11 ms·

>when you open several windows with the same application (like when you open several LibreOffice documents), the Task Manager will group them together. This is

>when you open several windows with the same application (like when you open several LibreOffice documents), the Task Manager will group them together. This is exactly the opposite of what I want. Why don't the designers of 21st-century desktop environments understand that my 3 PDF files have nothing to do with one another? The same goes for my terminals, my text buffers, my web pages.... Why group things that are involved in unrelated tasks?

seego 6y ago
Why configure it when it denies an opportunity to rant?
- mac01021 6y ago
  Well, I can do both.... :) Configure for my own use, and rant about the predominance of an inferior way of thinking. And, with less-configurable DEs, ranting (or being silently tolerant) is the only option.
Shared404 6y ago
It's KDE, so I would guess that it's fairly simple to configure to not do that. Haven't used this version though, so what do I know. Edit: It says about two lines down that it's configurable.
cies 6y ago
Since it's KDE you can switch this feature off :) You may be looking for activities (they are useful to group related tasks together).
thomond 6y ago
> This is exactly the opposite of what I want. Well maybe it's what everyone else wants. Either way it's just the default they're changing, one good thing about grouping in Plasma is it lets you exclude certain applications so you can exclude your PDF viewer. Alot of other environments give an all or nothing approach.
- amelius 6y ago
  > Well maybe it's what everyone else wants. Could you give an argument for why someone would want it?
  - Pet_Ant 6y ago
    Because it takes up less real estate and I know what app I’m looking for. I don’t have separate windows for all my Firefox tabs even though you could consider them to belong to 5 or 6 different categories.
    - skeletal88 6y ago
      Why not let the application decide, like with browser tabs? I absolutely hate it that the default for Gnome is to group all windows of the same application together under the same icon. When I have multiple terminals open, then they are in no way related. I want a specific one. Like writing code in an editor and a terminal for running the application or compiling, and then another one for some shell access.
      - axelf4 6y ago
        Gnome is also incredibly slow to allow one to select a particular window when Alt-Tabbing. It is a one second delay every time you want to change window.
      - Pet_Ant 6y ago
        > Why not let the application decide, like with browser tabs? That means you need to wait for each application to add support for it whereas here it is the window manager. What you want it seems is to group the windows by workflow. You can do what. Use a different desktop per workflow. I have 1 main 2 reference 3 utilities Then set your task bar to only show windows from the current desktop.
    - madprops 6y ago
      A nice solution is to simply put each icon/task of the same application side by side, so for instance you get 3 firefox icons in a row in the taskbar/dock, that's what I do, there's enough space anyway. That way you can quickly tell what's open and switch to them.
jankotek 6y ago
KDE is quite good at customizing this stuff. You can pin documents and windows to Workspace or Activity. It even remembers this config between sessions.
- Aardwolf 6y ago
  Are you sure KDE is that good at customizing stuff? I hated the fact that it displays a huge speaker icon in the middle of the screen whenever adjusting volume, I know I adjust volume, I don't need to see it in the middle of the screen every time, this is a productivity computer, not a television. The only way I found to disable that behavior was to change some javascript code somewhere within KDE. But everytime I update archlinux, it was restored and I had to apply my change again! There's no normal setting or config file to turn it off... I'm using Cinnamon now though, that one is much better at just being exactly how it should be (= KDE 3.5-ish) and not changing in annoying ways all the time. Or running undesired, not easy to disable, CPU hogging "nepomuk" and other oddly named things in the background. Or being too integrated with other software like PIM stuff, while all I want is a good window manager.
  - jankotek 6y ago
    Yes, it is great compared to alternatives. Release linked here reworked on screen notifications. So that sound problem may be fixed. Otherwise you can change association for volume keys and use your own command. You can uninstall nepomuk etc..
    - aruggirello 6y ago
      I don't think he's referring to notifications, but to those visual feedback icons that show up in the middle of the screen whenever you change brightness or volume (or mute sound) via keyboard.
      - jankotek 6y ago
        》On-screen displays that appear when changing the volume or display brightness (for example) have been redesigned to be less obtrusive
purerandomness 6y ago
The update won't change your settings.
vvillena 6y ago
It's just one more setting for the already extremely configurable Task Manager. For new users, it changes a default (the option to group is already there, with an extra toggle that activates it only when the task bar is full). I think the "cycle window on click" is a new option. KDE is all about giving lots of options to users, but at the same time they aren't afraid to experiment and change its defaults to try to appeal to first-time users. In this case, window groups is a nice default that avoids scrolling or too-small buttons.
- vdfs 6y ago
  Before this KDE grouped them by default when task bar is full, it's one of the settings you have to change which take about 2 seconds. It's impossible to make a DE that fit all tastes with default settings, that's why we have settings
apetresc 6y ago
I believe you're meant to be using virtual desktop/workspaces to group tasks (which each have their own task bar), and then within a workspace they get grouped.
bradstewart 6y ago
It is what I want. All depends on how you work. If I have several PDFs open at once, they're related. I'm not doing my taxes, reading hardware docs, and filing insurance forms at the same time.
qwerty456127 6y ago
I get you point (it's perfectly valid and I even believe I can feel what you feel) but as for me I want it to be "one app = one icon" (same icon used to launch, minimize and activate any of the windows of the same app) and it drives me crazy no Linux DE other than KDE and good old Unity support this. I wish LXDE (the Raspberry Pi default), LXQt and XFCE didn't insist the Windows95 way of having separate buttons to launch and to minimize/activate a running app (which feels untidy to me) is the only correct way. C'mon, it's been a long since Windows 7 and Ubuntu Unity appeared, why keep emulating Windows 95?
- qwerty456127 6y ago
  Today, working on a Windows 10 machine at the office, I've actually realized strict "one app = one icon" scheme, with every window of the same app hidden under one button, isn't actually convenient for me either. It makes switching between different documents (with the mouse) too much hassle: click/hover on the button, wait for the documents list to pop up, click the one you want - that's too much. Single-click can actually be handier in many cases. But I still want the same button to launch and to represent a running app. And an extra button to be added right after the main one when a second window of the same app gets opened. This is can be achieve on Windows using an easy hack[1], despite there seemingly is no "official" way. https://www.sevenforums.com/customization/22606-make-taskbar-never-combine-but-hide-labels.html https://www.sevenforums.com/customization/22606-make-taskbar... I hope this is going to be added to KDE as well.
gosukiwi 6y ago
Well, on Windows, you just move the cursor over the group and then you get a detailed list, so you still do the same with the same number of clicks, almost the same amount of motion, and less screen space. I think it's a pretty good UX.
- eitland 6y ago
  Exist on KDE too :-)
sergeykish 6y ago
I use xmonad, windows grouped in virtual workspaces by task. 1 - quick browsing 2 - development (editor and browser) 3...7 - if "development" accumulates too many windows (uncomfortable) and I don't want to close them yet, subset I work with pushed to next number (or subset I want to investigate later) 8 - audio 9 - servers It exits, it is not mainstream.

