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The list of companies announcing permanent remote work policy changes grows by the week. The hope for a quick return to normal continues to fade into 2021. On-s

The list of companies announcing permanent remote work policy changes grows by the week. The hope for a quick return to normal continues to fade into 2021. On-site will certainly make a big comeback at some point and the Economist will no doubt write about it breathlessly. But things have changed and the future is not going to look like the past. The economy will redistribute prices and labor and there will eventually be a new normal. I agree with the article that we will eventually be better for it, but in the short term it will hurt many.

ryandrake 6y ago
This "return to normal" narrative is starting to make less and less sense to me. It presupposes that there is this one special, immutable state called Normal defined as "exactly as life was right before the pandemic", and that we have to somehow get back to precisely that state. It's looking more and more like this deadly virus is going to be part of our lives for months or years to come, if not decades. So, instead of ignoring reality and trying in vain to get back to this idealized "ISO standard normal," maybe we are going to have to change our definition of normal. We're going to have to normalize things like WFH, wearing masks, social distancing, avoiding large indoor gatherings, instead of treating them as temporary measures. The world changes, and our concept of normal will necessarily change along with it.
- StanLindsey 6y ago
  I read it as returning to that feeling of normality. I won't think it'll go back to as it was before but when we as a society have high confidence in generally what we expect the near/medium term future to look likw, then it's a the new normal.
- wenc 6y ago
  I'm an optimist -- I think with the arrival of multiple vaccines of varying efficacies, potentially needing to be "boosted" or recalibrated at varying frequencies, coupled with cheap/fast/accurate tests and a supply chain that can keep up, I'm confident we can get to a state which resembled the previous in at least a few important ways: social interaction is sufficiently derisked that social gatherings can resume, travel will pick up again, large gathering places like schools can go back to in-person if not at 100% capacity, then maybe at 80-90%. WFH will likely persist. I personally miss going to conferences. It won't be the same (no period is ever exactly the same as some period in the past), but it will have some of the same qualities as the world in 2019. That's my hope.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  > It's looking more and more like this deadly virus is going to be part of our lives for months or years to come, if not decades I don't understand this attitude. No, we will go back to normal. This cannot continue forever. We cannot live the rest of our lives in fear. This is not how we evolved and I'm honestly sick of it. There is growing evidence that there is immunity out there beyond antibodies; including memory T-cells. It's likely we'll be fine long before a vaccine is produced, through a combination of herd immunity and just better therapeutics (there are some big studies on inhaled steroids right now that are promising). Mississippi, Florida and other states are starting to go back to normal without any increase in fatalities (and don't go on about cases, because there is no distinction between people who test positive and people who test positive because they've actually been sick). Fatalities are going down across the board. Exponential growth does not go on forever. It ends. Things should have been back to normal months ago. All these lockdowns have just delayed the inevitable. When this is over and we can prune all the data, I expect to see the same fatality rates between countries that did and didn't lock down, excluding places like NYC, northern Italy, Michigan and other places where we put all the elderly people together. In 2030, we'll look back at this as a time of overreaction and mass hysteria.
  - throwmeaway_pls 6y ago
    Agreed, we are living through a mass hysteria event. The shared delusion is that through moral acts one can somehow avoid exposure to an endemic human coronavirus.
    - pbourke 6y ago
      > moral acts You spelled "wear a mask and avoid crowds" wrong.
  - 10000truths 6y ago
    > I don't understand this attitude. No, we will go back to normal. This cannot continue forever. We cannot live the rest of our lives in fear. This is not how we evolved and I'm honestly sick of it. It's not about living in fear, it's about not catching the virus. The facts are that COVID-19 is still out there actively infecting people, deaths are still climbing at more or less a steady rate, and it doesn't really care about how you or anyone else feels about it. Many a school has opened under the rationale of "we can't just hide from it forever", only to go into shutdown again because of the inevitable outbreak that occurs when a bunch of kids are packed like sardines into a hallway or classroom environment. > Mississippi, Florida and other states are starting to go back to normal without any increase in fatalities (and don't go on about cases, because there is no distinction between people who test positive and people who test positive because they've actually been sick). Fatalities are going down across the board. Exponential growth does not go on forever. It ends. Just because COVID-19 isn't immediately fatal doesn't make it harmless. What are the rates of reinfection, and how does that impact a patient? What are the chronic effects of being infected, if any? You may have a cavalier attitude about the virus's effects, but plenty others (including the elderly, infants, the immunocompromised, etc.) do not, and the virus doesn't discriminate between who cares about it and who doesn't. It is far better to be overly cautious than not cautious enough in such a case, even if it comes at the expense of inconvenience.
- grillvogel 6y ago
  >this deadly virus the deadly virus with the extremely high survival rate? >maybe we are going to have to change our definition of normal no we won't. things returned to normal after much more serious pandemics. people are already realizing the risks of this virus were oversold and starting to move on.
  - staplers 6y ago
    > extremely high survival rate COVID-19 is (so far) about 10x-20x deadlier than the common flu which we have vaccines for and approaching about half of the total death toll of the 1918 flu which is considered the deadliest in modern history. What is your basis for "extremely high survival rate"?
    - Spivak 6y ago
      I guess people see ~2% death rate and assume that's low?
      - COVardsStayHome 6y ago
        From where did you pull out 2%? Out of your ass fucking retard?
    - floren 6y ago
      > approaching about half of the total death toll of the 1918 flu Approaching half of 17-50 million dead?
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        "We" is the United States here, right? > In the U.S., about 28% of the population of 105 million became infected, and 500,000 to 850,000 died (0.48 to 0.81 percent of the population).[129][130][131] We're pretty close to half of 500k.
      - beckingz 6y ago
        Growth mindset.
foobiekr 6y ago
It is amazing to me that anyone takes the "permanent" thing seriously. It's as permanent as the current management regime. If they ever decide to change it, it will no longer be "permanent." Statements without penalties have effectively no stickiness. 100% of corporate policies should be viewed as ending with an implicit "for now."

