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Most green energy isn't feasible for today's power needs in the first world. We can't store it and they cost a lot to build in comparison to it's counter parts

Most green energy isn't feasible for today's power needs in the first world. We can't store it and they cost a lot to build in comparison to it's counter parts of coal and natural gas plants. And no more capital funding it won't fix it. Power companies hate them cause they just suck.

adrianN 6y ago
All your points are wrong. We can store the energy in batteries, pumped hydro, hydrogen/methane, as heat and probably half a dozen other technologies. Renewables are cheaper to build than conventional power. Power companies hate them because they challenge the profitability of their existing coal plants.
- eloisius 6y ago
  Is gp flagged because their points were all wrong or because they violated HN rules? I’d like to see their points which you refuted rather then downvote brigaded à la reddit. Not to say I think you’re wrong or anything positive towards fossil fuels, just in principle I’d rather let someone wrong have their say and get debunked.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Set the showdead option in your HN settings to see flagged comments.
    - eloisius 6y ago
      I did, and it looks like they wrote something that's just wrong, not against HN guidelines. It feels pedantic to make a stand here, but I don't think this is what flagging is for.
      - philipkglass 6y ago
        If you believe that a dead post should not be dead, you can click on its timestamp and then click the "vouch" link. That will bring it back from the dead.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    FWIW you can enable "showdead" on your config page.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
    A lot of leftists like to think they know about concepts we all would like to see. They get super upset though when you get down to the bean counting because they think we should revoke an economy for the sake of some greater cause. We all want green power. However we also expect the lights to turn on when you hit the light switch. Every. Time. And at an affordable rate. For some reason many leftists want this utopia of workers rights and high pay along with an equitable distribution of wealth but then forget many of their ideological polices if implemented would be idiosyncratic to each other. Whats the point of having higher wages is proportionally the expenses you dole out are still the same as before? How do higher electricity costs because of green energy help the working class? Leftists treat their beliefs worse than a religion that it's sickening to hear more than actual christian garbage thrown around every now and then.
    - eloisius 6y ago
      Never mind. I want the flag back now.
      - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
        Fiscal rationality cannot coexist with idiosyncratic policies
- cbmuser 6y ago
  > All your points are wrong. No, yours are. > We can store the energy in batteries, pumped hydro, hydrogen/methane, as heat and probably half a dozen other technologies. Germany consumes 1600 GWh of electricity per day. We currently have a pump storage capacity of 40 GWh, so that's about 30~40 minutes of electricity storage. If you want to go the power2gas route, just have a look at the combustion heat of methane to calculate how much you would roughly have to synthesize to store 1600 GWh worth of energy. > Renewables are cheaper to build than conventional power. They are. But they need backup power plants as their energy densities and capacity factors a very low compared to nuclear power plants. That's why electricity prices in Germany are the highest world-wide: > https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/ > Power companies hate them because they challenge the profitability of their existing coal plants. That's simply untrue. Power companies LOVE renewables because they are highly subsidized and the government always guarantees that any kWh renewable electricity produced is also purchased.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Germany is not at the point where large scale storage is more economical than better demand side integration and very far from the point where it is necessary for grid stability. It's no surprise then that there is not much storage capacity available. For gas though we already have the strategic gas reserve infrastructure that can store nearly 25 billion cubic meters. What's missing is the synthesizing part.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
  Oh I'm sorry, do you work out the logistics of managing an energy company? Do you know the base costs and how hard it is to tell your board, investors, and petition local, state, and the federal government to employ these mechanisms? What about the NIMBY's you forgot to account for? How about the expertise to manage these things? Leftists always act like green power is "super easy" and "it just works." Green energy is a time and money pit. Also while we do have batteries, how do you expect an energy company to store terawatts of power? That is far from cheap as well as hardly feasible. Green energy is the goal. But this isn't goddamn star trek yet. We're far from even being capable of having it replace half of our supplies of power.

adrianN 6y ago

All your points are wrong. We can store the energy in batteries, pumped hydro, hydrogen/methane, as heat and probably half a dozen other technologies. Renewables are cheaper to build than conventional power. Power companies hate them because they challenge the profitability of their existing coal plants.

eloisius 6y ago
Is gp flagged because their points were all wrong or because they violated HN rules? I’d like to see their points which you refuted rather then downvote brigaded à la reddit. Not to say I think you’re wrong or anything positive towards fossil fuels, just in principle I’d rather let someone wrong have their say and get debunked.
- adrianN 6y ago
  Set the showdead option in your HN settings to see flagged comments.
  - eloisius 6y ago
    I did, and it looks like they wrote something that's just wrong, not against HN guidelines. It feels pedantic to make a stand here, but I don't think this is what flagging is for.
    - philipkglass 6y ago
      If you believe that a dead post should not be dead, you can click on its timestamp and then click the "vouch" link. That will bring it back from the dead.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  FWIW you can enable "showdead" on your config page.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
  A lot of leftists like to think they know about concepts we all would like to see. They get super upset though when you get down to the bean counting because they think we should revoke an economy for the sake of some greater cause. We all want green power. However we also expect the lights to turn on when you hit the light switch. Every. Time. And at an affordable rate. For some reason many leftists want this utopia of workers rights and high pay along with an equitable distribution of wealth but then forget many of their ideological polices if implemented would be idiosyncratic to each other. Whats the point of having higher wages is proportionally the expenses you dole out are still the same as before? How do higher electricity costs because of green energy help the working class? Leftists treat their beliefs worse than a religion that it's sickening to hear more than actual christian garbage thrown around every now and then.
  - eloisius 6y ago
    Never mind. I want the flag back now.
    - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
      Fiscal rationality cannot coexist with idiosyncratic policies
cbmuser 6y ago
> All your points are wrong. No, yours are. > We can store the energy in batteries, pumped hydro, hydrogen/methane, as heat and probably half a dozen other technologies. Germany consumes 1600 GWh of electricity per day. We currently have a pump storage capacity of 40 GWh, so that's about 30~40 minutes of electricity storage. If you want to go the power2gas route, just have a look at the combustion heat of methane to calculate how much you would roughly have to synthesize to store 1600 GWh worth of energy. > Renewables are cheaper to build than conventional power. They are. But they need backup power plants as their energy densities and capacity factors a very low compared to nuclear power plants. That's why electricity prices in Germany are the highest world-wide: > https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/ > Power companies hate them because they challenge the profitability of their existing coal plants. That's simply untrue. Power companies LOVE renewables because they are highly subsidized and the government always guarantees that any kWh renewable electricity produced is also purchased.
- adrianN 6y ago
  Germany is not at the point where large scale storage is more economical than better demand side integration and very far from the point where it is necessary for grid stability. It's no surprise then that there is not much storage capacity available. For gas though we already have the strategic gas reserve infrastructure that can store nearly 25 billion cubic meters. What's missing is the synthesizing part.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
Oh I'm sorry, do you work out the logistics of managing an energy company? Do you know the base costs and how hard it is to tell your board, investors, and petition local, state, and the federal government to employ these mechanisms? What about the NIMBY's you forgot to account for? How about the expertise to manage these things? Leftists always act like green power is "super easy" and "it just works." Green energy is a time and money pit. Also while we do have batteries, how do you expect an energy company to store terawatts of power? That is far from cheap as well as hardly feasible. Green energy is the goal. But this isn't goddamn star trek yet. We're far from even being capable of having it replace half of our supplies of power.