seego 6y ago

Why configure it when it denies an opportunity to rant?

mac01021 6y ago
Well, I can do both.... :) Configure for my own use, and rant about the predominance of an inferior way of thinking. And, with less-configurable DEs, ranting (or being silently tolerant) is the only option.

Shared404 6y ago

It's KDE, so I would guess that it's fairly simple to configure to not do that. Haven't used this version though, so what do I know. Edit: It says about two lines down that it's configurable.

cies 6y ago

Since it's KDE you can switch this feature off :) You may be looking for activities (they are useful to group related tasks together).

thomond 6y ago

> This is exactly the opposite of what I want. Well maybe it's what everyone else wants. Either way it's just the default they're changing, one good thing about grouping in Plasma is it lets you exclude certain applications so you can exclude your PDF viewer. Alot of other environments give an all or nothing approach.

amelius 6y ago
> Well maybe it's what everyone else wants. Could you give an argument for why someone would want it?
- Pet_Ant 6y ago
  Because it takes up less real estate and I know what app I’m looking for. I don’t have separate windows for all my Firefox tabs even though you could consider them to belong to 5 or 6 different categories.
  - skeletal88 6y ago
    Why not let the application decide, like with browser tabs? I absolutely hate it that the default for Gnome is to group all windows of the same application together under the same icon. When I have multiple terminals open, then they are in no way related. I want a specific one. Like writing code in an editor and a terminal for running the application or compiling, and then another one for some shell access.
    - axelf4 6y ago
      Gnome is also incredibly slow to allow one to select a particular window when Alt-Tabbing. It is a one second delay every time you want to change window.
    - Pet_Ant 6y ago
      > Why not let the application decide, like with browser tabs? That means you need to wait for each application to add support for it whereas here it is the window manager. What you want it seems is to group the windows by workflow. You can do what. Use a different desktop per workflow. I have 1 main 2 reference 3 utilities Then set your task bar to only show windows from the current desktop.
  - madprops 6y ago
    A nice solution is to simply put each icon/task of the same application side by side, so for instance you get 3 firefox icons in a row in the taskbar/dock, that's what I do, there's enough space anyway. That way you can quickly tell what's open and switch to them.

jankotek 6y ago

KDE is quite good at customizing this stuff. You can pin documents and windows to Workspace or Activity. It even remembers this config between sessions.

