6 ms·

Can anyone make a convincing case for having a good webcam in the era of zoom? No one is going to see a crisp image.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
A better investment will be in lighting. Good lighting makes a HUGE difference in the quality of the image.
exclusiv 6y ago
I'm reusing an old Sony 4k handycam with an hdmi to usb c capture card and it looks way better than most. The larger sensor helps a ton.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dheera 6y ago
You could always use something other than Zoom. I often use my own barebones WebRTC thingy for 1:1 meetings and get crisp video.
- jethro_tell 6y ago
  Is this something you've built yourself or is this an open project. I'm looking for something like this if you can give more detail.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - tony8000 6y ago
    Maybe this? https://www.getwatercooler.io/ https://www.getwatercooler.io/
spiffytech 6y ago
The post-covid internet is rife with stories where people discover their classmate/coworker is a Twitch streamer because the person pops onto Zoom with high-quality lighting and camera and their picture quality is so glorious that everyone else's looks like a fuzzy classic film by comparison. Most people's Zoom video is poor quality because it's "garbage in, garbage out". Barely-passable camera, and lighting that's actively hostile to picture quality, because nobody cares as long as your face is more or less visible.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  > where people discover their classmate/coworker is a Twitch streamer Link?
  - Twirrim 6y ago
    Anecdotally, that's how my team found out one of our co-workers does some Twitch streaming. He has a really good mic, camera and a 3-point light setup.
    - soylentcola 6y ago
      It's how my team had it reiterated that I like to mess around with things like this (especially when I'm already working from home). I still just have the basic Microsoft 1280x720 USB webcam that I grabbed from the office when we left in March. Phone-as-webcam was more trouble than it was worth, but it did get me playing with OBS for better control over exposure, white balance, gamma, etc. From there I rigged up a couple of desk lights and clamp lights I had around for better lighting. Then I got a cheap green sheet to replace the white sheet I'd hung behind me to hide the junk room I've been using as a temp office. Then I hooked up a Shure mic to the old USB audio interface I used to have hooked up for messing with guitar. So now I've got the best sound, lighting, and video-loop backgrounds of the team. Yay? ;)
- monadic2 6y ago
  Lighting matters much, much more than the camera setup. What is a twitch streamer? Some kind of gaming culture?
samatman 6y ago
I went all-in on a decent mirrorless, lens, and some lighting. Not really for videoconferencing, but I use it for that as well. It's true that the bandwidth isn't there to push 4k. But being decently lit, with a real depth of field, large sensor and aperture, and the flattering effect of a good focal length, all adds up. I look a lot better than the other people on the call, and people notice and comment on that. This isn't worth a few grand on its own. But if you have other uses for decent video and photography equipment, or just find yourself needing an expensive hobby, you'll get a substantially better effect with it.
aikinai 6y ago
I use a nice mirrorless camera as my webcam. Every single person I meet with first comments on the image quality before we get into the meeting. It absolutely makes a difference. And I haven’t done anything about my lighting which is pretty terrible. At least I can set the exposure for my face regardless of whether the background ends up solid white or black.
- s5300 6y ago
  Can you tell us which?
  - aikinai 6y ago
    Yeah, I use my Sony α6600 with the Sigma 1.4 56mm lens. And an Elgato Cam Link 4K to hook it up to the computer. I certainly wouldn’t buy it just for a webcam, but I already have the camera and I got the Cam Link for my son’s violin performances that moved to Zoom for a while. Oh, also I use the ECM-B1M mic even though I use Bluetooth headphones. I realized Bluetooth headphones (at least on a Mac) drop down to super low quality when transmitting both audio and mic, so I only use them for my sound and rely on the camera mic through the Cam Link for input.
    - mavidser 6y ago
      Tangential for folks with more bluetooth knowledge than me - is there any bluetooth profile (or plans for a future high-bandwidth bluetooth version) which can support high quality audio while also supporting microphones? HFS/HSP is one of the major reasons why I'm still reluctant to use wireless headphones as my default playback device.
      - numpad0 6y ago
        Many proprietary wireless headphones do fine. “HFP but like A2DP” sadly don’t exist.
      - Moto7451 6y ago
        I use a Newer NW700 as my microphone attached to my standing desk with my wireless headphones. macOS makes managing this easy through either independent controls through the Sound control panel or as an aggregate device. For the road I found a pass through mic that plugs into my headphone’s line in and use it as wired headphones. The mic comes out on an arm and it does a much better job than an in line mic built into a cable.
gsich 6y ago
DSLR or DSLM with HDMI output.
- 867-5309 6y ago
  what use would that be for teleconferencing / facetime? nobody has an HDMI input
  - pdpi 6y ago
    I use one of these to use my camera as a webcam: https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4k https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4k
  - mcpherrinm 6y ago
    For about $20 you can get an HDMI capture device: https://www.theverge.com/21346571/cheap-cam-link-capture-card-streamer-clone-review-test-price https://www.theverge.com/21346571/cheap-cam-link-capture-car...
mdorazio 6y ago
Like a few other commenters here, after seeing how often I would be on camera and being tired of the potato quality of my laptop's built-in camera, I decided to do something about it. $60 worth of lighting recommended by YouTubers + a $7 HDMI to USB capture device off eBay plugged into the Sony RX100 I already had from years ago and now I regularly get people commenting on how good my video looks (bonus: it makes me look better, too).
