11 ms·

GPSLogger has been removed from the Play Store, and development has been paused

181 points by NelsonMinar 6y ago

shiftpgdn 6y ago
Once again another small independent publisher is driven off of a Google platform because Google's complete inability to provide even the smallest amount of customer service. I'm sad this app has been removed because A. I use it semi-frequently, and B. The play store is FULL of malicious software/spamware.
- app4soft 6y ago
  Probably there is C: same or similar apps naming (especially if general name of such software chosen as particular app name, e.g. "Notes", "File Manager"). JFTR, There are actually 2× apps with very similar names: - "GPSLogger" (mentioned in this thread);[0] - "GPS Logger" (I use this one).[1] [0] https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/com.mendhak.gpslogger https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/com.mendhak.gpslogg... [1] https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/eu.basicairdata.graziano.gpslogger https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/eu.basicairdata.gra...
- lvs 6y ago
  This problem really runs across all their services. Google does not culturally or institutionally care about customer service. Humans are sort of an annoying middle-man between them and their ad revenue. With the market position they have, investing in customer service is superfluous.
- iJohnDoe 6y ago
  Great comment and great point that is often missed by most but shouldn’t be. Google will drive legit apps off the store but allow malware to linger for months or years. If there was ever a public failure by a company then this is it. Where is the failure occurring in Google? I know it to be their outsourced India workforce. Some disagree. If not India, then what is the reason?
- duxup 6y ago
  I don't think the gist of what you're saying is wrong, but it reads like this is someone who really wanted to support older devices, on a platform that ... doesn't support older devices. Maybe they (google) should support older devices but the author chose to swim upstream to some extent here. Admirable goal but perhaps as a decision, one that comes with a lot of hassle and inevitable conflict with the platform they chose.
app4soft 6y ago
> If the motivation and energy ever return I could consider moving to normal F-Droid, which will require stripping out GDrive, Dropbox and a few other proprietary features. Switch to F-Droid! - Remove GDrive/Dropbox and other proprietary features; - Add Nextcloud/ownCloud/Syncthing and similar open-source features; - Fully move to F-Droid; - Remove page from Google Play Store.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  Unfortunately, Google prevents F-Droid from competing with the Play Store on feature parity, because F-Droid is not allowed to do batch installs, background installs, or auto-upgrading due to limitations put in Android.
  - ObsoleteNerd 6y ago
    But there’s still a core group of people willing to put up with that and use F-Droid, and having the app used by that group of enthusiasts is better than it not being used at all. Considering this app is used a lot on older secondary phones, it’s actually very likely people who want to use it would go to the little bit of extra effort required to use it via F-Droid.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      I agree, I just wanted to point out Google's anti-competitive behavior regarding app distribution on Android.
  - chmln 6y ago
    Note that you can totally do all of those if you root your device. Highly recommend.
    - easyKL 6y ago
      or by having Privileged Extension (for background installs & auto-upgrading) and a personal repo (for batch installs)
larrysalibra 6y ago
I had a similar experience with an open source browser extension on Google’s Chrome Store. The loudest complaints seem to be about Apple’s walled garden stores presumably because that’s where the money, but in my experience Google and even Mozilla seem to be more arbitrary in their policies/behavior. Googzilla tend to approve your app or extension and then a couple weeks later they start emailing you about various policy changes or policy updates or reviewer questions with arbitrary response deadlines such as “We will remove your extension in 7 days if you don’t send our reviewer a link to the README in your open source GitHub repo and explain again how to follow the instructions to build it. (Type ‘make build’!) It would be nice to finish the review process before approving an app. If you have new policies apply them on the next review or ask your questions when a future update is submitted.
- nicbou 6y ago
  I made two apps and an extension. They're all gone because I got tired of the work it required to just keep them in the store. Every few months, I had to upload a new type of image preview, or confirm that the app didn't sell cigarettes in South Ossetia, or some other pointless update. The code was the same, but the requirements kept changing.
heavyset_go 6y ago
This is why third-party app stores and alternative distribution models are so necessary on phones and tablets.
- izacus 6y ago
  Is that so the developers can just continue ignoring new privacy and security features added to the OS?
  - kwhitefoot 6y ago
    How does putting an app on a third party app store (G-Droid for instance) allow it to ignore new privacy and security features?
intricatedetail 6y ago
Is there an alternative app store on Android? We should maybe lobby to make this Apple Google duopoly illegal. In my opinion those companies make crazy money by gatekeeping phones and spying.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  There are, but Google put limitations in Android so that third parties can't implement all of the features the Play Store has. You can't implement automatic upgrades, background installation, or the batch installs that the Play Store provides.
  - izacus 6y ago
    That's not true at all - Samsung, Huawei and other stores have the same feature set as Play store.
    - MereInterest 6y ago
      Is that because users are free to install a different store, or because manufacturers are able to implement their own specially-privileged store as well?
    - wmf 6y ago
      I think the distinction is not Google vs. others but preinstalled (can do everything) vs. sideloaded (e.g. Epic/Amazon, can't do background install/update).
      - izacus 6y ago
        Exactly - the store needs to be a privileged app. Unfortunately that will be fixed only in next iteration of Android :/
        jokowueu 6y ago
        Next iteration ?! Do you have any sources . Thank you
BuildTheRobots 6y ago
> The core of the issue (why it gets removed) has been that GPSLogger supports a lot of older devices and frameworks, whereas the Play Store is always trying to get everyone onto the latest versions. The enforced obsolescence is infuriating. Whilst you can argue the security implications of older devices, an offline task like being thrown in the top of a backpack recording a gps trace is a great use of old hardware. Google making it difficult for devs going out of their way to support this is upsetting.
- anuila 6y ago