Aardwolf 6y ago
Are you sure KDE is that good at customizing stuff? I hated the fact that it displays a huge speaker icon in the middle of the screen whenever adjusting volume, I know I adjust volume, I don't need to see it in the middle of the screen every time, this is a productivity computer, not a television. The only way I found to disable that behavior was to change some javascript code somewhere within KDE. But everytime I update archlinux, it was restored and I had to apply my change again! There's no normal setting or config file to turn it off... I'm using Cinnamon now though, that one is much better at just being exactly how it should be (= KDE 3.5-ish) and not changing in annoying ways all the time. Or running undesired, not easy to disable, CPU hogging "nepomuk" and other oddly named things in the background. Or being too integrated with other software like PIM stuff, while all I want is a good window manager.
- jankotek 6y ago
  Yes, it is great compared to alternatives. Release linked here reworked on screen notifications. So that sound problem may be fixed. Otherwise you can change association for volume keys and use your own command. You can uninstall nepomuk etc..
  - aruggirello 6y ago
    I don't think he's referring to notifications, but to those visual feedback icons that show up in the middle of the screen whenever you change brightness or volume (or mute sound) via keyboard.
    - jankotek 6y ago
      》On-screen displays that appear when changing the volume or display brightness (for example) have been redesigned to be less obtrusive

purerandomness 6y ago

The update won't change your settings.

vvillena 6y ago

It's just one more setting for the already extremely configurable Task Manager. For new users, it changes a default (the option to group is already there, with an extra toggle that activates it only when the task bar is full). I think the "cycle window on click" is a new option. KDE is all about giving lots of options to users, but at the same time they aren't afraid to experiment and change its defaults to try to appeal to first-time users. In this case, window groups is a nice default that avoids scrolling or too-small buttons.

vdfs 6y ago
Before this KDE grouped them by default when task bar is full, it's one of the settings you have to change which take about 2 seconds. It's impossible to make a DE that fit all tastes with default settings, that's why we have settings

apetresc 6y ago

I believe you're meant to be using virtual desktop/workspaces to group tasks (which each have their own task bar), and then within a workspace they get grouped.

bradstewart 6y ago

It is what I want. All depends on how you work. If I have several PDFs open at once, they're related. I'm not doing my taxes, reading hardware docs, and filing insurance forms at the same time.

qwerty456127 6y ago

I get you point (it's perfectly valid and I even believe I can feel what you feel) but as for me I want it to be "one app = one icon" (same icon used to launch, minimize and activate any of the windows of the same app) and it drives me crazy no Linux DE other than KDE and good old Unity support this. I wish LXDE (the Raspberry Pi default), LXQt and XFCE didn't insist the Windows95 way of having separate buttons to launch and to minimize/activate a running app (which feels untidy to me) is the only correct way. C'mon, it's been a long since Windows 7 and Ubuntu Unity appeared, why keep emulating Windows 95?

qwerty456127 6y ago
Today, working on a Windows 10 machine at the office, I've actually realized strict "one app = one icon" scheme, with every window of the same app hidden under one button, isn't actually convenient for me either. It makes switching between different documents (with the mouse) too much hassle: click/hover on the button, wait for the documents list to pop up, click the one you want - that's too much. Single-click can actually be handier in many cases. But I still want the same button to launch and to represent a running app. And an extra button to be added right after the main one when a second window of the same app gets opened. This is can be achieve on Windows using an easy hack[1], despite there seemingly is no "official" way. https://www.sevenforums.com/customization/22606-make-taskbar-never-combine-but-hide-labels.html https://www.sevenforums.com/customization/22606-make-taskbar... I hope this is going to be added to KDE as well.

gosukiwi 6y ago

Well, on Windows, you just move the cursor over the group and then you get a detailed list, so you still do the same with the same number of clicks, almost the same amount of motion, and less screen space. I think it's a pretty good UX.

eitland 6y ago
Exist on KDE too :-)

sergeykish 6y ago

I use xmonad, windows grouped in virtual workspaces by task. 1 - quick browsing 2 - development (editor and browser) 3...7 - if "development" accumulates too many windows (uncomfortable) and I don't want to close them yet, subset I work with pushed to next number (or subset I want to investigate later) 8 - audio 9 - servers It exits, it is not mainstream.