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I have friends who send back nearly everything. Not sure about shoe size? Order 3 sizes, keep the one you like and send back the other two (or return all 3 if

I have friends who send back nearly everything. Not sure about shoe size? Order 3 sizes, keep the one you like and send back the other two (or return all 3 if you dont like it). Want a shirt? Order 5 and keep the ones you like, if any.

vladvasiliu 6y ago
I'm sure there are people who abuse the system, but for you example of clothes, I'm not surprised there is a high number of returns. Last year I bought two Levis jeans at the same time. One the exact same model, color and size as the one I was wearing which was worn out, the other a different color (figured I could use having two pairs of jeans). None fit me correctly. The model I had already was too big, the other too small. Sent both of them back and made the effort to go to a brick and mortar store where I could try them. Turns out the sizes had changed or something. I ended up with a different cut, as the model I had was either too tight on the legs or too wide at the waist...
- loeg 6y ago
  Levis in particular are just notoriously inconsistent in sizing. At a brick and mortar store you grab five pairs to try on if you want to buy one or two.
  - emayljames 6y ago
    For mens sizes I find that very odd, as the size are defined units of measurement, unlike the headache that is womens sizes.
    - Ma8ee 6y ago
      Take out a tape measure and measure the actual size of a few different brands of trousers. They are never even close to the size that's on the label. Maybe men's clothes are more consistent than women's, but the label is always wrong by several inches.
      - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
        IME, except a couple of obvious mislabels, all men's clothes are with a couple of cms - I've never had an item more than a couple of cm out. Cut however, that's a different matter. Honestly some "designers" mustn't realise men have external genitalia.
        Ma8ee 6y ago
        Did you actually measure? After a few not so successful attempts to buy trousers online did I start to measure, and trousers that are supposed to measure 34" waist measured between 36" and 39".
    - loeg 6y ago
      Men's sizes are only nominally dimensional; there are various sources of potential error, and correcting for them adds cost.
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  I wouldn't even call it abuse. Buying clothes or shoes is in many cases impossible without trying them on. Also, you can't really see and feel the fabric before it's arrived. Hence, many companies have explicit free and easy return policies to encourage people to order a lot of stuff and keep only what they like. Not very eco-friendly, I know.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  It is always like that. Jeans expand when you use them. If you gain 3 lbs it might be really tight when getting new ones of the same size. I almost always buy 505s.
ChuckMcM 6y ago
This is the pattern I've seen as well. That and the anti-pattern of using Amazon as a quasi-tool-rental outlet where they buy something for a project, use it, and then return it after the project is done. The 'borrowing' aspect was also an issue at Fry's in the Bay Area where test equipment that they sold would have been used already. Of the two I think the 'borrowing' pattern to be pretty unscrupulous. I see the buy a bunch and return the ones you won't use/wear/eat what ever is more along the lines of the store fitting room approach.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  The tool borrowing is unscrupulous, but it provides a ready source of “Used-Very good” Amazon Warehouse tools at 15-35% off, which I do appreciate.
  - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
    I'd like to see Amazon start a lend/use program like auto parts stores. I guess they would have to verify tool functionality though, which can be expensive.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      The auto parts stores pretty much don’t, at least in my experience, and push it off to the customers/borrowers. I’ve gotten broken or incomplete tools from the (free) lending programs enough that I’ve mostly stopped using them and just buy tools instead. I don’t have time to get stuck halfway through a job and any $50-100 tool still leaves me with cash savings overall on the job. Even in cases where I told them I broke a piece in a kit, they didn’t seem to care and it looked like the kit was going right back into stock to me. Parts store do it because it gets you in the door to buy parts. If the lending was done through the mail, I’m sure Amazon would sell more parts, but it’s not clear it would be enough more profit to cover 2-way (or 4-way if a tool was broken) shipping on the tools.
      - justinclift 6y ago
withinrafael 6y ago
I do this and Amazon even encourages this pattern via its Prime Wardrobe and other past offerings.
- x87678r 6y ago
  Agreed, I think Zappo encouraged it too. It isn't abuse its a feature. I personally never send anything back, if I dont like it I just make do and complain.
x87678r 6y ago
I have to add its almost like this for other stuff. Its harder to showroom stuff and buy online now you need to order and return to try out. It isn't just clothes: laptops, furniture, nearly everything is likely to end up like this.
627467 6y ago
Sounds wasteful but if we assume normalization of online ordering for clothing (where good fit is important) then this is probably the most efficient way to handle this situation. I suppose ordering a single item, trying, returning then ordering 2 more times until you get the right fit: that sounds a lot more wasteful than order 3 items in one go and doing a single return. Now, IMO, ordering clothes (and shoes, or anything you're supposed to wear and where fit is important - at least important for a substantial demographic) through online shopping just doesn't seem to make as much sense as other things. I personally rarely buy online unless I'm talking about staples like shirt and tees that I've tried from certain brands and know how it fits (so don't need returning). As with other things... this huge shift to online ordering may make from efficiency perspective only when you ignore externalities and subsidies.
- lrem 6y ago
  My sister buys stuff from stores that advertise this to be the recommended way to buy. Huge box in, huge box out, still cheaper than renting brick and mortar space.
roywiggins 6y ago
It's not like the shoes are going out the door without them knowing that the same person just ordered three pairs in different sizes and is almost certainly going to be returning two of them. It's simply not possible to be sure about a shoe size sight unseen. Even within the same brand of shoe, fit varies. I have to assume a very high returns rate is totally expected by online shoe retailers (and for that matter offline ones).
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
  Even with the fancy foot scans I frequently have to do returns because the shape of my left heel is different than the shape of my right one. The overall length and with of the shoe as well as the height of the foot fits well, but the heel counter shape can cause a lot of trouble. I tend to buy another pair in the same model and size when I find a decent shoe, but obviously this doesn't work across models and brands. Last month I did 3 returns until I found an acceptable model.
echelon 6y ago
This is so incredibly wasteful. I hope we go back to shopping malls for clothing and fitted purchases.
- Ma8ee 6y ago
  I'm not so sure it is such a waste. From the perspective of the store, they save on retail space and personel. From and environmental perspective, the home deliveries are usually much more efficient, since they deliver to multiple nearby addresses in a single run, than single people driving their cars to the malls. I don't know exactly how it would balance in the end. It probably depends both on the type of goods and a lot on local circumstances. But don't take for granted that this is worse than it was before.
- mcv 6y ago
  I'm not so sure shopping malls are really less wasteful.
washadjeffmad 6y ago
That's how every woman in my life, ever, has shopped for apparel, from TJ Maxx to Saks to Amazon. I always felt bad about returns, but my SO worked retail in school and assured me this is how it's designed to be and how every big shopper does it. And I don't blame returners. There used to be a website that listed variance in sizes from major clothing brands and fashion lines, and it can be huge. If I like a cut of jeans or slacks, I have to try on several, and they without fail will not fit the same.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