- zingplex 6y ago
  Could you link to the lighting?
  - mdorazio 6y ago
    Sure thing. Check out [1] for the overview in video form. I saved some money by building my own softbox with cardboard, duct tape, aluminum foil, and white tissue paper (works surprisingly well), and got the corncob bulb direct from China [2] since the right color temp wasn't available on Amazon or eBay at the time. Note that if you go that route you'll probably need one of these [3] as well. Alternatively, you can grab one of these two-light kits for lots of light on the cheap [4], but you won't get much control over per-side intensity. Be sure to watch a few "video lighting tutorial" videos on YouTube to see how they are usually setup in relation to yourself and the camera for best results. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IF-VG69DAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IF-VG69DAU [2] https://www.ledlight1.com/40w-led-studio-light-bulb-e26-e27-medium-screw-base-5500k-standard-color-balanced-full-spectrum-photography-bulb-for-video-background-camera-lighting-p0015.html https://www.ledlight1.com/40w-led-studio-light-bulb-e26-e27-... [3] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X37NZSK/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X37NZSK/ [4] https://www.amazon.com/HPUSN-Professional-Photography-Continuous-Reflectors/dp/B07NBP6D98/ https://www.amazon.com/HPUSN-Professional-Photography-Contin...
    - zingplex 6y ago
      Are you using a single light source or multiple?
lkois 6y ago
You can set up your phone (or DSLR) as a webcam in a pinch, no need to purchase new hardware. I recently upgraded to a gaming laptop with no camera at all, and for a moment thought my remote working life would be burdened by expensive and clunky extra hardware to avoid seeming ineptly suited to working from home. Instead it's only burdened by awkward phone placement, but the image quality is much better than before.
astatine 6y ago
The Dell XPS 13 with the absurdly located camera - just above keyboard level. When I bought it, I had no intention of using it and had taped it over. And then 2020 happened. When I really need to show people my face on zoom, I now use DroidCam and make my phone the webcam. Works really well for me.
- fyfy18 6y ago
  It's not just Dell. I have an old iPad Pro I use for video calls (Zoom maxes my CPU on Linux) and when it's sitting in the case, the camera is either to the left or the right of where I am looking...
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  How do you mount your phone to the top of the laptop screen?
jethro_tell 6y ago
I use a 10 year old logitech c910 - 1080p with stereo mics and a room with indirect natural light and 1Gbps fiber internet connection. I have people ask me all the time if I'm a podcaster or streamer and mention that my setup looks really clean and sounds great. Most of my calls take less than 1Mbps upload during the call so it's probably not the internet's fault for the most part. Never had anyone say that with my laptop integrated cam on wifi. My guess is that now that every laptop has a camera and a mic just above the keyboard, we are just used to seeing shitty images and hearing garbled sound but apparently, it does make a difference.
867-5309 6y ago
to all those recommending better lighting: nobody sits in a dark or unlit room when using a webcam. we shouldn't need to buy more crap at extra expense and space just to make something which should work work. it's the cheap components in the cameras which are the problem. I don't understand why this seems to be the norm, it reminds me of laptops being sold with crappy resolution screens even though the underlying hardware was fully capable of outputting higher. they still exist actually it will take years before good quality webcams become the norm. we are only just starting to see them with built in IR sensors in mid to higher end models
- coldtea 6y ago
  >to all those recommending better lighting: nobody sits in a dark or unlit room when using a webcam. You'd be surprised.
  - 867-5309 6y ago
    not really, if you cannot see then the camera should not be able to, and the opposite applies
    - coldtea 6y ago
      Tons of people do Zoom from poorly lit rooms. Not because they prefer not to be seen, or go for the gothic vampire aesthetic, but because they don't know any better or don't have good lighting in their home office.
      - 867-5309 6y ago
        I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm saying they are still lit, even if a little. if the human eye is able to see in such conditions, why not an electronic device?
        markus92 6y ago
        Sensitivity and dynamic range of the human eye is far, far better than any camera sensor you can buy at a reasonable price.
kelnos 6y ago
I was thinking this: my upload speed maxes out around 10Mbps, and on a not-even-that-bad day can be as low as 4Mbps. (Thanks, Comcast.) Is that enough to transmit anywhere near the quality this camera can output? And even if there is, will Zoom do a good job finding the optimal encoding?
- wtallis 6y ago
  A higher quality sensor will mean less noise in the captured image (especially with poor lighting), so the compressed stream will spend more bits on encoding you and fewer bits on encoding artifacts. A better lens will reduce distortion and aberration. A larger sensor combined with a large aperture lens will enable a shallow depth of field, so your face can be in focus while the backdrop of your messy home office is out of focus—again helping spend your precious upload bandwidth on the details you want to be transmitting. 4Mbps is nowhere near low enough to level out all the differences between a crap camera and a great camera. With modern codecs, 4Mbps is actually quite a lot of room to work with; Zoom specifies a requirement of just 3Mbps for group video calls at 1080p, and even Twitch only supports up to 6Mbps.