  Why not just use an older version if you have an older device? Supporting years of ever-changing APIs is evidently painful. As a macOS user I’m kinda used to seeing “latest version for macOS 123 is a.b.c”
  - tetris11 6y ago
    Because hardware shouldn't be considered dead if it can easily support new software, and the only hindrance is the profit model of marketplace in which it is distributed
    - anuila 6y ago
      > if it can easily support new software Judging by the author’s comment, it's not easy, that's the whole point.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        The hardware is capable of easily supporting the new software, but only if it gets OS updates. The problem isn't the hardware, it's the manufacturers.
  - Firerouge 6y ago
    It can be difficult to find older versions of apps from reputable sources, and often as difficult to know what OS version/architectures/screen sizes an old app will work with, at least on Android.
wmf 6y ago
The core of the issue ... has been that GPSLogger supports a lot of older devices and frameworks ... a majority of GPSLogger users are on older devices. This has led to a lot of complexity in the codebase and inevitably (and expectedly) made it difficult to support and maintain while keeping up with the latest Play Store requirements and user feature requests and PRs and issues, and giving them the attention they deserve. I think the author is being too hard on himself. Investing massive effort to maintain a free app for people who don't invest anything themselves is not a personal failure.
- winter_blue 6y ago
  Yup, if he charged a monthly subscription for it, things would be a lot more equitable.
  - tetris11 6y ago
    Maybe, but the GPL license is suggestive that the author started and continued to work on this project because it was seen as a genuine benefit to others, and for many years that was enough to keep them going. Sure financial incentive would have greased the wheels, but it might have undermined the spirit of the project in the first place
    - unishark 6y ago
      People generally pay for products in order to get a benefit. It's still genuine. The difference is the seller gets to share some of the benefit.
      - theamk 6y ago
        The human mind is funny this way: sometimes getting small amounts of money is worse than not getting money at all. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect
  - mehrdadn 6y ago
FpUser 6y ago
I guess I am spoiled by the Windows and Linux on PC and embedded on microcontrollers where as a developer I do what I want how I want. I did entertain the idea of porting some of my products to mobile but after reading their terms and conditions I decided not to get involved in those platforms. Way too much control over what I do. Waiting for either Linux becoming mainstream on mobile (likely never happens but who knows) and lately some stuff using browser as a platform becomes viable as well.
- rbecker 6y ago
  > I did entertain the idea of porting some of my products to mobile but after reading their terms and conditions I decided not to get involved Could you elaborate? Which mobile platforms demanded what sorts of conditions?
  - FpUser 6y ago
    I'll give you one example. They are in control of your very application existence on their platform. I can't have that. Other then that there are tons of things you can not do / discouraged from doing. You are free to read up on their relevant documentation. If you do develop on mobile you probably already know all of it way better than I do.
    - rbecker 6y ago
      > If you do develop on mobile you probably already know all of it way better than I do. I don't, that's why I ask. And are these conditions only for being placed in Apple's/Google's app stores? > You are free to read up on their relevant documentation. I imagine there's a lot of it - I was hoping you'd spare me the effort.
- vbezhenar 6y ago
  You can develop what you want and distribute your application outside of Google Play Store.
  - 6y ago
lazyjeff 6y ago
Surprised to see GPSLogger here on Hacker News. I've been using it for 8 years now, basically ever since it's been possible to track location on a phone all day without recharging. This app is a gem. Besides Google Location History / Google Timeline, GPSLogger is pretty much the only way to have records of your location. I've used it for research (we mention it in an academic paper on location-based memories), for my own records to see where I've been (like "how many times have I been to this area before"), and statistical analysis of my everyday habits. If you want long-term location history, GPSLogger is probably the only way to do this. The alternate, Google Location History, has only been really reliable for the past few years, whereas there was a long period when GPSLogger beat it hands down in terms of accuracy because it would do GPS with cell tower fallback, which is probably the best setup in terms of battery-accuracy tradeoff. The author implemented this in 2013 (it was an issue I filed [0]), and combined with the configurability of when it should try to get your coordinates, you can get long/lat records for almost no battery. If you want to own your own data, and export data automatically, GPSLogger is also the only way since Google doesn't let you automate data export as far as I know (plus if they did, you'd have to rewrite that code every year). My instance of this app has run in the background, syncing data hourly for months without needing a restart. GPSLogger is one of the reasons I stick with Android. I'll keep using it even if I have to sideload the APK. It's really sad that the author has had to go through all this stress. But it's also worth noting there isn't a way to collect location records on iPhone at all, or sideload an app (ipa/apk), so Android is still the more open of the two platforms. The buffet of apps that used to do this type of location tracking (Moves, Gyroscope, Foursquare, and a bunch of indie apps) are basically all gone or pivoted away. I'm disappointed that there's such a mindset here that apps should have subscriptions / revenue to be worth maintaining. Freeware and "indie" open source supports the long tail of usage. The popular apps can only get to 80% of the use cases out there. This also shows the inadvertent double-edged sword of privacy/security of indie apps, as they often use more hack-ey techniques which are the first to get blocked out. The most private/secure app is one that does nothing more than a website. [0] https://github.com/mendhak/gpslogger/issues/184 https://github.com/mendhak/gpslogger/issues/184
- nicbou 6y ago
  Check out OwnTracks. It's a different approach, but it's also really nice. I use it as a poor man's GPS beacon on my motorcycle trips.
Jyaif 6y ago
In the playstore you can support old devices by keeping the old apks available (http://developer.android.com/google/play/publishing/multiple-apks.html#Rules http://developer.android.com/google/play/publishing/multiple...). This would work very well for GPSLogger.
BMSmnqXAE4yfe1 6y ago
Maybe it was removed because it falls under "spying tools" category? If it's your own phone, you can easily track your movements via Google location history, but this one can be installed on your spouse's phone and will silently email you their locations at all times.

