6 ms·

This looks great, but my first thought was, "what happens when all these new cyclists experience their first winter on a bike?" Not saying that it _should_ cau

This looks great, but my first thought was, "what happens when all these new cyclists experience their first winter on a bike?" Not saying that it _should_ cause them to reconsider, just that it might, and we won't really know until we see what happens in December-January.

analog31 6y ago
In my view, it will be what always happens. I'm a year round commuting cyclist in the upper Midwest, so I see bike traffic go up and down with the seasons and the weather. In addition to the cold, there's also the darkness. The coldest month is January, and by that point, you only see the die-hards. It's not just psychological, but also requires being prepared to deal with the cold, ice, and road salt. For instance I have a dedicated winter bike with studded tires, and a pre-rusted chain. ;-) Oddly enough, the people who are out in the worst weather always seem to have the biggest grins on their faces. So while I feel smug about being one of the die-hards, I also don't even try to encourage people to ride through the winter until they've at least acclimatized themselves to riding regularly in normal weather.
- tvb12 6y ago
  I doubt I'll ever ride a bike to work in the winter. I say this because there's a backwoods road on my commute which I cannot avoid and which gets skinnier and skinnier as the storms add up. It reaches a point where two lanes become something closer to one and a half, and where I suspect a difference in vehicle height is occasionally the only thing preventing side-view mirrors from clipping. Drivers remain unfazed, or at the very least they do not slow down.
- TheGallopedHigh 6y ago
  Why do you ride in ice and snow? Sincere question.
  - analog31 6y ago
    Admittedly, it can't be justified on purely utilitarian grounds. I do own a car after all. Part of it is that I'm just addicted to cycling. But I'm also not strong enough to be a competitive cyclist, and don't live in an area with extensive mountain biking. So I have to look for ways to make it more interesting. I also love being outdoors during the winter, so I also go cross country skiing, or just take long walks. Surely, folks who have engaged in real survival sports would laugh at me, but still, arriving at work on my bike at -20 F feels like I've been on some kind of an adventure. My friends think I'm crazy, but I remind them that regular people go to work, outdoors, in colder temperatures, and they survive. The old saying is: "There's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing." On the other hand, my spouse has a job where you have to pay extra for parking, so she either rides her bike or takes the bus depending on schedule. Right now during the COVID, the bus service has been cut way back, so it's 100% bike for her. My kids are both college students, and don't have cars, so a bike is their only option.
    - nl 6y ago
      I live in a much milder climate than OP, and haven't done it for a while but I can confirm that cycling in cold - when properly prepared for it - is a very meditative experience. Make sure your hands and feet are warm! I can't imagine -20F though! (I have done +46C in the shade and that was quite an experience)
      - vertis 6y ago
        That temperature is a give away. I remember Sydney had some fairly decent cycling routes when I was there. Perhaps not when compared to Copenhagen and Amsterdam, but they always got me from Alexandria to the CBD without riding on the road (this was in 2010).
  - ntlk 6y ago
    I ride in the pouring rain (it rarely snows where I love) because I don’t own a car and it takes half the time to get to work by bike than by public transport. It’s also much more pleasant despite the rain because public transport is crowded. You stand for an hour squeezed between other people in their wet coats. For me that’s sensory overload which makes my morning far too stressful. Biking, even in bad weather, is much less stressful than that.
  - Delk 6y ago
    > Why do you ride in ice and snow? Sincere question. I'm a bit late to the party, and not the person you asked, but I have bicycled through a few winters in the past. The winter road conditions where I live can be anything from dry and clear to wet to slushy to snowy to icy, and various things in between. I have to admit that part of the reason was "because I can". As a kid, I was given (or at least somehow got) the impression that bicycling in winter was dangerous, and that it was a summertime activity. Once I realized sometime in my early 20's that that's not how it has to be, I liked to show myself that it could be done. (I fully realize that it can, in fact, be dangerous especially if the infrastructure for cycling isn't supportive or if you don't realize that you have to approach things differently than in dry weather, but I found I was able to do it safely where I live. You just need to keep your wits with you. There's still something nice about knowing that (or if and when) it can be done; it gives a feeling of freedom, and you also become quite mindful of your physical environment while riding.) A second reason would be that, living in a city with good public transport and decent walking/cycling infrastructure, I've never owned a car. I like it that way, largely due to the ecological costs of private driving. And while public transport is a fine option, there was something nice about riding in crisp air to start the day rather than being stuck in a packed bus or a train. Not being dependent on public transport schedules is a plus, as is the exercise. Riding in some winter conditions (even