A better investment will be in lighting. Good lighting makes a HUGE difference in the quality of the image.

I'm reusing an old Sony 4k handycam with an hdmi to usb c capture card and it looks way better than most. The larger sensor helps a ton.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dheera 6y ago

You could always use something other than Zoom. I often use my own barebones WebRTC thingy for 1:1 meetings and get crisp video.

jethro_tell 6y ago
Is this something you've built yourself or is this an open project. I'm looking for something like this if you can give more detail.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tony8000 6y ago
  Maybe this? https://www.getwatercooler.io/ https://www.getwatercooler.io/

spiffytech 6y ago

The post-covid internet is rife with stories where people discover their classmate/coworker is a Twitch streamer because the person pops onto Zoom with high-quality lighting and camera and their picture quality is so glorious that everyone else's looks like a fuzzy classic film by comparison. Most people's Zoom video is poor quality because it's "garbage in, garbage out". Barely-passable camera, and lighting that's actively hostile to picture quality, because nobody cares as long as your face is more or less visible.

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
> where people discover their classmate/coworker is a Twitch streamer Link?
- Twirrim 6y ago
  Anecdotally, that's how my team found out one of our co-workers does some Twitch streaming. He has a really good mic, camera and a 3-point light setup.
  - soylentcola 6y ago
    It's how my team had it reiterated that I like to mess around with things like this (especially when I'm already working from home). I still just have the basic Microsoft 1280x720 USB webcam that I grabbed from the office when we left in March. Phone-as-webcam was more trouble than it was worth, but it did get me playing with OBS for better control over exposure, white balance, gamma, etc. From there I rigged up a couple of desk lights and clamp lights I had around for better lighting. Then I got a cheap green sheet to replace the white sheet I'd hung behind me to hide the junk room I've been using as a temp office. Then I hooked up a Shure mic to the old USB audio interface I used to have hooked up for messing with guitar. So now I've got the best sound, lighting, and video-loop backgrounds of the team. Yay? ;)
monadic2 6y ago
Lighting matters much, much more than the camera setup. What is a twitch streamer? Some kind of gaming culture?