vladvasiliu 6y ago

I'm sure there are people who abuse the system, but for you example of clothes, I'm not surprised there is a high number of returns. Last year I bought two Levis jeans at the same time. One the exact same model, color and size as the one I was wearing which was worn out, the other a different color (figured I could use having two pairs of jeans). None fit me correctly. The model I had already was too big, the other too small. Sent both of them back and made the effort to go to a brick and mortar store where I could try them. Turns out the sizes had changed or something. I ended up with a different cut, as the model I had was either too tight on the legs or too wide at the waist...

loeg 6y ago
Levis in particular are just notoriously inconsistent in sizing. At a brick and mortar store you grab five pairs to try on if you want to buy one or two.
- emayljames 6y ago
  For mens sizes I find that very odd, as the size are defined units of measurement, unlike the headache that is womens sizes.
  - Ma8ee 6y ago
    Take out a tape measure and measure the actual size of a few different brands of trousers. They are never even close to the size that's on the label. Maybe men's clothes are more consistent than women's, but the label is always wrong by several inches.
    - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
      IME, except a couple of obvious mislabels, all men's clothes are with a couple of cms - I've never had an item more than a couple of cm out. Cut however, that's a different matter. Honestly some "designers" mustn't realise men have external genitalia.
      - Ma8ee 6y ago
        Did you actually measure? After a few not so successful attempts to buy trousers online did I start to measure, and trousers that are supposed to measure 34" waist measured between 36" and 39".
  - loeg 6y ago
    Men's sizes are only nominally dimensional; there are various sources of potential error, and correcting for them adds cost.
burntoutfire 6y ago
I wouldn't even call it abuse. Buying clothes or shoes is in many cases impossible without trying them on. Also, you can't really see and feel the fabric before it's arrived. Hence, many companies have explicit free and easy return policies to encourage people to order a lot of stuff and keep only what they like. Not very eco-friendly, I know.
rightbyte 6y ago
It is always like that. Jeans expand when you use them. If you gain 3 lbs it might be really tight when getting new ones of the same size. I almost always buy 505s.

