7 ms·

does it have a back seat?

lisper 6y ago
Some do. https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso But what difference does that make? Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?
- Igelau 6y ago
  Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. They're actually really dangerous for them - potentially lethal.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    And most vehicles have methods to disable airbags when the item/person occupying the seat can not safely handle it. But if you want to get real sad, IIRC many airbag systems are not designed with an occupant outside the parameters of a typical adult male in mind. Some modern systems are getting better about this, but if you're too short, too tall, a woman, or other-wise-outside-of-the-norm, good luck.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      What goes wrong with a woman that is the expected size?
      - PeterisP 6y ago
        Very few women are of the expected size (5' 9" tall) aimed to represent the average male; most women automatically falls into the "too short / other-wise-outside-of-the-norm" as far as car safety testing was concerned until recently - AFAIK cars made since 2012 should be also tested on smaller, female-sized dummies which also created an incentive to alter how they are built.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        Well if that's it then making a list of "too short, too tall, a woman" is double-counting. Also if you take it as exactly 5'9" then airbags aren't suitable for men either. What you need to do is examine the range it's designed for. It's not the average height that matters, it's what percent of men/women fall inside that range. There might be a significant difference in that percent, or there might not be.
        kaitai 6y ago
        That analysis has been done, and there is a significant difference in that amount. You can back-of-the-envelope it yourself if you know that the average height of a woman in the US is 5'4" with a standard deviation of about 3.5".
        andrewaylett 6y ago
        There is no such thing as an "average" person: https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...
    - lathiat 6y ago
      It's worth noting that here in Australia cars have no such method, and you are not allowed to put a car seat in the front seat. Equally when travelling as best I can tell all European cars have a method to do this and you can install in the front seat. So this probably varies by country, but I am not sure which countries have what or where the USA is. Without specifically checking I imagine that the Australian Design Rules basically wouldn't allow them to add the option even if they wanted to - if I had to guess because you're not allowed to have such a disable button (which you could argue could also be dangerous in some cases if pressed or used when it shouldn't be).
  - theginger 6y ago
    I suspect they were in the process of disabling the airbag when this all kicked off.
  - u801e 6y ago
    > Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. According to FMVSS 208, they're tested using an unbelted 50th percentile size male dummy. That's the reason they deploy with more force and are triggered at lower impact speed had they been designed with belted occupants of varying sizes in mind.
    - t0mas88 6y ago
      They are tested without belts to ensure the airbag doesn't kill idiots not wearing their belts. But on all modern cars they're designed to work together with the seatbelts. If you unplug the cable at the bottom of a BMW seat (so it doesn't know the seat occupancy and belts) it will disable the airbag and show an airbag light.
- cornstalks 6y ago
  LMGTFY: https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/child-passenger-safety/index.html#:~:text=Buckle%20all%20children%20aged%2012%20and%20under%20in%20the%20back%20seat.&text=Airbags%20can%20kill%20young%20children,matter%20how%20short%20the%20trip https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/child-passenger-safety/i.... > Buckle all children aged 12 and under in the back seat. > - Airbags can kill young children riding in the front seat. Never place a rear-facing car seat in front of an airbag.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    Not all child seats are rear-facing child seats.