samatman 6y ago

I went all-in on a decent mirrorless, lens, and some lighting. Not really for videoconferencing, but I use it for that as well. It's true that the bandwidth isn't there to push 4k. But being decently lit, with a real depth of field, large sensor and aperture, and the flattering effect of a good focal length, all adds up. I look a lot better than the other people on the call, and people notice and comment on that. This isn't worth a few grand on its own. But if you have other uses for decent video and photography equipment, or just find yourself needing an expensive hobby, you'll get a substantially better effect with it.

aikinai 6y ago

I use a nice mirrorless camera as my webcam. Every single person I meet with first comments on the image quality before we get into the meeting. It absolutely makes a difference. And I haven’t done anything about my lighting which is pretty terrible. At least I can set the exposure for my face regardless of whether the background ends up solid white or black.

s5300 6y ago
Can you tell us which?
- aikinai 6y ago
  Yeah, I use my Sony α6600 with the Sigma 1.4 56mm lens. And an Elgato Cam Link 4K to hook it up to the computer. I certainly wouldn’t buy it just for a webcam, but I already have the camera and I got the Cam Link for my son’s violin performances that moved to Zoom for a while. Oh, also I use the ECM-B1M mic even though I use Bluetooth headphones. I realized Bluetooth headphones (at least on a Mac) drop down to super low quality when transmitting both audio and mic, so I only use them for my sound and rely on the camera mic through the Cam Link for input.
  - mavidser 6y ago
    Tangential for folks with more bluetooth knowledge than me - is there any bluetooth profile (or plans for a future high-bandwidth bluetooth version) which can support high quality audio while also supporting microphones? HFS/HSP is one of the major reasons why I'm still reluctant to use wireless headphones as my default playback device.
    - numpad0 6y ago
      Many proprietary wireless headphones do fine. “HFP but like A2DP” sadly don’t exist.
    - Moto7451 6y ago
      I use a Newer NW700 as my microphone attached to my standing desk with my wireless headphones. macOS makes managing this easy through either independent controls through the Sound control panel or as an aggregate device. For the road I found a pass through mic that plugs into my headphone’s line in and use it as wired headphones. The mic comes out on an arm and it does a much better job than an in line mic built into a cable.

gsich 6y ago

DSLR or DSLM with HDMI output.

867-5309 6y ago
what use would that be for teleconferencing / facetime? nobody has an HDMI input
- pdpi 6y ago
  I use one of these to use my camera as a webcam: https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4k https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4k
- mcpherrinm 6y ago
  For about $20 you can get an HDMI capture device: https://www.theverge.com/21346571/cheap-cam-link-capture-card-streamer-clone-review-test-price https://www.theverge.com/21346571/cheap-cam-link-capture-car...

mdorazio 6y ago

Like a few other commenters here, after seeing how often I would be on camera and being tired of the potato quality of my laptop's built-in camera, I decided to do something about it. $60 worth of lighting recommended by YouTubers + a $7 HDMI to USB capture device off eBay plugged into the Sony RX100 I already had from years ago and now I regularly get people commenting on how good my video looks (bonus: it makes me look better, too).

zingplex 6y ago
Could you link to the lighting?
- mdorazio 6y ago
  Sure thing. Check out [1] for the overview in video form. I saved some money by building my own softbox with cardboard, duct tape, aluminum foil, and white tissue paper (works surprisingly well), and got the corncob bulb direct from China [2] since the right color temp wasn't available on Amazon or eBay at the time. Note that if you go that route you'll probably need one of these [3] as well. Alternatively, you can grab one of these two-light kits for lots of light on the cheap [4], but you won't get much control over per-side intensity. Be sure to watch a few "video lighting tutorial" videos on YouTube to see how they are usually setup in relation to yourself and the camera for best results. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IF-VG69DAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IF-VG69DAU [2] https://www.ledlight1.com/40w-led-studio-light-bulb-e26-e27-medium-screw-base-5500k-standard-color-balanced-full-spectrum-photography-bulb-for-video-background-camera-lighting-p0015.html https://www.ledlight1.com/40w-led-studio-light-bulb-e26-e27-... [3] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X37NZSK/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X37NZSK/ [4] https://www.amazon.com/HPUSN-Professional-Photography-Continuous-Reflectors/dp/B07NBP6D98/ https://www.amazon.com/HPUSN-Professional-Photography-Contin...
  - zingplex 6y ago
    Are you using a single light source or multiple?