snowy or icy) is a lot easier than in others. Plowed or packed snow is fine, as are slightly icy surfaces, as long as the ice is even; studded tires help a lot. Fresh snow that hasn't been plowed, even if it's just an inch or two thick, is a lot harder to ride in unless you have pretty wide tires with good tread, but it becomes possible if you do. Packed and frozen slush are the worst because they're both slippery and uneven. I'd generally not ride (at least with the bike and equipment I had back then) for significant distances if the conditions were like that. In some sense you could say that grasping the nuances of the conditions could be a hobby in itself. One of the obvious downsides is that appropriate clothing is more difficult when you have to account for the physical exertion and the cold weather. Riding is almost inevitably slower than in dry conditions, both because of safety and because any snow makes the riding physically more strenuous. It might easily also became significantly slower than other modes of transportation, and the travel time on longer commutes might become less predictable due to variable conditions, so you might not want to commute by bike for longer distances in snowy/icy conditions unless you're pretty dedicated for some other reason. I'm also not sure I'd do it in a location where the infrastructure is bad enough to make it seriously risky.
akadruid1 6y ago
And what happens to those pop up bike lanes when the furlough money runs out, the tube is still unusable and the cars return with a vengeance? The Beeb are too quick to praise the weak actions of local governments here. Given a generation of people who care about the environment, the availability of practical e-bikes, and the very clear model shown by the Netherlands, this really was the chance of a lifetime and they blew it. This was the summer when central governments should have introduced bike friendly legislation and locked in the long term budgets needed to gradually rebuild the permanent infrastructure in every town and city.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  It will take us 30 years to catch up with the Netherlands, just as it took them that long to get where they are now.
mytailorisrich 6y ago
I previously lived in city where it was -10/-15C during winter and it was fine to cycle because it was dry and bright (inc. strong lighting). Now I live in the UK and you have to be a true believer to cycle during winter when it's not as cold but it's damp, raining, and dark (with poor public lighting). I walk, which is already a commitment. One further problem in the UK, in my opinion, is that roads have always been built, and, worse, continue to be built, the absolute narrowest possible. Very often it is already tight for cars, so cycle lanes are out of the question and cycling is very dangerous. Ideally, all new roads (at least urban and in residential areas) should be wide enough in order to include a good size bike lane segregated from cars... Once again, though, there is no long term plan, at best they're just winging it with a quite paint job on the road.
- CalRobert 6y ago
  This was not always the case! The UK had excellent bike lanes in the 1930's. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/may/09/how-80-forgotten-1930s-cycleways-could-transform-uk-cycling https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/may/0...
Barrin92 6y ago
Depends on where you are but in most of Europe winters are pretty okay. I've never owned a car and used a bike for all my life and the few days where it's actually icy or snowy (Germany in my case) you just switch to public transport. And if anything it seems like the winters keep getting milder.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
  One of the reasons people use bikes during the pandemic is to avoid public transport. When the bike option doesn't become available, it will push a lot of people to cars. And once you have a car, it's often a lot more convenient than a bike, because you don't end up all sweaty at the end of the day.
  - cdirkx 6y ago
    I always see "being sweaty" being mentioned here when talking about commuting via bike, why? Is it the hills? I live in a flat area and this has never been a problem for me.
    - em500 6y ago
      The American or British mental image of a cyclist commuter[1] is very different than the Dutch or Danish one[2]. In the Netherlands cycling is just a faster and less strenuous version of walking. In America many cyclists dress like they're training for a sport event. [1] https://www.bicycling.com/rides/a20039883/9-ways-to-make-bike-commuting-easier/ https://www.bicycling.com/rides/a20039883/9-ways-to-make-bik... [2] https://www.bicycling.com/news/a23508352/netherlands-cellphone-ban-on-bikes/ https://www.bicycling.com/news/a23508352/netherlands-cellpho...
      - masklinn 6y ago
        > In America many cyclists dress like they're training for a sport event. I’m sure roadies dress that way in the Netherlands. The difference is that US cyclists are mostly roadies because you need to really want to bike to do so, which in the Netherlands roadies are a minority of cyclists because it’s just the normal way to move around.
watwut 6y ago
Most likely, they put bike to rest till summer/spring, same as majority of old cyclists do.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
a_f 6y ago
I have started to see the start of it where I am. The barely used bikes from the summer are starting to appear on second-hand sites (think craigslist) as people try to offload them. The problem being that traffic is back to normal and people return to taking the car everywhere. I also notice a cooldown in people buying used bikes too

