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Competition between Democrats in the Generals each carrying water for the party does not make for competitive elections. Even the moderates in SF are to the lef

by SllX 6y ago

Competition between Democrats in the Generals each carrying water for the party does not make for competitive elections. Even the moderates in SF are to the left of the State and Country.

conception 6y ago
Moderate politicians of the world are to the left of the state and country.
- SllX 6y ago
  Unfortunately for the world.
- osobear 6y ago
  Depends on issue but usually no. Bernie Sanders would not be moderate in Europe, and mainstream Democrats (increasingly) would not be either.
  - TMWNN 6y ago
    I wish more people would understand this. Those (both American leftists, and Europeans who listen to them) who say that "Democrats in the US would be right wing in Europe/Canada" have to (for example) then agree that all major political parties in Canada and every European country outside the UK and Ireland are right of US Democrats, because there is no significant opposition to voter ID laws anywhere. Macron's Les Republicains got elected because voters liked his vow to get tough on unions and union pensions, and privatize more infrastructure, neither of which appears in Biden's campaign platform. Speaking of which, several European countries have privatized post offices; not just telecom companies that were parts of PTTs, but entire postal services. It is the rare European country that hasn't sold off at least part of their postal services. The EU explicitly requires postal monopolies to end in member states; whether government-owned or not, EU postal services do not have the USPS's monopoly on first-class mail. Yet no major party in the US seriously talks about privatizing the USPS.[1] Does this mean that American politics is "far to the left" of that of Germany and the UK, both of which have completely sold off their postal services to private investors? [1] 1 And no, it's not because of the Constitution. Article I Section 8 only gives Congress the authority "To establish Post Offices", as opposed to requiring a government-run one. Certainly nothing in the Constitution mandates the USPS's first-class mail monopoly.
    - pas 6y ago
      EU market liberalization makes sense because there are already at least 20+ would be competitors for almost everything. I have no idea how well this turned out in practice, especially considering that market harmonization/standardization is a basically a must have to have efficiency at scale. The big difference seems to be healthcare and education. Where there's a primary state funded/owned/operated/mandated provider/option. Which sort of helps with keeping a ceiling on prices. But at the same time youth unemployment was (and probably still is) very high, despite easy access to higher education. US unemployment rates reached its low point before covid19 probably because so much is tied to employment and there are so few restrictions on hiring and firing folks compared to some "average/median" EU jurisdiction. Then of course there are very real far right parties with power too, so yeah, it's a lot less true that US Dems are so right of Europe politics. While at the same time a very authoritarian group runs the current US federal show, with a very real chance of that continuing, which unfortunately doesn't help with the polarization of politics.
  - pas 6y ago
    Free higher ed and healthcare? That's pretty bog standard centrist/moderate these days in Europe.
- apexalpha 6y ago
  For your reference: a news article about the new campaign of GreenLeft party: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=nl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fnos.nl%2Fartikel%2F2351795-verkiezingsprogramma-groenlinks-een-boom-voor-elke-nederlander-gratis-kinderopvang.html https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=nl&tl=en&u=htt...
GeneralMayhem 6y ago
"Left of the country" doesn't mean uncompetitive. There's a incredibly vast amount of political real estate to the left of the American mainstream.
- SllX 6y ago
  Our elections are not competitive. If we were talking about two left parties competing in our “non-partisan” General elections, you would have a point, but it is Democrats top to bottom, who are only slightly distinguishable from each other in the context of San Francisco politics. In the context of California politics, they’re expected to all carry the same amount of fealty to the Unions, the State Party and its platform as any other California Democrat and in the context of Democrats nationwide, the San Francisco Democrats may as well be the bloody Borg. The Mayoral special election between London Breed, Mark Leno and Jane Kim could be called “competitive”, but no matter who won (London won), the trajectory and policies of the City would have remained effectively the same with the only difference being who could advance their career that year. Or to put it another way, it is a very competitive environment as long as you are a Democrat, but it is not an ideologically or politically competitive environment and the policies of the City government are stagnant (Fix homelessness! Save Muni! Stop car break-ins! Build more housing but only the right kind, maybe! etc.). This is unlikely to change under single party rule.
  - sagarm 6y ago
    There's significant daylight between the prog and moderate coalitions in SF -- at least if you care about anything on their platforms. Again, if your focus is policing people's sex lives and consensual relationships, it'll all look the same to you.
    - SllX 6y ago
      Moderates and Progressives war over small differences because they are in competition with each other, even if the type of competition is in its nature internal to the power struggles within the Democratic Party. If you can’t distinguish yourself from the pack in some small ways, it’s going to be harder for you to win elections. Taking that back to the Special Mayoral election, London Breed managed to do just that, over Mark Leno and Jane Kim who had this kind of mutual endorsement deal going on exploiting the nature of the ranked choice voting. But it is a power struggle internal to the Democratic Party. Sure you have different people with different ideas about where to go, what to do, but overall the trajectory is largely the same, and to be frank, it isn’t a direction I like. I still don’t know if I was naïve in hitching my wagon to the Democratic Party when I came of age, if I was never really in agreement with it, or of it just left me, and I’ve been trying to figure that out. What I do know is that there’s no place for me in it anymore, but whether I was naïve before, then and now, they’re still the only game in town and the combination of Ranked-Choice Voting and Open Primaries is further cementing them both here and in localities around here. I have my ballot in front of me, and for every race below President, it is virtually indistinguishable from a Democratic primary ballot because that is in effect what our General elections around here have become, a question of whose career do you want to advance or maintain under the auspices of this particular party banner? > Again, if your focus is policing people's sex lives and consensual relationships, it'll all look the same to you. Since nobody has mentioned anything of the like in this comment chain, I’m forced to conclude you’re making certain assumptions about me and insinuating something unsavory there. Maybe my conclusion is wrong, you tell me. Unfortunately for you, that’s never been something I gave a crap about. I’m not some bloody transplant weirded out by the Castro, I grew up in the Castro, and for the moment it is still my home.

