10 ms·

Someone who has both a child, and a Ferrari.

by nrmitchi 6y ago

compsciphd 6y ago
does it have a back seat?
- lisper 6y ago
  Some do. https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso But what difference does that make? Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?
  - Igelau 6y ago
    Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. They're actually really dangerous for them - potentially lethal.
    - nrmitchi 6y ago
      And most vehicles have methods to disable airbags when the item/person occupying the seat can not safely handle it. But if you want to get real sad, IIRC many airbag systems are not designed with an occupant outside the parameters of a typical adult male in mind. Some modern systems are getting better about this, but if you're too short, too tall, a woman, or other-wise-outside-of-the-norm, good luck.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        What goes wrong with a woman that is the expected size?
        PeterisP 6y ago
        Very few women are of the expected size (5' 9" tall) aimed to represent the average male; most women automatically falls into the "too short / other-wise-outside-of-the-norm" as far as car safety testing was concerned until recently - AFAIK cars made since 2012 should be also tested on smaller, female-sized dummies which also created an incentive to alter how they are built.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        Well if that's it then making a list of "too short, too tall, a woman" is double-counting. Also if you take it as exactly 5'9" then airbags aren't suitable for men either. What you need to do is examine the range it's designed for. It's not the average height that matters, it's what percent of men/women fall inside that range. There might be a significant difference in that percent, or there might not be.
        kaitai 6y ago
        That analysis has been done, and there is a significant difference in that amount. You can back-of-the-envelope it yourself if you know that the average height of a woman in the US is 5'4" with a standard deviation of about 3.5".
        andrewaylett 6y ago
        There is no such thing as an "average" person: https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...
      - lathiat 6y ago
        It's worth noting that here in Australia cars have no such method, and you are not allowed to put a car seat in the front seat. Equally when travelling as best I can tell all European cars have a method to do this and you can install in the front seat. So this probably varies by country, but I am not sure which countries have what or where the USA is. Without specifically checking I imagine that the Australian Design Rules basically wouldn't allow them to add the option even if they wanted to - if I had to guess because you're not allowed to have such a disable button (which you could argue could also be dangerous in some cases if pressed or used when it shouldn't be).
    - theginger 6y ago
      I suspect they were in the process of disabling the airbag when this all kicked off.
    - u801e 6y ago
      > Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. According to FMVSS 208, they're tested using an unbelted 50th percentile size male dummy. That's the reason they deploy with more force and are triggered at lower impact speed had they been designed with belted occupants of varying sizes in mind.
      - t0mas88 6y ago
        They are tested without belts to ensure the airbag doesn't kill idiots not wearing their belts. But on all modern cars they're designed to work together with the seatbelts. If you unplug the cable at the bottom of a BMW seat (so it doesn't know the seat occupancy and belts) it will disable the airbag and show an airbag light.
  - cornstalks 6y ago
    LMGTFY: https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/child-passenger-safety/index.html#:~:text=Buckle%20all%20children%20aged%2012%20and%20under%20in%20the%20back%20seat.&text=Airbags%20can%20kill%20young%20children,matter%20how%20short%20the%20trip https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/child-passenger-safety/i.... > Buckle all children aged 12 and under in the back seat. > - Airbags can kill young children riding in the front seat. Never place a rear-facing car seat in front of an airbag.
    - nrmitchi 6y ago
      Not all child seats are rear-facing child seats.
      - cornstalks 6y ago
        I didn't say they were all rear-facing. lisper asked "Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?" I don't know anything about safety of front-facing or booster seats for kids in front seats. But I think my response was a reasonable answer/example of when you wouldn't want to put a car seat in the front passenger seat.
      - saiya-jin 6y ago
        No but for tiny little newborns, all are. Something about not having proper muscle structure around spine to handle thrust forward during frontal (most common) crash. Also reason why you should never shake babies or expose them to any form of higher G. We're changing the child seat to front facing right now - our baby is 10 months old. It can be done little bit earlier but not too much.
        agseward 6y ago
        You should actually hold off for longer > In 2018, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) released new recommendations for car seat safety. As part of these recommendations, they removed their previous age-based recommendation that children remain rear facing in car seats until the age of 2. > The AAP now suggests that children remain rear facing until they reach their rear-facing car seat’s weight/height limits which, for most children, will leave them rear-facing beyond the previous age recommendation. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/forward-facing-car-seat#timing https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/forward-f...
