province. What happened is that Beijing cracked down on these secular activists, either imprisoning them in China or forcing them into exile in Turkey or the West. Thus by the early millennium, with the secular activists out of the way, the only forces remaining within Xinjiang that could organize were religious ones, with some support from other Muslim states. Beijing was pleased with the US War on Terror around that time, which allowed it to frame its crackdown on the Uighurs as a reaction to Islamist radicalism, but as I said, the roots really go back to ethnic and linguistic pressures, not religious ones.

christkv 6y ago
There is literally a corporation running the area like a modern day East India company on behalf of the Chinese state.
luckylion 6y ago
> resisting the heavy Han Chinese settlement that would lead to the Uighurs becoming a minority in their own province It surprises me that nativist anti-immigration demands are considered righteous in some regions and evil and backwards in others. I understand the general history like you do though, I don't disagree. Radical Uighur groups did help China make the case with their knife attacks on civilians to be painted as "just another brand of islamic terrorism".
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > It surprises me that nativist anti-immigration demands are considered righteous in some regions and evil and backwards in others. Nativist anti-immigration demands in Europe or North America are generally criticized as hyperbole because immigration will not actually lead to demographic replacement in the near future, in spite of those activists’ claims. Furthermore, in Europe the immigrants invariably assimilate linguistically to their host country – by the second or third generation, the language of the old country is forgotten. Xinjiang is a very different case entirely: China has the numbers to change Xinjiang’s demographics, and virtually none of those Han Chinese immigrants are learning Uighur and using it in public. > Radical Uighur groups did help China make the case with their knife attacks on civilians to be painted as "just another brand of islamic terrorism". The major wave of knife attacks (which can be seen as a late sign of desperation) postdate China’s attempt to tie the crackdown on the Uighurs to the West’s War on Terrorism. Again, the chronology here is important.

tsjq 6y ago

Quite surprised that the Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, et al Global-Islamic-Caliphate forces haven't tried anything at this aggression against Muslims in China.

rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
Maybe because they prefer to focus on countries that project their forces abroad to build empires (starting with oil resources)?
- jiuahweruihawi 6y ago
  You obviously don't know much about what China is up to if you don't think that description applies to China.
- oxymoran 6y ago
  China is trying to become the world hegemony. If that’s not empire building, I don’t know what is.
Synaesthesia 6y ago
They have, China has big problems with Islamic terrorism in its western provinces.
deleted 6y ago
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vmception 6y ago
Which is why maybe you should actually understand Islam, what triggers radicalism, what doesn't, and how "The West" also gets that wrong, and how China navigates an exemption from Jihad. Al Queda was specifically formed to create a predictable response from the West that the West would never get out of. Bin Laden's purpose of Al Queda was to make a war with them so expensive that the US tears itself apart over budget considerations alone. So, funny story...
- 542354234235 6y ago

panpanna 6y ago

I wonder why Turkey (Uyghurs are Turks) has been so quiet about this. Oh yeah, they are busy finishing their own genocide...

wombatmobile 6y ago
Some genocides inspire silence. West Papuan human rights tragedy mocked by new Australian PM https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/10/6/west-papuan-human-rights-tragedy-mocked-by-new-australian-pm/ https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/10/6/west-papuan-hum...

dr_dshiv 6y ago

A utilitarian perspective judges morality based on total improvements in human wellbeing. From that perspective, is it appropriate to say that the Chinese government is the best government of all time? The sheer numbers of people who are improving is somewhat mind boggling. Yet, they make moral tradeoffs. We all make moral tradeoffs. I think it is important to keep their moral tradeoffs in context, lest we risk hypocracy or worse, oppositionalism (creating needlessly damaging power struggles). What is the shared vision of the future where our moral priorities align? Can we realize that future, together?

rubidium 6y ago
Human freedom and rights are more central to well being than material prosperity.
jimothyhalpert7 6y ago
Suggested reading: "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula K. Le Guin. It's a short read.
- dr_dshiv 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_... Is the implication that China is better or worse in this regard than the USA or Europe?
Subsentient 6y ago
How dare you use the word "utilitarian" in such an atrocious context. I've been a "real" utilitarian for almost a decade (as much as is possible to be), and I consider China the single greatest threat to freedom and peace on the face of the planet. Can you seriously believe that China would not be far, far better off with a democratic regime? Yes, China has raised up their economy, but they've only done it for the sake of power, and hundreds of millions of Chinese still live in severe poverty.
- dr_dshiv 6y ago

LatteLazy 6y ago

I'm no fan of the US, but too many people here are basically saying "the US does bad stuff too". You're not wrong, your point just irrelevant. 2 things can be bad without either excusing the other...