lkois 6y ago

You can set up your phone (or DSLR) as a webcam in a pinch, no need to purchase new hardware. I recently upgraded to a gaming laptop with no camera at all, and for a moment thought my remote working life would be burdened by expensive and clunky extra hardware to avoid seeming ineptly suited to working from home. Instead it's only burdened by awkward phone placement, but the image quality is much better than before.

astatine 6y ago

The Dell XPS 13 with the absurdly located camera - just above keyboard level. When I bought it, I had no intention of using it and had taped it over. And then 2020 happened. When I really need to show people my face on zoom, I now use DroidCam and make my phone the webcam. Works really well for me.

fyfy18 6y ago
It's not just Dell. I have an old iPad Pro I use for video calls (Zoom maxes my CPU on Linux) and when it's sitting in the case, the camera is either to the left or the right of where I am looking...
benhurmarcel 6y ago
How do you mount your phone to the top of the laptop screen?

jethro_tell 6y ago

I use a 10 year old logitech c910 - 1080p with stereo mics and a room with indirect natural light and 1Gbps fiber internet connection. I have people ask me all the time if I'm a podcaster or streamer and mention that my setup looks really clean and sounds great. Most of my calls take less than 1Mbps upload during the call so it's probably not the internet's fault for the most part. Never had anyone say that with my laptop integrated cam on wifi. My guess is that now that every laptop has a camera and a mic just above the keyboard, we are just used to seeing shitty images and hearing garbled sound but apparently, it does make a difference.

867-5309 6y ago

to all those recommending better lighting: nobody sits in a dark or unlit room when using a webcam. we shouldn't need to buy more crap at extra expense and space just to make something which should work work. it's the cheap components in the cameras which are the problem. I don't understand why this seems to be the norm, it reminds me of laptops being sold with crappy resolution screens even though the underlying hardware was fully capable of outputting higher. they still exist actually it will take years before good quality webcams become the norm. we are only just starting to see them with built in IR sensors in mid to higher end models

coldtea 6y ago
>to all those recommending better lighting: nobody sits in a dark or unlit room when using a webcam. You'd be surprised.
- 867-5309 6y ago
  not really, if you cannot see then the camera should not be able to, and the opposite applies
  - coldtea 6y ago
    Tons of people do Zoom from poorly lit rooms. Not because they prefer not to be seen, or go for the gothic vampire aesthetic, but because they don't know any better or don't have good lighting in their home office.
    - 867-5309 6y ago
      I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm saying they are still lit, even if a little. if the human eye is able to see in such conditions, why not an electronic device?
      - markus92 6y ago
        Sensitivity and dynamic range of the human eye is far, far better than any camera sensor you can buy at a reasonable price.

kelnos 6y ago

I was thinking this: my upload speed maxes out around 10Mbps, and on a not-even-that-bad day can be as low as 4Mbps. (Thanks, Comcast.) Is that enough to transmit anywhere near the quality this camera can output? And even if there is, will Zoom do a good job finding the optimal encoding?

wtallis 6y ago
A higher quality sensor will mean less noise in the captured image (especially with poor lighting), so the compressed stream will spend more bits on encoding you and fewer bits on encoding artifacts. A better lens will reduce distortion and aberration. A larger sensor combined with a large aperture lens will enable a shallow depth of field, so your face can be in focus while the backdrop of your messy home office is out of focus—again helping spend your precious upload bandwidth on the details you want to be transmitting. 4Mbps is nowhere near low enough to level out all the differences between a crap camera and a great camera. With modern codecs, 4Mbps is actually quite a lot of room to work with; Zoom specifies a requirement of just 3Mbps for group video calls at 1080p, and even Twitch only supports up to 6Mbps.