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    I think it’s illegal in some states, but I could be wrong.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      I do not see any where that's the case. https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/ https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/
    - mcguire 6y ago
      I find it unlikely that, if you don't have a rear seat, you cannot legally carry a child.
      - lathiat 6y ago
        It's true in Australia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24761210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24761210
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  First, some models do. I don't know about that particular one, because (shockingly) I don't own a Ferrari. But second, that doesn't matter. Most places do not have laws that prohibit children in the front seat of cars, only that they use appropriate child seats. Further, child seats are typically required for _children_, not just infants. IIRC, for example, in Texas, child seats are required for any child under the age of 8, unless they are taller than 4'9". It is totally reasonable for a 7 year old to want to go for a ride in their parents "fancy" car. It's actually very responsible of this person to get a child seat properly installed in order to support that.
  - kofejnik 6y ago
    except that child seats are mostly safety theater, of course
    - jankiehodgpodge 6y ago
      Is there any evidence for that? I know that for example women are more likely to be injured in car crashes because most car seats/interiors are designed around the average man so if be surprised if a human half didn't need to be raised or put in a safer position.
      - kofejnik 6y ago
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones-who-think-child-car-seats-dont-work-well/ https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones...
        JshWright 6y ago
        So your "evidence" is a single anecdotal account from over a decade ago? Actual accident data doesn't back you up...
      - hurxnid 6y ago
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  Ferraris having back seats goes back to the early days of the marque: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6602/ferrari-four-seat-history-list/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6602/ferrari-four-... Not all, of course, but many do.
- cromulent 6y ago
  yes, the Portofino M does have back seats, although they are limited somewhat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Portofino#/media/File:Porto180323-6991besg.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Portofino#/media/File:...
- Hamuko 6y ago
  Not only does it have back seats, it has ISOFIX points.
oconnor663 6y ago
"This baby can go zero to sixty in three seconds flat."
- jdironman 6y ago
  Slaps hood
  - waffle_ss 6y ago
    Another throwaway meme reference. dang where you at?
    - daggdang 6y ago
      too busy suppressing real conversation, and being a general douche canoe
    - daggdang 6y ago
      obviously too busy suppressing real conversation, and being a general douchecanoe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - peterwwillis 6y ago
    Slaps baby
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
  For anyone wondering, assuming linear acceleration that's roughly 1 g. In a rear-facing seat, that's 1 g eyeballs-out, which should still be perfectly safe for the child, but possibly not for the cleanliness of the seat.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Also, basically any boring passenger car can brake at or slightly above 1 g.
  - encypruon 6y ago
SilasX 6y ago
I hate to sound inflammatory, but just to get everyone on the same page, and because I was wondering the same thing: I thought Ferraris were show-off cars for the rich, and if you were rich enough to have one, and had a child, then you would (sensibly) own a separate, functional car when you actually intended to drive that child around (or employ some car/chauffeur service or whatever). Edit: I googled Ferraris with back seats, and got this article which opens by acknowledging that people don't expect them to exist or for Ferraris to be kid friendly, so I think I (and the heavily downvoted GP) can be forgiven for harboring this misconception. >>Adam Merlin, President at Merlin Auto Group, confidently answers, “Every time I speak about Ferraris being kid friendly, people think I’m nuts. And for the most part, I am. After all, even Ferraris that do have back seats often require the rear passenger to sacrifice leg room, so you can imagine peoples’ reactions when I allude to fitting car seats back there. However, after trying a plethora of Ferrari models, I can confidently say there are models you can choose from, if you have a family and still want to spoil yourself by driving a Ferrari.” https://www.merlinautogroup.com/kid-friendly-ferraris.htm https://www.merlinautogroup.com/kid-friendly-ferraris.htm
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  I agree with you, and honestly I should have been more clear here. I also think there are different definitions of "kid friendly". Using a Ferrari to take your 3-month-old toddler to a doctors appointment? That seems like a waste. Taking your 7 year old kid on a drive in the "fun car"? If I had a Ferrari, and a kid, this would 100% be happening.
  - SilasX 6y ago
    But you just need booster seats for 7 y/os, which simply lie on top of the OEM seat without risking this kind of incident, right?
    - nrmitchi 6y ago
      I have 0 experience installing a booster seat in a Ferrari, but frankly I would expect any form of child seat to be installable without risking this kind of incident. I don't have the knowledge to get into any specifics about this. The point is just that there are plenty of valid use cases for having a child seat in a Ferrari.