181 points by NelsonMinar 6y ago

Once again another small independent publisher is driven off of a Google platform because Google's complete inability to provide even the smallest amount of customer service. I'm sad this app has been removed because A. I use it semi-frequently, and B. The play store is FULL of malicious software/spamware.

app4soft 6y ago
Probably there is C: same or similar apps naming (especially if general name of such software chosen as particular app name, e.g. "Notes", "File Manager"). JFTR, There are actually 2× apps with very similar names: - "GPSLogger" (mentioned in this thread);[0] - "GPS Logger" (I use this one).[1] [0] https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/com.mendhak.gpslogger https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/com.mendhak.gpslogg... [1] https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/eu.basicairdata.graziano.gpslogger https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/eu.basicairdata.gra...
lvs 6y ago
This problem really runs across all their services. Google does not culturally or institutionally care about customer service. Humans are sort of an annoying middle-man between them and their ad revenue. With the market position they have, investing in customer service is superfluous.
iJohnDoe 6y ago
Great comment and great point that is often missed by most but shouldn’t be. Google will drive legit apps off the store but allow malware to linger for months or years. If there was ever a public failure by a company then this is it. Where is the failure occurring in Google? I know it to be their outsourced India workforce. Some disagree. If not India, then what is the reason?
duxup 6y ago
I don't think the gist of what you're saying is wrong, but it reads like this is someone who really wanted to support older devices, on a platform that ... doesn't support older devices. Maybe they (google) should support older devices but the author chose to swim upstream to some extent here. Admirable goal but perhaps as a decision, one that comes with a lot of hassle and inevitable conflict with the platform they chose.