analog31 6y ago

In my view, it will be what always happens. I'm a year round commuting cyclist in the upper Midwest, so I see bike traffic go up and down with the seasons and the weather. In addition to the cold, there's also the darkness. The coldest month is January, and by that point, you only see the die-hards. It's not just psychological, but also requires being prepared to deal with the cold, ice, and road salt. For instance I have a dedicated winter bike with studded tires, and a pre-rusted chain. ;-) Oddly enough, the people who are out in the worst weather always seem to have the biggest grins on their faces. So while I feel smug about being one of the die-hards, I also don't even try to encourage people to ride through the winter until they've at least acclimatized themselves to riding regularly in normal weather.

tvb12 6y ago
I doubt I'll ever ride a bike to work in the winter. I say this because there's a backwoods road on my commute which I cannot avoid and which gets skinnier and skinnier as the storms add up. It reaches a point where two lanes become something closer to one and a half, and where I suspect a difference in vehicle height is occasionally the only thing preventing side-view mirrors from clipping. Drivers remain unfazed, or at the very least they do not slow down.
TheGallopedHigh 6y ago
Why do you ride in ice and snow? Sincere question.
- analog31 6y ago
  Admittedly, it can't be justified on purely utilitarian grounds. I do own a car after all. Part of it is that I'm just addicted to cycling. But I'm also not strong enough to be a competitive cyclist, and don't live in an area with extensive mountain biking. So I have to look for ways to make it more interesting. I also love being outdoors during the winter, so I also go cross country skiing, or just take long walks. Surely, folks who have engaged in real survival sports would laugh at me, but still, arriving at work on my bike at -20 F feels like I've been on some kind of an adventure. My friends think I'm crazy, but I remind them that regular people go to work, outdoors, in colder temperatures, and they survive. The old saying is: "There's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing." On the other hand, my spouse has a job where you have to pay extra for parking, so she either rides her bike or takes the bus depending on schedule. Right now during the COVID, the bus service has been cut way back, so it's 100% bike for her. My kids are both college students, and don't have cars, so a bike is their only option.
  - nl 6y ago
    I live in a much milder climate than OP, and haven't done it for a while but I can confirm that cycling in cold - when properly prepared for it - is a very meditative experience. Make sure your hands and feet are warm! I can't imagine -20F though! (I have done +46C in the shade and that was quite an experience)
    - vertis 6y ago
      That temperature is a give away. I remember Sydney had some fairly decent cycling routes when I was there. Perhaps not when compared to Copenhagen and Amsterdam, but they always got me from Alexandria to the CBD without riding on the road (this was in 2010).
- ntlk 6y ago
  I ride in the pouring rain (it rarely snows where I love) because I don’t own a car and it takes half the time to get to work by bike than by public transport. It’s also much more pleasant despite the rain because public transport is crowded. You stand for an hour squeezed between other people in their wet coats. For me that’s sensory overload which makes my morning far too stressful. Biking, even in bad weather, is much less stressful than that.
- Delk 6y ago
  > Why do you ride in ice and snow? Sincere question. I'm a bit late to the party, and not the person you asked, but I have bicycled through a few winters in the past. The winter road conditions where I live can be anything from dry and clear to wet to slushy to snowy to icy, and various things in between. I have to admit that part of the reason was "because I can". As a kid, I was given (or at least somehow got) the impression that bicycling in winter was dangerous, and that it was a summertime activity. Once I realized sometime in my early 20's that that's not how it has to be, I liked to show myself that it could be done. (I fully realize that it can, in fact, be dangerous especially if the infrastructure for cycling isn't supportive or if you don't realize that you have to approach things differently than in dry weather, but I found I was able to do it safely where I live. You just need to keep your wits with you. There's still something nice about knowing that (or if and when) it can be done; it gives a feeling of freedom, and you also become quite mindful of your physical environment while riding.) A second reason would be that, living in a city with good public transport and decent walking/cycling infrastructure, I've never owned a car. I like it that way, largely due to the ecological costs of private driving. And while public transport is a fine option, there was something nice about riding in crisp air to start the day rather than being stuck in a packed bus or a train. Not being dependent on public transport schedules is a plus, as is the exercise. Riding in some winter conditions (even snowy or icy) is a lot easier than in others. Plowed or packed snow is fine, as are slightly icy surfaces, as long as the ice is even; studded tires help a lot. Fresh snow that hasn't been plowed, even if it's just an inch or two thick, is a lot harder to ride in unless you have pretty wide tires with good tread, but it becomes possible if you do. Packed and frozen slush are the worst because they're both slippery and uneven. I'd generally not ride (at least with the bike and equipment I had back then) for significant distances if the conditions were like that. In some sense you could say that grasping the nuances of the conditions could be a hobby in itself. One of the obvious downsides is that appropriate clothing is more difficult when you have to account for the physical exertion and the cold weather. Riding is almost inevitably slower than in dry conditions, both because of safety and because any snow makes the riding physically more strenuous. It might easily also became significantly slower than other modes of transportation, and the travel time on longer commutes might become less predictable due to variable conditions, so you might not want to commute by bike for longer distances in snowy/icy conditions unless you're pretty dedicated for some other reason. I'm also not sure I'd do it in a location where the infrastructure is bad enough to make it seriously risky.