Someone who has both a child, and a Ferrari.

compsciphd 6y ago

does it have a back seat?

lisper 6y ago
Some do. https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso But what difference does that make? Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?
- Igelau 6y ago
  Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. They're actually really dangerous for them - potentially lethal.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    And most vehicles have methods to disable airbags when the item/person occupying the seat can not safely handle it. But if you want to get real sad, IIRC many airbag systems are not designed with an occupant outside the parameters of a typical adult male in mind. Some modern systems are getting better about this, but if you're too short, too tall, a woman, or other-wise-outside-of-the-norm, good luck.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      What goes wrong with a woman that is the expected size?
      - PeterisP 6y ago
        Very few women are of the expected size (5' 9" tall) aimed to represent the average male; most women automatically falls into the "too short / other-wise-outside-of-the-norm" as far as car safety testing was concerned until recently - AFAIK cars made since 2012 should be also tested on smaller, female-sized dummies which also created an incentive to alter how they are built.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        Well if that's it then making a list of "too short, too tall, a woman" is double-counting. Also if you take it as exactly 5'9" then airbags aren't suitable for men either. What you need to do is examine the range it's designed for. It's not the average height that matters, it's what percent of men/women fall inside that range. There might be a significant difference in that percent, or there might not be.
        kaitai 6y ago
        That analysis has been done, and there is a significant difference in that amount. You can back-of-the-envelope it yourself if you know that the average height of a woman in the US is 5'4" with a standard deviation of about 3.5".
        andrewaylett 6y ago
        There is no such thing as an "average" person: https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...
    - lathiat 6y ago
      It's worth noting that here in Australia cars have no such method, and you are not allowed to put a car seat in the front seat. Equally when travelling as best I can tell all European cars have a method to do this and you can install in the front seat. So this probably varies by country, but I am not sure which countries have what or where the USA is. Without specifically checking I imagine that the Australian Design Rules basically wouldn't allow them to add the option even if they wanted to - if I had to guess because you're not allowed to have such a disable button (which you could argue could also be dangerous in some cases if pressed or used when it shouldn't be).
  - theginger 6y ago
    I suspect they were in the process of disabling the airbag when this all kicked off.
  - u801e 6y ago
    > Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. According to FMVSS 208, they're tested using an unbelted 50th percentile size male dummy. That's the reason they deploy with more force and are triggered at lower impact speed had they been designed with belted occupants of varying sizes in mind.
    - t0mas88 6y ago
      They are tested without belts to ensure the airbag doesn't kill idiots not wearing their belts. But on all modern cars they're designed to work together with the seatbelts. If you unplug the cable at the bottom of a BMW seat (so it doesn't know the seat occupancy and belts) it will disable the airbag and show an airbag light.
- cornstalks 6y ago
  LMGTFY: https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/child-passenger-safety/index.html#:~:text=Buckle%20all%20children%20aged%2012%20and%20under%20in%20the%20back%20seat.&text=Airbags%20can%20kill%20young%20children,matter%20how%20short%20the%20trip https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/child-passenger-safety/i.... > Buckle all children aged 12 and under in the back seat. > - Airbags can kill young children riding in the front seat. Never place a rear-facing car seat in front of an airbag.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    Not all child seats are rear-facing child seats.
    - cornstalks 6y ago
      I didn't say they were all rear-facing. lisper asked "Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?" I don't know anything about safety of front-facing or booster seats for kids in front seats. But I think my response was a reasonable answer/example of when you wouldn't want to put a car seat in the front passenger seat.
    - saiya-jin 6y ago
      No but for tiny little newborns, all are. Something about not having proper muscle structure around spine to handle thrust forward during frontal (most common) crash. Also reason why you should never shake babies or expose them to any form of higher G. We're changing the child seat to front facing right now - our baby is 10 months old. It can be done little bit earlier but not too much.
      - agseward 6y ago
        You should actually hold off for longer > In 2018, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) released new recommendations for car seat safety. As part of these recommendations, they removed their previous age-based recommendation that children remain rear facing in car seats until the age of 2. > The AAP now suggests that children remain rear facing until they reach their rear-facing car seat’s weight/height limits which, for most children, will leave them rear-facing beyond the previous age recommendation. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/forward-facing-car-seat#timing https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/forward-f...
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  I think it’s illegal in some states, but I could be wrong.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    I do not see any where that's the case. https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/ https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/
  - mcguire 6y ago
    I find it unlikely that, if you don't have a rear seat, you cannot legally carry a child.
    - lathiat 6y ago
      It's true in Australia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24761210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24761210
nrmitchi 6y ago
First, some models do. I don't know about that particular one, because (shockingly) I don't own a Ferrari. But second, that doesn't matter. Most places do not have laws that prohibit children in the front seat of cars, only that they use appropriate child seats. Further, child seats are typically required for _children_, not just infants. IIRC, for example, in Texas, child seats are required for any child under the age of 8, unless they are taller than 4'9". It is totally reasonable for a 7 year old to want to go for a ride in their parents "fancy" car. It's actually very responsible of this person to get a child seat properly installed in order to support that.
- kofejnik 6y ago
  except that child seats are mostly safety theater, of course
  - jankiehodgpodge 6y ago
    Is there any evidence for that? I know that for example women are more likely to be injured in car crashes because most car seats/interiors are designed around the average man so if be surprised if a human half didn't need to be raised or put in a safer position.
    - kofejnik 6y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0 https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones-who-think-child-car-seats-dont-work-well/ https://freakonomics.com/2007/01/05/we-are-not-the-only-ones...
      - JshWright 6y ago
        So your "evidence" is a single anecdotal account from over a decade ago? Actual accident data doesn't back you up...
    - hurxnid 6y ago
CydeWeys 6y ago
Ferraris having back seats goes back to the early days of the marque: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6602/ferrari-four-seat-history-list/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6602/ferrari-four-... Not all, of course, but many do.
cromulent 6y ago
yes, the Portofino M does have back seats, although they are limited somewhat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Portofino#/media/File:Porto180323-6991besg.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Portofino#/media/File:...
Hamuko 6y ago
Not only does it have back seats, it has ISOFIX points.

