7 ms·

Megadosing B12 (if your diet isn't already sufficient in it, which is common amongst certain vegan diets) is still a good idea, no? I recognize this might be th

Megadosing B12 (if your diet isn't already sufficient in it, which is common amongst certain vegan diets) is still a good idea, no? I recognize this might be the only exception.

phobosanomaly 6y ago
I don't see any evidence that it's a bad idea, but from poking around I get the feeling that there is still a lot about it that we don't know. For instance, it may be monkeying around with blood flow to the kidneys somehow. "Among patients with diabetic nephropathy, high doses of B vitamins compared with placebo resulted in a greater decrease in GFR and an increase in vascular events." https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/185758 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/185758 House AA, Eliasziw M, Cattran DC, et al. Effect of B-Vitamin Therapy on Progression of Diabetic Nephropathy: A Randomized Controlled Trial. JAMA. 2010;303(16):1603–1609. doi:10.1001/jama.2010.490 So, it's probably fine, but honestly nobody really knows.
- xkcd-sucks 6y ago
  I mean yeah if you're doing heroic doses of something that you pee out, then your kidneys will be stressed out ... if you're doing heroic doses of something you can't pee out then it's a bit worse
LegitShady 6y ago
"megadosing" doesn't sound like its required for any reason unless you're malnourished, in which case your doctor would tell you how much to take. Adjusting your diet to not require "megadosing" due to malnourishment sounds like a better plan for long term health.
- copperx 6y ago
  In addition, studies suggest that high levels of B6 and B12 in the blood are correlated with higher risk of certain cancers, such as prostate and lung cancer. In my opinion, having mild nutrient deficiency is not cause for alarm if you're a fully grown adult, and in fact, studies suggest that malnutrition might confer a longer lifespan.
  - zuminator 6y ago
    Are those malnutrition studies about nutrient deficiency or caloric deficiency?
  - LegitShady 6y ago
    I do not think those are good suggestions for the average person. I've read meta analyses about low caloric intake but not about malnutrition, which in general is a bad idea. That being said most people who aren't severely restricting the types of food they eat, and eating healthy food, are unlikely to have significant malnutrition. The lung cancer thing I remember was specifically smokers, so its not straightforward.
  - scythe 6y ago
    >studies suggest that malnutrition might confer a longer lifespan. There are some data suggesting that inadequate supply of this or that nutrient reduces certain aging mechanisms and leads to longer lifespans in a laboratory setting. However, outside of a laboratory setting these nutrient deficiencies can affect the body's ability to fight infections and heal injuries, which on average cancels out any benefits. More generally, trying to increase lifespan by adjusting the diet seems to me like trying to fix a car by playing with the buttons and knobs on the dashboard. You might obtain a small improvement, but you're not really going to get anywhere unless you open the hood.
sva_ 6y ago
The trouble with Vitamin D is afaik, as with some other vitamins, that it is fat-soluble rather than water-soluble. So the excess of the Vitamin won't be flushed out through the urine - but rather accumulates in the fat. At some point this accumulation may lead to toxicity ("Hypervitaminosis D" [1]). Personally, I dose 4000-5000 IU D3+K2 in the darker seasons and that has been working well for me. Vitamin B12 is water-soluble and therefore should not cause accumulation in healthy people. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_toxicity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_toxicity
- sneak 6y ago
  It's my understanding that oral availability is lower than IM, and that people who are deficient get 70,000 IU injections. I'm entirely untrained, but my amateur evaluation of the situation leads me to take 50,000 IU orally once each week or two. I imagine that twice that amount would be fine, too.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    > I imagine... That's not really science. Given it's your body, the most valuable thing you have, perhaps a more fact-based approach is warranted?
  - wutbrodo 6y ago
    I was pretty deficient (14 ng/ML) and I was prescribed 50k/week orally.
- fizwhiz 6y ago
  Do you dose the D3/K2 combo on a daily basis? I've got https://amzn.com/B075R56QCQ https://amzn.com/B075R56QCQ which i do ~3 times a week.
  - e9 6y ago
    I did that every day and started to have muscle pains and weakness after a while. After doing some research and experimentations, turns out you also need to take magnesium if that happens.
fizwhiz 6y ago
I sure hope so because I've been taking half a serving of these little suckers for a while now: https://amzn.com/B001LXRWWE https://amzn.com/B001LXRWWE Here's a breakdown of the DV for some of the vitamins for a full serving: B1 = 33x (yes, 3333%) B2 = 30x B6 = 40x B12= 83x
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
  Why would you need so much?
  - lgats 6y ago
    Supplement Marketing
  - e9 6y ago
    If you do strenuous workouts frequently then this helps you recover faster and workout longer. If you are just couch potato then it’s actually detrimental and you can develop all sorts of problems including peripheral neuropathy.
    - tedunangst 6y ago
      Is there reason to believe that 10x vitamin B is insufficient to recover from a workout?
    - Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
      Strenuous workouts don't cause chronic deficiency and don't eliminate chronic overdosing.
      - e9 6y ago
        I used to run ultra marathons, when you push your body to the limit like this, you do run into limits and deficiencies, not chronically but during hours of running and this extra overdosing does help the body function better
e9 6y ago
I do that. I drink at least one 5-hour energy drink per day. I feel less depressed when I do that, but don’t try this at home without consulting doctor. I experiment with myself a lot and know my limits.
innomatics 6y ago
B3 overdose is dangerous if you have susceptibility to gout. This happened to me after I inadvertently megadosed by consuming a knock-off Berocca drink containing something like 10x RDI. That was over 10 years ago. I have not had a gout attack since. Edited: Risk is actually for Vit B3 (Niacin). The drink I had contained massive amounts of B12, B3 and others. https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-niacin/art-20364984 https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-niacin/art-2036...
juandazapata 6y ago
Megadosing B12 gave me dizziness and trouble sleeping (I had hypervitaminosis)
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
No, megadosing B12 isn’t a universally great idea. For example, elevated B12 levels are associated with increased lung cancer risk in a dose-response fashion: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30499135/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30499135/ The only time megadosing B12 is a good idea is if you have confirmed low levels via a blood test and need to quickly raise your levels to the normal range. Don’t assume you can guess your B12 status by reading random articles on the Internet. Low B12 has become a favorite hypothesis among the alternate medicine crowd, so online information about B12 supplementation has become corrupted with pseudoscience. I’ll admit that I fell for the idea that B12 deficiency was rampant due to modern diets. Then I got a blood test and discovered that my B12 levels were toward the upper end of the reference range already. On the bright side, B12 absorption is very nonlinear. A megadose might only cause slightly more absorption than what you find in a regular multivitamin. Most of the megadose is simply not absorbed.