by SllX 6y ago

Competition between Democrats in the Generals each carrying water for the party does not make for competitive elections. Even the moderates in SF are to the left of the State and Country.

conception 6y ago

Moderate politicians of the world are to the left of the state and country.

SllX 6y ago
Unfortunately for the world.
osobear 6y ago
Depends on issue but usually no. Bernie Sanders would not be moderate in Europe, and mainstream Democrats (increasingly) would not be either.
- TMWNN 6y ago
  I wish more people would understand this. Those (both American leftists, and Europeans who listen to them) who say that "Democrats in the US would be right wing in Europe/Canada" have to (for example) then agree that all major political parties in Canada and every European country outside the UK and Ireland are right of US Democrats, because there is no significant opposition to voter ID laws anywhere. Macron's Les Republicains got elected because voters liked his vow to get tough on unions and union pensions, and privatize more infrastructure, neither of which appears in Biden's campaign platform. Speaking of which, several European countries have privatized post offices; not just telecom companies that were parts of PTTs, but entire postal services. It is the rare European country that hasn't sold off at least part of their postal services. The EU explicitly requires postal monopolies to end in member states; whether government-owned or not, EU postal services do not have the USPS's monopoly on first-class mail. Yet no major party in the US seriously talks about privatizing the USPS.[1] Does this mean that American politics is "far to the left" of that of Germany and the UK, both of which have completely sold off their postal services to private investors? [1] 1 And no, it's not because of the Constitution. Article I Section 8 only gives Congress the authority "To establish Post Offices", as opposed to requiring a government-run one. Certainly nothing in the Constitution mandates the USPS's first-class mail monopoly.
  - pas 6y ago
    EU market liberalization makes sense because there are already at least 20+ would be competitors for almost everything. I have no idea how well this turned out in practice, especially considering that market harmonization/standardization is a basically a must have to have efficiency at scale. The big difference seems to be healthcare and education. Where there's a primary state funded/owned/operated/mandated provider/option. Which sort of helps with keeping a ceiling on prices. But at the same time youth unemployment was (and probably still is) very high, despite easy access to higher education. US unemployment rates reached its low point before covid19 probably because so much is tied to employment and there are so few restrictions on hiring and firing folks compared to some "average/median" EU jurisdiction. Then of course there are very real far right parties with power too, so yeah, it's a lot less true that US Dems are so right of Europe politics. While at the same time a very authoritarian group runs the current US federal show, with a very real chance of that continuing, which unfortunately doesn't help with the polarization of politics.
- pas 6y ago
  Free higher ed and healthcare? That's pretty bog standard centrist/moderate these days in Europe.
apexalpha 6y ago
For your reference: a news article about the new campaign of GreenLeft party: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=nl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fnos.nl%2Fartikel%2F2351795-verkiezingsprogramma-groenlinks-een-boom-voor-elke-nederlander-gratis-kinderopvang.html https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=nl&tl=en&u=htt...