oconnor663 6y ago

"This baby can go zero to sixty in three seconds flat."

jdironman 6y ago
Slaps hood
- waffle_ss 6y ago
  Another throwaway meme reference. dang where you at?
  - daggdang 6y ago
    too busy suppressing real conversation, and being a general douche canoe
  - daggdang 6y ago
    obviously too busy suppressing real conversation, and being a general douchecanoe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- peterwwillis 6y ago
  Slaps baby
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
For anyone wondering, assuming linear acceleration that's roughly 1 g. In a rear-facing seat, that's 1 g eyeballs-out, which should still be perfectly safe for the child, but possibly not for the cleanliness of the seat.
- kube-system 6y ago
  Also, basically any boring passenger car can brake at or slightly above 1 g.
- encypruon 6y ago

SilasX 6y ago

I hate to sound inflammatory, but just to get everyone on the same page, and because I was wondering the same thing: I thought Ferraris were show-off cars for the rich, and if you were rich enough to have one, and had a child, then you would (sensibly) own a separate, functional car when you actually intended to drive that child around (or employ some car/chauffeur service or whatever). Edit: I googled Ferraris with back seats, and got this article which opens by acknowledging that people don't expect them to exist or for Ferraris to be kid friendly, so I think I (and the heavily downvoted GP) can be forgiven for harboring this misconception. >>Adam Merlin, President at Merlin Auto Group, confidently answers, “Every time I speak about Ferraris being kid friendly, people think I’m nuts. And for the most part, I am. After all, even Ferraris that do have back seats often require the rear passenger to sacrifice leg room, so you can imagine peoples’ reactions when I allude to fitting car seats back there. However, after trying a plethora of Ferrari models, I can confidently say there are models you can choose from, if you have a family and still want to spoil yourself by driving a Ferrari.” https://www.merlinautogroup.com/kid-friendly-ferraris.htm https://www.merlinautogroup.com/kid-friendly-ferraris.htm

nrmitchi 6y ago
I agree with you, and honestly I should have been more clear here. I also think there are different definitions of "kid friendly". Using a Ferrari to take your 3-month-old toddler to a doctors appointment? That seems like a waste. Taking your 7 year old kid on a drive in the "fun car"? If I had a Ferrari, and a kid, this would 100% be happening.
- SilasX 6y ago
  But you just need booster seats for 7 y/os, which simply lie on top of the OEM seat without risking this kind of incident, right?
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    I have 0 experience installing a booster seat in a Ferrari, but frankly I would expect any form of child seat to be installable without risking this kind of incident. I don't have the knowledge to get into any specifics about this. The point is just that there are plenty of valid use cases for having a child seat in a Ferrari.