6 ms·

Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. They're actually really dangerous for them - potentially lethal

by Igelau 6y ago

Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. They're actually really dangerous for them - potentially lethal.

nrmitchi 6y ago
And most vehicles have methods to disable airbags when the item/person occupying the seat can not safely handle it. But if you want to get real sad, IIRC many airbag systems are not designed with an occupant outside the parameters of a typical adult male in mind. Some modern systems are getting better about this, but if you're too short, too tall, a woman, or other-wise-outside-of-the-norm, good luck.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  What goes wrong with a woman that is the expected size?
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    Very few women are of the expected size (5' 9" tall) aimed to represent the average male; most women automatically falls into the "too short / other-wise-outside-of-the-norm" as far as car safety testing was concerned until recently - AFAIK cars made since 2012 should be also tested on smaller, female-sized dummies which also created an incentive to alter how they are built.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      Well if that's it then making a list of "too short, too tall, a woman" is double-counting. Also if you take it as exactly 5'9" then airbags aren't suitable for men either. What you need to do is examine the range it's designed for. It's not the average height that matters, it's what percent of men/women fall inside that range. There might be a significant difference in that percent, or there might not be.
      - kaitai 6y ago
        That analysis has been done, and there is a significant difference in that amount. You can back-of-the-envelope it yourself if you know that the average height of a woman in the US is 5'4" with a standard deviation of about 3.5".
      - andrewaylett 6y ago
        There is no such thing as an "average" person: https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...
- lathiat 6y ago
  It's worth noting that here in Australia cars have no such method, and you are not allowed to put a car seat in the front seat. Equally when travelling as best I can tell all European cars have a method to do this and you can install in the front seat. So this probably varies by country, but I am not sure which countries have what or where the USA is. Without specifically checking I imagine that the Australian Design Rules basically wouldn't allow them to add the option even if they wanted to - if I had to guess because you're not allowed to have such a disable button (which you could argue could also be dangerous in some cases if pressed or used when it shouldn't be).
theginger 6y ago
I suspect they were in the process of disabling the airbag when this all kicked off.
u801e 6y ago
> Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. According to FMVSS 208, they're tested using an unbelted 50th percentile size male dummy. That's the reason they deploy with more force and are triggered at lower impact speed had they been designed with belted occupants of varying sizes in mind.
- t0mas88 6y ago
  They are tested without belts to ensure the airbag doesn't kill idiots not wearing their belts. But on all modern cars they're designed to work together with the seatbelts. If you unplug the cable at the bottom of a BMW seat (so it doesn't know the seat occupancy and belts) it will disable the airbag and show an airbag light.

by Igelau 6y ago

Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. They're actually really dangerous for them - potentially lethal.

nrmitchi 6y ago

And most vehicles have methods to disable airbags when the item/person occupying the seat can not safely handle it. But if you want to get real sad, IIRC many airbag systems are not designed with an occupant outside the parameters of a typical adult male in mind. Some modern systems are getting better about this, but if you're too short, too tall, a woman, or other-wise-outside-of-the-norm, good luck.

Dylan16807 6y ago
What goes wrong with a woman that is the expected size?
- PeterisP 6y ago
  Very few women are of the expected size (5' 9" tall) aimed to represent the average male; most women automatically falls into the "too short / other-wise-outside-of-the-norm" as far as car safety testing was concerned until recently - AFAIK cars made since 2012 should be also tested on smaller, female-sized dummies which also created an incentive to alter how they are built.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    Well if that's it then making a list of "too short, too tall, a woman" is double-counting. Also if you take it as exactly 5'9" then airbags aren't suitable for men either. What you need to do is examine the range it's designed for. It's not the average height that matters, it's what percent of men/women fall inside that range. There might be a significant difference in that percent, or there might not be.
    - kaitai 6y ago
      That analysis has been done, and there is a significant difference in that amount. You can back-of-the-envelope it yourself if you know that the average height of a woman in the US is 5'4" with a standard deviation of about 3.5".
    - andrewaylett 6y ago
      There is no such thing as an "average" person: https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...
lathiat 6y ago
It's worth noting that here in Australia cars have no such method, and you are not allowed to put a car seat in the front seat. Equally when travelling as best I can tell all European cars have a method to do this and you can install in the front seat. So this probably varies by country, but I am not sure which countries have what or where the USA is. Without specifically checking I imagine that the Australian Design Rules basically wouldn't allow them to add the option even if they wanted to - if I had to guess because you're not allowed to have such a disable button (which you could argue could also be dangerous in some cases if pressed or used when it shouldn't be).

theginger 6y ago

I suspect they were in the process of disabling the airbag when this all kicked off.

u801e 6y ago

> Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. According to FMVSS 208, they're tested using an unbelted 50th percentile size male dummy. That's the reason they deploy with more force and are triggered at lower impact speed had they been designed with belted occupants of varying sizes in mind.

t0mas88 6y ago
They are tested without belts to ensure the airbag doesn't kill idiots not wearing their belts. But on all modern cars they're designed to work together with the seatbelts. If you unplug the cable at the bottom of a BMW seat (so it doesn't know the seat occupancy and belts) it will disable the airbag and show an airbag light.