Megadosing B12 (if your diet isn't already sufficient in it, which is common amongst certain vegan diets) is still a good idea, no? I recognize this might be the only exception.

phobosanomaly 6y ago

I don't see any evidence that it's a bad idea, but from poking around I get the feeling that there is still a lot about it that we don't know. For instance, it may be monkeying around with blood flow to the kidneys somehow. "Among patients with diabetic nephropathy, high doses of B vitamins compared with placebo resulted in a greater decrease in GFR and an increase in vascular events." https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/185758 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/185758 House AA, Eliasziw M, Cattran DC, et al. Effect of B-Vitamin Therapy on Progression of Diabetic Nephropathy: A Randomized Controlled Trial. JAMA. 2010;303(16):1603–1609. doi:10.1001/jama.2010.490 So, it's probably fine, but honestly nobody really knows.

xkcd-sucks 6y ago
I mean yeah if you're doing heroic doses of something that you pee out, then your kidneys will be stressed out ... if you're doing heroic doses of something you can't pee out then it's a bit worse

LegitShady 6y ago

"megadosing" doesn't sound like its required for any reason unless you're malnourished, in which case your doctor would tell you how much to take. Adjusting your diet to not require "megadosing" due to malnourishment sounds like a better plan for long term health.

copperx 6y ago
In addition, studies suggest that high levels of B6 and B12 in the blood are correlated with higher risk of certain cancers, such as prostate and lung cancer. In my opinion, having mild nutrient deficiency is not cause for alarm if you're a fully grown adult, and in fact, studies suggest that malnutrition might confer a longer lifespan.
- zuminator 6y ago
  Are those malnutrition studies about nutrient deficiency or caloric deficiency?
- LegitShady 6y ago
  I do not think those are good suggestions for the average person. I've read meta analyses about low caloric intake but not about malnutrition, which in general is a bad idea. That being said most people who aren't severely restricting the types of food they eat, and eating healthy food, are unlikely to have significant malnutrition. The lung cancer thing I remember was specifically smokers, so its not straightforward.
- scythe 6y ago
  >studies suggest that malnutrition might confer a longer lifespan. There are some data suggesting that inadequate supply of this or that nutrient reduces certain aging mechanisms and leads to longer lifespans in a laboratory setting. However, outside of a laboratory setting these nutrient deficiencies can affect the body's ability to fight infections and heal injuries, which on average cancels out any benefits. More generally, trying to increase lifespan by adjusting the diet seems to me like trying to fix a car by playing with the buttons and knobs on the dashboard. You might obtain a small improvement, but you're not really going to get anywhere unless you open the hood.