ChuckMcM 6y ago

This is the pattern I've seen as well. That and the anti-pattern of using Amazon as a quasi-tool-rental outlet where they buy something for a project, use it, and then return it after the project is done. The 'borrowing' aspect was also an issue at Fry's in the Bay Area where test equipment that they sold would have been used already. Of the two I think the 'borrowing' pattern to be pretty unscrupulous. I see the buy a bunch and return the ones you won't use/wear/eat what ever is more along the lines of the store fitting room approach.

sokoloff 6y ago
The tool borrowing is unscrupulous, but it provides a ready source of “Used-Very good” Amazon Warehouse tools at 15-35% off, which I do appreciate.
- omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
  I'd like to see Amazon start a lend/use program like auto parts stores. I guess they would have to verify tool functionality though, which can be expensive.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    The auto parts stores pretty much don’t, at least in my experience, and push it off to the customers/borrowers. I’ve gotten broken or incomplete tools from the (free) lending programs enough that I’ve mostly stopped using them and just buy tools instead. I don’t have time to get stuck halfway through a job and any $50-100 tool still leaves me with cash savings overall on the job. Even in cases where I told them I broke a piece in a kit, they didn’t seem to care and it looked like the kit was going right back into stock to me. Parts store do it because it gets you in the door to buy parts. If the lending was done through the mail, I’m sure Amazon would sell more parts, but it’s not clear it would be enough more profit to cover 2-way (or 4-way if a tool was broken) shipping on the tools.
    - justinclift 6y ago

withinrafael 6y ago

I do this and Amazon even encourages this pattern via its Prime Wardrobe and other past offerings.

x87678r 6y ago
Agreed, I think Zappo encouraged it too. It isn't abuse its a feature. I personally never send anything back, if I dont like it I just make do and complain.

x87678r 6y ago

I have to add its almost like this for other stuff. Its harder to showroom stuff and buy online now you need to order and return to try out. It isn't just clothes: laptops, furniture, nearly everything is likely to end up like this.

627467 6y ago

Sounds wasteful but if we assume normalization of online ordering for clothing (where good fit is important) then this is probably the most efficient way to handle this situation. I suppose ordering a single item, trying, returning then ordering 2 more times until you get the right fit: that sounds a lot more wasteful than order 3 items in one go and doing a single return. Now, IMO, ordering clothes (and shoes, or anything you're supposed to wear and where fit is important - at least important for a substantial demographic) through online shopping just doesn't seem to make as much sense as other things. I personally rarely buy online unless I'm talking about staples like shirt and tees that I've tried from certain brands and know how it fits (so don't need returning). As with other things... this huge shift to online ordering may make from efficiency perspective only when you ignore externalities and subsidies.

lrem 6y ago
My sister buys stuff from stores that advertise this to be the recommended way to buy. Huge box in, huge box out, still cheaper than renting brick and mortar space.

roywiggins 6y ago

It's not like the shoes are going out the door without them knowing that the same person just ordered three pairs in different sizes and is almost certainly going to be returning two of them. It's simply not possible to be sure about a shoe size sight unseen. Even within the same brand of shoe, fit varies. I have to assume a very high returns rate is totally expected by online shoe retailers (and for that matter offline ones).

isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
Even with the fancy foot scans I frequently have to do returns because the shape of my left heel is different than the shape of my right one. The overall length and with of the shoe as well as the height of the foot fits well, but the heel counter shape can cause a lot of trouble. I tend to buy another pair in the same model and size when I find a decent shoe, but obviously this doesn't work across models and brands. Last month I did 3 returns until I found an acceptable model.

echelon 6y ago

This is so incredibly wasteful. I hope we go back to shopping malls for clothing and fitted purchases.

Ma8ee 6y ago
I'm not so sure it is such a waste. From the perspective of the store, they save on retail space and personel. From and environmental perspective, the home deliveries are usually much more efficient, since they deliver to multiple nearby addresses in a single run, than single people driving their cars to the malls. I don't know exactly how it would balance in the end. It probably depends both on the type of goods and a lot on local circumstances. But don't take for granted that this is worse than it was before.
mcv 6y ago
I'm not so sure shopping malls are really less wasteful.

washadjeffmad 6y ago

That's how every woman in my life, ever, has shopped for apparel, from TJ Maxx to Saks to Amazon. I always felt bad about returns, but my SO worked retail in school and assured me this is how it's designed to be and how every big shopper does it. And I don't blame returners. There used to be a website that listed variance in sizes from major clothing brands and fashion lines, and it can be huge. If I like a cut of jeans or slacks, I have to try on several, and they without fail will not fit the same.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]