    - cornstalks 6y ago
      I didn't say they were all rear-facing. lisper asked "Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?" I don't know anything about safety of front-facing or booster seats for kids in front seats. But I think my response was a reasonable answer/example of when you wouldn't want to put a car seat in the front passenger seat.
    - saiya-jin 6y ago
      No but for tiny little newborns, all are. Something about not having proper muscle structure around spine to handle thrust forward during frontal (most common) crash. Also reason why you should never shake babies or expose them to any form of higher G. We're changing the child seat to front facing right now - our baby is 10 months old. It can be done little bit earlier but not too much.
      - agseward 6y ago
        You should actually hold off for longer > In 2018, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) released new recommendations for car seat safety. As part of these recommendations, they removed their previous age-based recommendation that children remain rear facing in car seats until the age of 2. > The AAP now suggests that children remain rear facing until they reach their rear-facing car seat’s weight/height limits which, for most children, will leave them rear-facing beyond the previous age recommendation. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/forward-facing-car-seat#timing https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/forward-f...
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  I think it’s illegal in some states, but I could be wrong.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    I do not see any where that's the case. https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/ https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/
  - mcguire 6y ago
    I find it unlikely that, if you don't have a rear seat, you cannot legally carry a child.
    - lathiat 6y ago
      It's true in Australia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24761210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24761210
nrmitchi 6y ago
First, some models do. I don't know about that particular one, because (shockingly) I don't own a Ferrari. But second, that doesn't matter. Most places do not have laws that prohibit children in the front seat of cars, only that they use appropriate child seats. Further, child seats are typically required for _children_, not just infants. IIRC, for example, in Texas, child seats are required for any child under the age of 8, unless they are taller than 4'9". It is totally reasonable for a 7 year old to want to go for a ride in their parents "fancy" car. It's actually very responsible of this person to get a child seat properly installed in order to support that.
- kofejnik 6y ago
  except that child seats are mostly safety theater, of course
  - jankiehodgpodge 6y ago
    Is there any evidence for that? I know that for example women are more likely to be injured in car crashes because most car seats/interiors are designed around the average man so if be surprised if a human half didn't need to be raised or put in a safer position.
    - kofejnik 6y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones-who-think-child-car-seats-dont-work-well/ https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones...
      - JshWright 6y ago
        So your "evidence" is a single anecdotal account from over a decade ago? Actual accident data doesn't back you up...
    - hurxnid 6y ago
CydeWeys 6y ago
Ferraris having back seats goes back to the early days of the marque: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6602/ferrari-four-seat-history-list/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6602/ferrari-four-... Not all, of course, but many do.
cromulent 6y ago
yes, the Portofino M does have back seats, although they are limited somewhat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Portofino#/media/File:Porto180323-6991besg.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Portofino#/media/File:...
Hamuko 6y ago
Not only does it have back seats, it has ISOFIX points.