Synaesthesia 6y ago
Yes but we must be equally outraged about it. Especially since Americans have more power to change the actions of their own government.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
  The US also have far more influence on the rest of the world than China (at least for now). As a French, many things happening in the US can have big consequences on my day-to-day life: US military operations directly increases risk of terrorist attacks in Paris (because of NATO or more indirectly), big price moves on the NYSE influence market sentiment in all Western countries, Hollywood movies and Netflix releases change our culture continuously, Google and Facebook privacy changes hits us too, Uber price policy, BLM events actually change perception of police violence in my city within a week, US patent on new cancer drugs, etc. I can't find a single occurrence of a China-centric event that had repercussion on me, my friends or family.
- Subsentient 6y ago
  No, we do not, because the crimes of the US are not equally severe and/or are historic and not actively occurring. There's a difference between systemic racism and state-sanctioned cultural genocide signed off on by the dictator himself.
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    Who determines they are not equally severe? How can we reliably estimate and compare the damage done in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan to what's happening in China?
    - 6y ago

Synaesthesia 6y ago

The people of Gaza are also being held in a permanent prison camp. A crime against humanity.

deleted 6y ago
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meiraleal 6y ago

The persecution of black people, too.

sudofail 6y ago
Let’s stop the false equivalency. Should more be done for the black community: absolutely. But black people aren’t locked up by the millions in internment camps.
- meiraleal 6y ago
  false equivalency? if there is one I'd say the oppression to black people is way worse, specially with so many people invested in suppressing this discussion. It was the Uyghurs that built China's prosperity? Were they enslaved, lynched, segregated for centuries? I don't think there is really an equivalence. What the US did to the black people is a lot worse.
  - sudofail 6y ago
    Tell the CCP I send my regards
  - Subsentient 6y ago
    I'm so tired of this drivel. I don't understand how anyone can take themselves seriously saying this shit, comparing the two issues. Only thing I can think of is being paid off by the CCP.
    - meiraleal 6y ago
      That's the history of your country, it is better to deal with that than blame everyone else. The US have enough money to solve the issue, but not acknowledging it makes it impossible to solve.

sasaf5 6y ago

> Nonetheless, liberal democracies have an obligation to call a gulag a gulag. That this even needs to be written in 2020 makes me very disappointed at the current state of human rights.

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bloak 6y ago

Unfortunately, I don't think generating a load of anti-Chinese sentiment in Europe and North America is going to make the Chinese feel less threatened by the Uyghurs. Rather the reverse, I expect. So I'd recommend people express their support for the Uyghurs without, in effect, calling for a holy war against China.

vincvinc 6y ago
I agree. On the other hand, how to put pressure (by, for example boycotting the upcoming Beijing Winter Olympics) without providing propaganda-fuel for the CCP to drive one more wedge between Chinese people and the rest of the world?

cannedslime 6y ago

When does something become a crime against humanity? Is terrorism, like handful of men and women just stabbing random people with kitchen knives on a train station, is that a crime against humanity? What do you do, when a group of people constantly advocate for such crimes?