akadruid1 6y ago

And what happens to those pop up bike lanes when the furlough money runs out, the tube is still unusable and the cars return with a vengeance? The Beeb are too quick to praise the weak actions of local governments here. Given a generation of people who care about the environment, the availability of practical e-bikes, and the very clear model shown by the Netherlands, this really was the chance of a lifetime and they blew it. This was the summer when central governments should have introduced bike friendly legislation and locked in the long term budgets needed to gradually rebuild the permanent infrastructure in every town and city.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
It will take us 30 years to catch up with the Netherlands, just as it took them that long to get where they are now.

mytailorisrich 6y ago

I previously lived in city where it was -10/-15C during winter and it was fine to cycle because it was dry and bright (inc. strong lighting). Now I live in the UK and you have to be a true believer to cycle during winter when it's not as cold but it's damp, raining, and dark (with poor public lighting). I walk, which is already a commitment. One further problem in the UK, in my opinion, is that roads have always been built, and, worse, continue to be built, the absolute narrowest possible. Very often it is already tight for cars, so cycle lanes are out of the question and cycling is very dangerous. Ideally, all new roads (at least urban and in residential areas) should be wide enough in order to include a good size bike lane segregated from cars... Once again, though, there is no long term plan, at best they're just winging it with a quite paint job on the road.

CalRobert 6y ago
This was not always the case! The UK had excellent bike lanes in the 1930's. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/may/09/how-80-forgotten-1930s-cycleways-could-transform-uk-cycling https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/may/0...

Barrin92 6y ago

Depends on where you are but in most of Europe winters are pretty okay. I've never owned a car and used a bike for all my life and the few days where it's actually icy or snowy (Germany in my case) you just switch to public transport. And if anything it seems like the winters keep getting milder.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
One of the reasons people use bikes during the pandemic is to avoid public transport. When the bike option doesn't become available, it will push a lot of people to cars. And once you have a car, it's often a lot more convenient than a bike, because you don't end up all sweaty at the end of the day.
- cdirkx 6y ago
  I always see "being sweaty" being mentioned here when talking about commuting via bike, why? Is it the hills? I live in a flat area and this has never been a problem for me.
  - em500 6y ago
    The American or British mental image of a cyclist commuter[1] is very different than the Dutch or Danish one[2]. In the Netherlands cycling is just a faster and less strenuous version of walking. In America many cyclists dress like they're training for a sport event. [1] https://www.bicycling.com/rides/a20039883/9-ways-to-make-bike-commuting-easier/ https://www.bicycling.com/rides/a20039883/9-ways-to-make-bik... [2] https://www.bicycling.com/news/a23508352/netherlands-cellphone-ban-on-bikes/ https://www.bicycling.com/news/a23508352/netherlands-cellpho...
    - masklinn 6y ago
      > In America many cyclists dress like they're training for a sport event. I’m sure roadies dress that way in the Netherlands. The difference is that US cyclists are mostly roadies because you need to really want to bike to do so, which in the Netherlands roadies are a minority of cyclists because it’s just the normal way to move around.

watwut 6y ago

Most likely, they put bike to rest till summer/spring, same as majority of old cyclists do.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

a_f 6y ago

I have started to see the start of it where I am. The barely used bikes from the summer are starting to appear on second-hand sites (think craigslist) as people try to offload them. The problem being that traffic is back to normal and people return to taking the car everywhere. I also notice a cooldown in people buying used bikes too