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> When we think about adding geographic mapping in HTML Why aren't browsers adding new featureful html tags that would actually be useful for everyone, lowerin

by dsego 6y ago

> When we think about adding geographic mapping in HTML Why aren't browsers adding new featureful html tags that would actually be useful for everyone, lowering the cost of web development and duplicated efforts, reducing the barrier to entry and resulting in more efficient web sites?

edent 6y ago
Which sort of tags did you have in mind? You can propose new ones - and comment on existing proposals - on https://wicg.io/ https://wicg.io/
- dsego 6y ago
  Pretty much anything that used to require a jquery plugin, drag&drop file area, carousel, breadcrumbs, dropdown menus, range sliders, image slides, etc
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    Theres so many times I go to look up components for Bootstrap assuming its a web feature they support only to find out I am looking for something that isnt even a web feature at all. Its been a little while since I have done more than basic web stuff but you mentioned some good examples. Its just insane to me that HTML5 has not evolved the basic UI components more. Old browsers be damned, we can shim the stuff that we already hack into working I am sure. Hell I am okay with some bits requiring specific JS callbacks for "real handling" as long as web UI OOTB improves a bit.
    - pxtail 6y ago
      Agree, it's so damn inefficient, for last 10-15 years web developers are building and "reinventing" same basic controls and functionalities over and over, this is such a waste of everything - developers time, businesses money, users cognitive load and frustration coming from differences between various implementations, transfer costs etc.
      - giancarlostoro 6y ago
        And what surprises me more than anything is, we've had jQuery, we've had React, etc but none of them seem to just give you reusable web UI components that are common enough. Maybe there's some magical UI library I'm missing out on somewhere. Components are better if you're not forced to include an entire kitchen sink with them.
        PuercoPop 6y ago
        Yes, there there is. You are looking for t is called Cappuccino. One of its developers literally wrote a rant about with the exact same complaint. It requires a significant buy-in though, it is written in another language, objective-j. - [0] https://www.cappuccino.dev/ https://www.cappuccino.dev/ - [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20140326112535/https://randyluecke.tumblr.com/post/45915323813/im-done-with-the-web http://web.archive.org/web/20140326112535/https://randylueck... - [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5415585 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5415585
        pwdisswordfish0 6y ago
        I want to like Cappuccino. Like, really want to—Atlas was really cool, and I check in on Cappuccino a couple or three times a year and was even poking at it last night to see how smooth their bootstrap.sh script is, and I marvel at what we've lost when I compare how the early 2010s were looking compared to where things are now. Aside from Objective-J, though, Cappuccino has performance problems. Every time I try the demos, there's so much jank, even though our hardware and browser engines are a lot better than they were in Cappuccino's original heyday years ago. It's also at risk of being in questionable legal status depending on the Supreme Court's ruling in Google v. Oracle. One of the cruxes of that post also stands out to me: > Your day job is to build a piece of web software and you can’t take a few days to learn the ins and outs? [...] I’ve seen this reaction many times in the web culture. This mentality is pretty rare in the world of native development though. Almost every decent developer I know has no problem spending a weekend learning some new and cool tool, but sadly, this spirit seems to be absent from the web culture. Looking at the state of tooling in the post-narwhal NodeJS era, the "web culture" has now "caught up" on this side of things, but unfortunately, that's not a good thing. This is another example of the deprogression we've seen. Webdevs had it right the first time on this one. It should not cost a whole several days to get started. The attitude that it should is pretty antithetical to the original value proposition behind Objective-C and Cocoa, in fact.
  - rat9988 6y ago
    Isn't drag&drop file area a simple restyled button in html?
    - giancarlostoro 6y ago
      It is but that sounds like a hack. We should be able to work with HTML elements without hacking things up. The moment somebody even did that they should of proposed some way to allow support to a new HTML tag that can be plainly styled minus the button hiding hackery.
  - extra88 6y ago
    We have range sliders, <input type=“range”> [0]. [0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/input/range https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/in...
    - dsego 6y ago
      Right, yes of course. But it could do so much more, like the nouislider js control.
- felixfbecker 6y ago
  It's not worth anything if browsers don't implement it though. <dialog> has been standardized for years and is only implemented in Chrome.