sva_ 6y ago

The trouble with Vitamin D is afaik, as with some other vitamins, that it is fat-soluble rather than water-soluble. So the excess of the Vitamin won't be flushed out through the urine - but rather accumulates in the fat. At some point this accumulation may lead to toxicity ("Hypervitaminosis D" [1]). Personally, I dose 4000-5000 IU D3+K2 in the darker seasons and that has been working well for me. Vitamin B12 is water-soluble and therefore should not cause accumulation in healthy people. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_toxicity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_toxicity

sneak 6y ago
It's my understanding that oral availability is lower than IM, and that people who are deficient get 70,000 IU injections. I'm entirely untrained, but my amateur evaluation of the situation leads me to take 50,000 IU orally once each week or two. I imagine that twice that amount would be fine, too.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  > I imagine... That's not really science. Given it's your body, the most valuable thing you have, perhaps a more fact-based approach is warranted?
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  I was pretty deficient (14 ng/ML) and I was prescribed 50k/week orally.
fizwhiz 6y ago
Do you dose the D3/K2 combo on a daily basis? I've got https://amzn.com/B075R56QCQ https://amzn.com/B075R56QCQ which i do ~3 times a week.
- e9 6y ago
  I did that every day and started to have muscle pains and weakness after a while. After doing some research and experimentations, turns out you also need to take magnesium if that happens.

fizwhiz 6y ago

I sure hope so because I've been taking half a serving of these little suckers for a while now: https://amzn.com/B001LXRWWE https://amzn.com/B001LXRWWE Here's a breakdown of the DV for some of the vitamins for a full serving: B1 = 33x (yes, 3333%) B2 = 30x B6 = 40x B12= 83x

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
Why would you need so much?
- lgats 6y ago
  Supplement Marketing
- e9 6y ago
  If you do strenuous workouts frequently then this helps you recover faster and workout longer. If you are just couch potato then it’s actually detrimental and you can develop all sorts of problems including peripheral neuropathy.
  - tedunangst 6y ago
    Is there reason to believe that 10x vitamin B is insufficient to recover from a workout?
  - Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
    Strenuous workouts don't cause chronic deficiency and don't eliminate chronic overdosing.
    - e9 6y ago
      I used to run ultra marathons, when you push your body to the limit like this, you do run into limits and deficiencies, not chronically but during hours of running and this extra overdosing does help the body function better

e9 6y ago

I do that. I drink at least one 5-hour energy drink per day. I feel less depressed when I do that, but don’t try this at home without consulting doctor. I experiment with myself a lot and know my limits.

innomatics 6y ago

B3 overdose is dangerous if you have susceptibility to gout. This happened to me after I inadvertently megadosed by consuming a knock-off Berocca drink containing something like 10x RDI. That was over 10 years ago. I have not had a gout attack since. Edited: Risk is actually for Vit B3 (Niacin). The drink I had contained massive amounts of B12, B3 and others. https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-niacin/art-20364984 https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-niacin/art-2036...

juandazapata 6y ago

Megadosing B12 gave me dizziness and trouble sleeping (I had hypervitaminosis)

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

No, megadosing B12 isn’t a universally great idea. For example, elevated B12 levels are associated with increased lung cancer risk in a dose-response fashion: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30499135/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30499135/ The only time megadosing B12 is a good idea is if you have confirmed low levels via a blood test and need to quickly raise your levels to the normal range. Don’t assume you can guess your B12 status by reading random articles on the Internet. Low B12 has become a favorite hypothesis among the alternate medicine crowd, so online information about B12 supplementation has become corrupted with pseudoscience. I’ll admit that I fell for the idea that B12 deficiency was rampant due to modern diets. Then I got a blood test and discovered that my B12 levels were toward the upper end of the reference range already. On the bright side, B12 absorption is very nonlinear. A megadose might only cause slightly more absorption than what you find in a regular multivitamin. Most of the megadose is simply not absorbed.