sudofail 6y ago
By that logic, what should the world do if a country is violating basic human rights of over a million people?
- cannedslime 6y ago
  What is a basic human right? If you have a community of a million humans that constantly cause trouble, stab random people, blow themselves up, drive through crowds of people to make a quasi political-religious statement, doesn't that merit some kind of bad treatment? You reap what you sow. I am sorry, but the last decade of islamic terrorism, senseless killings of innocent people, of KIDS infront of their families, like the christmas market drivetroughs we have had here in europe, I just have no sympathy for humans that subscribe to islamism. Sorry! The glass is empty. You can't do vile inhuman stuff on a regular basis and then cry human rights - Its hypocrisy on such a level that only religious people can display such ingracious and dishonest behaviour! I can really understand why some obscure sect of radical islamists get mistreated in China. What I cannot fathom is why globalist NGOs work so hard at bringing unending islamic migration to europe. Look! I can understand why Junckers of EU wants to bring in millions of Africans (and thereby commit genocide on the european population, as per UNs own definition) in order to subvert the african continent into some kind of unholy union where we will have "1.8billion consoomers" as he so graciously puts it. What I cannot understand is the love for islam, that shows absolutely no love for any other group or religion. There isn't a level of the average European society that isnt deeply affected by islamic immigration! Its rediculous. Where is my human rights to be left alone by religious nutjobs and questionable cousin on cousin breeding, clan traditions, honor killings, segregation, religious demonstrations, crime, grooming gang scandals, weapon and grenade attacks and I could go on. This isn't even the tip of the iceberg! The only tears I have for the cries of human rights, is crying laughter. Why is it always the most inhumane groups of people who calls for human rights? If you want to be treated like a human, start acting like one. The worst of all of this human rights nonsense, is that in south africa, they are literally chanting "kill the Boer" while almost everyday, another family gets slaughtered and raped, and no one as much as bats an eye, no media mention, probably because it doesn't resonate too well with all that BLM subversion.

Rainymood 6y ago

I am very vocal about this in my inner circle, but what can I, as a single developer in Europe, do to help?

mrageh 6y ago

Majority SJW are hypocrites, they spend all their energy and time battling against shit that's minor. Like changing the name of repos, removing certain words from a massive project etc. Making sure certain peoples feelings are protected. Yet when it comes to serious problems in our world, like Uyghur muslims being persecuted they remain silent. Or when western countries destroy Libya and give birth slavery in Africa, they remain silent.

DFHippie 6y ago
I don't think your mental model of the behavior of "social justice warriors" is accurate. Do you really think the people you demonize for expressing sympathy for people outside their own tribe are silent in these cases and the people you implicitly praise for keeping silent about injustices they do not suffer themselves are the heroes complaining on the internet about the treatment of the Uighurs?

gopty 6y ago

The world has enough Islamic countries. Most of them are not open, industrialized first world countries. Where you have Islam and a non islamic population, you have trouble. Be it the Philippines, Armenia, Myanmar, nigeria, russia, ethiopia, you name it. China is not a non-interacting gap country like most (all?) Islamic countries. And as a westerner living happily in China, I am actually glad that China does not accept violent, tribal behaviour in China. In fact, as someone who has worked with enforcement and militaries I find the Chinese police highly professional.

gopty 6y ago
I assume it is the same crowd that screams for women rights, gay rights, freedom of speech that thinks we need most moslemic Staates

nemrut 6y ago

Uighurs and the other 50+ minorities are an integral part of China, which regardless of ruling body, has 5,000yr history of integrating minorities within its civilization state, hence its enormous population. If Uighurs were in fact being persecuted as the west claims, there would be mass protests, terrorism, and refugees fleeing across the border--something that would be impossible to conceal and highly publicized by the west. The reality is Uighurs live all over China and are well integrated into society. In Xinjiang, many are afforded the opportunity to get additional education and job training to be productive citizens, as those with a bright future are less likely to be disenfranchised and resort to violence. The US/western led smear campaign against China is nothing more than a poorly conceived containment strategy to demonize a country that has succeeded against all odds, while in the process, has made western govts look incompetent by comparison--despite their 'democracy and freedoms.' China is being alienated and used as a scapegoat, largely to distract public sentiment in the west from the failings of their own govts. In the case of the US, China poses a threat to post WWII hegemony which is nothing more than a euphemism for maintaining white supremacy via the 5 Eyes Anglo alliance with CAN/UK/AUS/NZ. The US led west has been indiscriminately bombing innocent civilians suspected of terrorism for last 20yrs, while renditioning known terrorists to offshore black sites where they can mete out any form of torture/punishment with impunity and zero consequences. Is it rational to believe theyre sincerely concerned about the well being of Uighurs...