Some do. https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso But what difference does that make? Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?

Igelau 6y ago
Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. They're actually really dangerous for them - potentially lethal.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  And most vehicles have methods to disable airbags when the item/person occupying the seat can not safely handle it. But if you want to get real sad, IIRC many airbag systems are not designed with an occupant outside the parameters of a typical adult male in mind. Some modern systems are getting better about this, but if you're too short, too tall, a woman, or other-wise-outside-of-the-norm, good luck.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    What goes wrong with a woman that is the expected size?
    - PeterisP 6y ago
      Very few women are of the expected size (5' 9" tall) aimed to represent the average male; most women automatically falls into the "too short / other-wise-outside-of-the-norm" as far as car safety testing was concerned until recently - AFAIK cars made since 2012 should be also tested on smaller, female-sized dummies which also created an incentive to alter how they are built.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        Well if that's it then making a list of "too short, too tall, a woman" is double-counting. Also if you take it as exactly 5'9" then airbags aren't suitable for men either. What you need to do is examine the range it's designed for. It's not the average height that matters, it's what percent of men/women fall inside that range. There might be a significant difference in that percent, or there might not be.
        kaitai 6y ago
        That analysis has been done, and there is a significant difference in that amount. You can back-of-the-envelope it yourself if you know that the average height of a woman in the US is 5'4" with a standard deviation of about 3.5".
        andrewaylett 6y ago
        There is no such thing as an "average" person: https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...
  - lathiat 6y ago
    It's worth noting that here in Australia cars have no such method, and you are not allowed to put a car seat in the front seat. Equally when travelling as best I can tell all European cars have a method to do this and you can install in the front seat. So this probably varies by country, but I am not sure which countries have what or where the USA is. Without specifically checking I imagine that the Australian Design Rules basically wouldn't allow them to add the option even if they wanted to - if I had to guess because you're not allowed to have such a disable button (which you could argue could also be dangerous in some cases if pressed or used when it shouldn't be).
- theginger 6y ago
  I suspect they were in the process of disabling the airbag when this all kicked off.
- u801e 6y ago
  > Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. According to FMVSS 208, they're tested using an unbelted 50th percentile size male dummy. That's the reason they deploy with more force and are triggered at lower impact speed had they been designed with belted occupants of varying sizes in mind.
  - t0mas88 6y ago
    They are tested without belts to ensure the airbag doesn't kill idiots not wearing their belts. But on all modern cars they're designed to work together with the seatbelts. If you unplug the cable at the bottom of a BMW seat (so it doesn't know the seat occupancy and belts) it will disable the airbag and show an airbag light.
cornstalks 6y ago
LMGTFY: https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/child-passenger-safety/index.html#:~:text=Buckle%20all%20children%20aged%2012%20and%20under%20in%20the%20back%20seat.&text=Airbags%20can%20kill%20young%20children,matter%20how%20short%20the%20trip https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/child-passenger-safety/i.... > Buckle all children aged 12 and under in the back seat. > - Airbags can kill young children riding in the front seat. Never place a rear-facing car seat in front of an airbag.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  Not all child seats are rear-facing child seats.
  - cornstalks 6y ago
    I didn't say they were all rear-facing. lisper asked "Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?" I don't know anything about safety of front-facing or booster seats for kids in front seats. But I think my response was a reasonable answer/example of when you wouldn't want to put a car seat in the front passenger seat.
  - saiya-jin 6y ago
    No but for tiny little newborns, all are. Something about not having proper muscle structure around spine to handle thrust forward during frontal (most common) crash. Also reason why you should never shake babies or expose them to any form of higher G. We're changing the child seat to front facing right now - our baby is 10 months old. It can be done little bit earlier but not too much.
    - agseward 6y ago
      You should actually hold off for longer > In 2018, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) released new recommendations for car seat safety. As part of these recommendations, they removed their previous age-based recommendation that children remain rear facing in car seats until the age of 2. > The AAP now suggests that children remain rear facing until they reach their rear-facing car seat’s weight/height limits which, for most children, will leave them rear-facing beyond the previous age recommendation. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/forward-facing-car-seat#timing https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/forward-f...
colejohnson66 6y ago
I think it’s illegal in some states, but I could be wrong.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I do not see any where that's the case. https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/ https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/
- mcguire 6y ago
  I find it unlikely that, if you don't have a rear seat, you cannot legally carry a child.
  - lathiat 6y ago
    It's true in Australia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24761210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24761210

nrmitchi 6y ago

First, some models do. I don't know about that particular one, because (shockingly) I don't own a Ferrari. But second, that doesn't matter. Most places do not have laws that prohibit children in the front seat of cars, only that they use appropriate child seats. Further, child seats are typically required for _children_, not just infants. IIRC, for example, in Texas, child seats are required for any child under the age of 8, unless they are taller than 4'9". It is totally reasonable for a 7 year old to want to go for a ride in their parents "fancy" car. It's actually very responsible of this person to get a child seat properly installed in order to support that.

kofejnik 6y ago
except that child seats are mostly safety theater, of course
- jankiehodgpodge 6y ago
  Is there any evidence for that? I know that for example women are more likely to be injured in car crashes because most car seats/interiors are designed around the average man so if be surprised if a human half didn't need to be raised or put in a safer position.
  - kofejnik 6y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones-who-think-child-car-seats-dont-work-well/ https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones...
    - JshWright 6y ago
      So your "evidence" is a single anecdotal account from over a decade ago? Actual accident data doesn't back you up...
  - hurxnid 6y ago

CydeWeys 6y ago

Ferraris having back seats goes back to the early days of the marque: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6602/ferrari-four-seat-history-list/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6602/ferrari-four-... Not all, of course, but many do.

cromulent 6y ago

yes, the Portofino M does have back seats, although they are limited somewhat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Portofino#/media/File:Porto180323-6991besg.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Portofino#/media/File:...

Hamuko 6y ago

Not only does it have back seats, it has ISOFIX points.