by dsego 6y ago

edent 6y ago

Which sort of tags did you have in mind? You can propose new ones - and comment on existing proposals - on https://wicg.io/ https://wicg.io/

dsego 6y ago
Pretty much anything that used to require a jquery plugin, drag&drop file area, carousel, breadcrumbs, dropdown menus, range sliders, image slides, etc
- giancarlostoro 6y ago
  Theres so many times I go to look up components for Bootstrap assuming its a web feature they support only to find out I am looking for something that isnt even a web feature at all. Its been a little while since I have done more than basic web stuff but you mentioned some good examples. Its just insane to me that HTML5 has not evolved the basic UI components more. Old browsers be damned, we can shim the stuff that we already hack into working I am sure. Hell I am okay with some bits requiring specific JS callbacks for "real handling" as long as web UI OOTB improves a bit.
  - pxtail 6y ago
    Agree, it's so damn inefficient, for last 10-15 years web developers are building and "reinventing" same basic controls and functionalities over and over, this is such a waste of everything - developers time, businesses money, users cognitive load and frustration coming from differences between various implementations, transfer costs etc.
    - giancarlostoro 6y ago
      And what surprises me more than anything is, we've had jQuery, we've had React, etc but none of them seem to just give you reusable web UI components that are common enough. Maybe there's some magical UI library I'm missing out on somewhere. Components are better if you're not forced to include an entire kitchen sink with them.
      - PuercoPop 6y ago
        Yes, there there is. You are looking for t is called Cappuccino. One of its developers literally wrote a rant about with the exact same complaint. It requires a significant buy-in though, it is written in another language, objective-j. - [0] https://www.cappuccino.dev/ https://www.cappuccino.dev/ - [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20140326112535/https://randyluecke.tumblr.com/post/45915323813/im-done-with-the-web http://web.archive.org/web/20140326112535/https://randylueck... - [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5415585 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5415585
        pwdisswordfish0 6y ago
        I want to like Cappuccino. Like, really want to—Atlas was really cool, and I check in on Cappuccino a couple or three times a year and was even poking at it last night to see how smooth their bootstrap.sh script is, and I marvel at what we've lost when I compare how the early 2010s were looking compared to where things are now. Aside from Objective-J, though, Cappuccino has performance problems. Every time I try the demos, there's so much jank, even though our hardware and browser engines are a lot better than they were in Cappuccino's original heyday years ago. It's also at risk of being in questionable legal status depending on the Supreme Court's ruling in Google v. Oracle. One of the cruxes of that post also stands out to me: > Your day job is to build a piece of web software and you can’t take a few days to learn the ins and outs? [...] I’ve seen this reaction many times in the web culture. This mentality is pretty rare in the world of native development though. Almost every decent developer I know has no problem spending a weekend learning some new and cool tool, but sadly, this spirit seems to be absent from the web culture. Looking at the state of tooling in the post-narwhal NodeJS era, the "web culture" has now "caught up" on this side of things, but unfortunately, that's not a good thing. This is another example of the deprogression we've seen. Webdevs had it right the first time on this one. It should not cost a whole several days to get started. The attitude that it should is pretty antithetical to the original value proposition behind Objective-C and Cocoa, in fact.
- rat9988 6y ago
  Isn't drag&drop file area a simple restyled button in html?
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    It is but that sounds like a hack. We should be able to work with HTML elements without hacking things up. The moment somebody even did that they should of proposed some way to allow support to a new HTML tag that can be plainly styled minus the button hiding hackery.
- extra88 6y ago
  We have range sliders, <input type=“range”> [0]. [0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/input/range https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/in...
  - dsego 6y ago
    Right, yes of course. But it could do so much more, like the nouislider js control.
felixfbecker 6y ago
It's not worth anything if browsers don't implement it though. <dialog> has been standardized for years and is only implemented in Chrome.