ryandrake 6y ago

This "return to normal" narrative is starting to make less and less sense to me. It presupposes that there is this one special, immutable state called Normal defined as "exactly as life was right before the pandemic", and that we have to somehow get back to precisely that state. It's looking more and more like this deadly virus is going to be part of our lives for months or years to come, if not decades. So, instead of ignoring reality and trying in vain to get back to this idealized "ISO standard normal," maybe we are going to have to change our definition of normal. We're going to have to normalize things like WFH, wearing masks, social distancing, avoiding large indoor gatherings, instead of treating them as temporary measures. The world changes, and our concept of normal will necessarily change along with it.

StanLindsey 6y ago
I read it as returning to that feeling of normality. I won't think it'll go back to as it was before but when we as a society have high confidence in generally what we expect the near/medium term future to look likw, then it's a the new normal.
wenc 6y ago
I'm an optimist -- I think with the arrival of multiple vaccines of varying efficacies, potentially needing to be "boosted" or recalibrated at varying frequencies, coupled with cheap/fast/accurate tests and a supply chain that can keep up, I'm confident we can get to a state which resembled the previous in at least a few important ways: social interaction is sufficiently derisked that social gatherings can resume, travel will pick up again, large gathering places like schools can go back to in-person if not at 100% capacity, then maybe at 80-90%. WFH will likely persist. I personally miss going to conferences. It won't be the same (no period is ever exactly the same as some period in the past), but it will have some of the same qualities as the world in 2019. That's my hope.
djsumdog 6y ago
> It's looking more and more like this deadly virus is going to be part of our lives for months or years to come, if not decades I don't understand this attitude. No, we will go back to normal. This cannot continue forever. We cannot live the rest of our lives in fear. This is not how we evolved and I'm honestly sick of it. There is growing evidence that there is immunity out there beyond antibodies; including memory T-cells. It's likely we'll be fine long before a vaccine is produced, through a combination of herd immunity and just better therapeutics (there are some big studies on inhaled steroids right now that are promising). Mississippi, Florida and other states are starting to go back to normal without any increase in fatalities (and don't go on about cases, because there is no distinction between people who test positive and people who test positive because they've actually been sick). Fatalities are going down across the board. Exponential growth does not go on forever. It ends. Things should have been back to normal months ago. All these lockdowns have just delayed the inevitable. When this is over and we can prune all the data, I expect to see the same fatality rates between countries that did and didn't lock down, excluding places like NYC, northern Italy, Michigan and other places where we put all the elderly people together. In 2030, we'll look back at this as a time of overreaction and mass hysteria.
- throwmeaway_pls 6y ago
  Agreed, we are living through a mass hysteria event. The shared delusion is that through moral acts one can somehow avoid exposure to an endemic human coronavirus.
  - pbourke 6y ago
    > moral acts You spelled "wear a mask and avoid crowds" wrong.
- 10000truths 6y ago
  > I don't understand this attitude. No, we will go back to normal. This cannot continue forever. We cannot live the rest of our lives in fear. This is not how we evolved and I'm honestly sick of it. It's not about living in fear, it's about not catching the virus. The facts are that COVID-19 is still out there actively infecting people, deaths are still climbing at more or less a steady rate, and it doesn't really care about how you or anyone else feels about it. Many a school has opened under the rationale of "we can't just hide from it forever", only to go into shutdown again because of the inevitable outbreak that occurs when a bunch of kids are packed like sardines into a hallway or classroom environment. > Mississippi, Florida and other states are starting to go back to normal without any increase in fatalities (and don't go on about cases, because there is no distinction between people who test positive and people who test positive because they've actually been sick). Fatalities are going down across the board. Exponential growth does not go on forever. It ends. Just because COVID-19 isn't immediately fatal doesn't make it harmless. What are the rates of reinfection, and how does that impact a patient? What are the chronic effects of being infected, if any? You may have a cavalier attitude about the virus's effects, but plenty others (including the elderly, infants, the immunocompromised, etc.) do not, and the virus doesn't discriminate between who cares about it and who doesn't. It is far better to be overly cautious than not cautious enough in such a case, even if it comes at the expense of inconvenience.
grillvogel 6y ago
>this deadly virus the deadly virus with the extremely high survival rate? >maybe we are going to have to change our definition of normal no we won't. things returned to normal after much more serious pandemics. people are already realizing the risks of this virus were oversold and starting to move on.
- staplers 6y ago
  > extremely high survival rate COVID-19 is (so far) about 10x-20x deadlier than the common flu which we have vaccines for and approaching about half of the total death toll of the 1918 flu which is considered the deadliest in modern history. What is your basis for "extremely high survival rate"?
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I guess people see ~2% death rate and assume that's low?
    - COVardsStayHome 6y ago
      From where did you pull out 2%? Out of your ass fucking retard?
  - floren 6y ago
    > approaching about half of the total death toll of the 1918 flu Approaching half of 17-50 million dead?
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      "We" is the United States here, right? > In the U.S., about 28% of the population of 105 million became infected, and 500,000 to 850,000 died (0.48 to 0.81 percent of the population).[129][130][131] We're pretty close to half of 500k.
    - beckingz 6y ago
      Growth mindset.

foobiekr 6y ago

It is amazing to me that anyone takes the "permanent" thing seriously. It's as permanent as the current management regime. If they ever decide to change it, it will no longer be "permanent." Statements without penalties have effectively no stickiness. 100% of corporate policies should be viewed as ending with an implicit "for now."