GeneralMayhem 6y ago

"Left of the country" doesn't mean uncompetitive. There's a incredibly vast amount of political real estate to the left of the American mainstream.

SllX 6y ago
Our elections are not competitive. If we were talking about two left parties competing in our “non-partisan” General elections, you would have a point, but it is Democrats top to bottom, who are only slightly distinguishable from each other in the context of San Francisco politics. In the context of California politics, they’re expected to all carry the same amount of fealty to the Unions, the State Party and its platform as any other California Democrat and in the context of Democrats nationwide, the San Francisco Democrats may as well be the bloody Borg. The Mayoral special election between London Breed, Mark Leno and Jane Kim could be called “competitive”, but no matter who won (London won), the trajectory and policies of the City would have remained effectively the same with the only difference being who could advance their career that year. Or to put it another way, it is a very competitive environment as long as you are a Democrat, but it is not an ideologically or politically competitive environment and the policies of the City government are stagnant (Fix homelessness! Save Muni! Stop car break-ins! Build more housing but only the right kind, maybe! etc.). This is unlikely to change under single party rule.
- sagarm 6y ago
  There's significant daylight between the prog and moderate coalitions in SF -- at least if you care about anything on their platforms. Again, if your focus is policing people's sex lives and consensual relationships, it'll all look the same to you.
  - SllX 6y ago
    Moderates and Progressives war over small differences because they are in competition with each other, even if the type of competition is in its nature internal to the power struggles within the Democratic Party. If you can’t distinguish yourself from the pack in some small ways, it’s going to be harder for you to win elections. Taking that back to the Special Mayoral election, London Breed managed to do just that, over Mark Leno and Jane Kim who had this kind of mutual endorsement deal going on exploiting the nature of the ranked choice voting. But it is a power struggle internal to the Democratic Party. Sure you have different people with different ideas about where to go, what to do, but overall the trajectory is largely the same, and to be frank, it isn’t a direction I like. I still don’t know if I was naïve in hitching my wagon to the Democratic Party when I came of age, if I was never really in agreement with it, or of it just left me, and I’ve been trying to figure that out. What I do know is that there’s no place for me in it anymore, but whether I was naïve before, then and now, they’re still the only game in town and the combination of Ranked-Choice Voting and Open Primaries is further cementing them both here and in localities around here. I have my ballot in front of me, and for every race below President, it is virtually indistinguishable from a Democratic primary ballot because that is in effect what our General elections around here have become, a question of whose career do you want to advance or maintain under the auspices of this particular party banner? > Again, if your focus is policing people's sex lives and consensual relationships, it'll all look the same to you. Since nobody has mentioned anything of the like in this comment chain, I’m forced to conclude you’re making certain assumptions about me and insinuating something unsavory there. Maybe my conclusion is wrong, you tell me. Unfortunately for you, that’s never been something I gave a crap about. I’m not some bloody transplant weirded out by the Castro, I grew up in the Castro, and for the moment it is still my home.