app4soft 6y ago

> If the motivation and energy ever return I could consider moving to normal F-Droid, which will require stripping out GDrive, Dropbox and a few other proprietary features. Switch to F-Droid! - Remove GDrive/Dropbox and other proprietary features; - Add Nextcloud/ownCloud/Syncthing and similar open-source features; - Fully move to F-Droid; - Remove page from Google Play Store.

heavyset_go 6y ago
Unfortunately, Google prevents F-Droid from competing with the Play Store on feature parity, because F-Droid is not allowed to do batch installs, background installs, or auto-upgrading due to limitations put in Android.
- ObsoleteNerd 6y ago
  But there’s still a core group of people willing to put up with that and use F-Droid, and having the app used by that group of enthusiasts is better than it not being used at all. Considering this app is used a lot on older secondary phones, it’s actually very likely people who want to use it would go to the little bit of extra effort required to use it via F-Droid.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    I agree, I just wanted to point out Google's anti-competitive behavior regarding app distribution on Android.
- chmln 6y ago
  Note that you can totally do all of those if you root your device. Highly recommend.
  - easyKL 6y ago
    or by having Privileged Extension (for background installs & auto-upgrading) and a personal repo (for batch installs)

larrysalibra 6y ago

I had a similar experience with an open source browser extension on Google’s Chrome Store. The loudest complaints seem to be about Apple’s walled garden stores presumably because that’s where the money, but in my experience Google and even Mozilla seem to be more arbitrary in their policies/behavior. Googzilla tend to approve your app or extension and then a couple weeks later they start emailing you about various policy changes or policy updates or reviewer questions with arbitrary response deadlines such as “We will remove your extension in 7 days if you don’t send our reviewer a link to the README in your open source GitHub repo and explain again how to follow the instructions to build it. (Type ‘make build’!) It would be nice to finish the review process before approving an app. If you have new policies apply them on the next review or ask your questions when a future update is submitted.

nicbou 6y ago
I made two apps and an extension. They're all gone because I got tired of the work it required to just keep them in the store. Every few months, I had to upload a new type of image preview, or confirm that the app didn't sell cigarettes in South Ossetia, or some other pointless update. The code was the same, but the requirements kept changing.

heavyset_go 6y ago

This is why third-party app stores and alternative distribution models are so necessary on phones and tablets.

izacus 6y ago
Is that so the developers can just continue ignoring new privacy and security features added to the OS?
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  How does putting an app on a third party app store (G-Droid for instance) allow it to ignore new privacy and security features?

intricatedetail 6y ago

Is there an alternative app store on Android? We should maybe lobby to make this Apple Google duopoly illegal. In my opinion those companies make crazy money by gatekeeping phones and spying.

heavyset_go 6y ago
There are, but Google put limitations in Android so that third parties can't implement all of the features the Play Store has. You can't implement automatic upgrades, background installation, or the batch installs that the Play Store provides.
- izacus 6y ago
  That's not true at all - Samsung, Huawei and other stores have the same feature set as Play store.
  - MereInterest 6y ago
    Is that because users are free to install a different store, or because manufacturers are able to implement their own specially-privileged store as well?
  - wmf 6y ago
    I think the distinction is not Google vs. others but preinstalled (can do everything) vs. sideloaded (e.g. Epic/Amazon, can't do background install/update).
    - izacus 6y ago
      Exactly - the store needs to be a privileged app. Unfortunately that will be fixed only in next iteration of Android :/
      - jokowueu 6y ago
        Next iteration ?! Do you have any sources . Thank you

BuildTheRobots 6y ago

> The core of the issue (why it gets removed) has been that GPSLogger supports a lot of older devices and frameworks, whereas the Play Store is always trying to get everyone onto the latest versions. The enforced obsolescence is infuriating. Whilst you can argue the security implications of older devices, an offline task like being thrown in the top of a backpack recording a gps trace is a great use of old hardware. Google making it difficult for devs going out of their way to support this is upsetting.

anuila 6y ago
Why not just use an older version if you have an older device? Supporting years of ever-changing APIs is evidently painful. As a macOS user I’m kinda used to seeing “latest version for macOS 123 is a.b.c”
- tetris11 6y ago
  Because hardware shouldn't be considered dead if it can easily support new software, and the only hindrance is the profit model of marketplace in which it is distributed
  - anuila 6y ago
    > if it can easily support new software Judging by the author’s comment, it's not easy, that's the whole point.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      The hardware is capable of easily supporting the new software, but only if it gets OS updates. The problem isn't the hardware, it's the manufacturers.
- Firerouge 6y ago
  It can be difficult to find older versions of apps from reputable sources, and often as difficult to know what OS version/architectures/screen sizes an old app will work with, at least on Android.

wmf 6y ago

The core of the issue ... has been that GPSLogger supports a lot of older devices and frameworks ... a majority of GPSLogger users are on older devices. This has led to a lot of complexity in the codebase and inevitably (and expectedly) made it difficult to support and maintain while keeping up with the latest Play Store requirements and user feature requests and PRs and issues, and giving them the attention they deserve. I think the author is being too hard on himself. Investing massive effort to maintain a free app for people who don't invest anything themselves is not a personal failure.

winter_blue 6y ago
Yup, if he charged a monthly subscription for it, things would be a lot more equitable.
- tetris11 6y ago
  Maybe, but the GPL license is suggestive that the author started and continued to work on this project because it was seen as a genuine benefit to others, and for many years that was enough to keep them going. Sure financial incentive would have greased the wheels, but it might have undermined the spirit of the project in the first place
  - unishark 6y ago
    People generally pay for products in order to get a benefit. It's still genuine. The difference is the seller gets to share some of the benefit.
    - theamk 6y ago
      The human mind is funny this way: sometimes getting small amounts of money is worse than not getting money at all. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect
- mehrdadn 6y ago

FpUser 6y ago

I guess I am spoiled by the Windows and Linux on PC and embedded on microcontrollers where as a developer I do what I want how I want. I did entertain the idea of porting some of my products to mobile but after reading their terms and conditions I decided not to get involved in those platforms. Way too much control over what I do. Waiting for either Linux becoming mainstream on mobile (likely never happens but who knows) and lately some stuff using browser as a platform becomes viable as well.

rbecker 6y ago
> I did entertain the idea of porting some of my products to mobile but after reading their terms and conditions I decided not to get involved Could you elaborate? Which mobile platforms demanded what sorts of conditions?
- FpUser 6y ago
  I'll give you one example. They are in control of your very application existence on their platform. I can't have that. Other then that there are tons of things you can not do / discouraged from doing. You are free to read up on their relevant documentation. If you do develop on mobile you probably already know all of it way better than I do.
  - rbecker 6y ago
    > If you do develop on mobile you probably already know all of it way better than I do. I don't, that's why I ask. And are these conditions only for being placed in Apple's/Google's app stores? > You are free to read up on their relevant documentation. I imagine there's a lot of it - I was hoping you'd spare me the effort.
vbezhenar 6y ago
You can develop what you want and distribute your application outside of Google Play Store.
- 6y ago

lazyjeff 6y ago

Surprised to see GPSLogger here on Hacker News. I've been using it for 8 years now, basically ever since it's been possible to track location on a phone all day without recharging. This app is a gem. Besides Google Location History / Google Timeline, GPSLogger is pretty much the only way to have records of your location. I've used it for research (we mention it in an academic paper on location-based memories), for my own records to see where I've been (like "how many times have I been to this area before"), and statistical analysis of my everyday habits. If you want long-term location history, GPSLogger is probably the only way to do this. The alternate, Google Location History, has only been really reliable for the past few years, whereas there was a long period when GPSLogger beat it hands down in terms of accuracy because it would do GPS with cell tower fallback, which is probably the best setup in terms of battery-accuracy tradeoff. The author implemented this in 2013 (it was an issue I filed [0]), and combined with the configurability of when it should try to get your coordinates, you can get long/lat records for almost no battery. If you want to own your own data, and export data automatically, GPSLogger is also the only way since Google doesn't let you automate data export as far as I know (plus if they did, you'd have to rewrite that code every year). My instance of this app has run in the background, syncing data hourly for months without needing a restart. GPSLogger is one of the reasons I stick with Android. I'll keep using it even if I have to sideload the APK. It's really sad that the author has had to go through all this stress. But it's also worth noting there isn't a way to collect location records on iPhone at all, or sideload an app (ipa/apk), so Android is still the more open of the two platforms. The buffet of apps that used to do this type of location tracking (Moves, Gyroscope, Foursquare, and a bunch of indie apps) are basically all gone or pivoted away. I'm disappointed that there's such a mindset here that apps should have subscriptions / revenue to be worth maintaining. Freeware and "indie" open source supports the long tail of usage. The popular apps can only get to 80% of the use cases out there. This also shows the inadvertent double-edged sword of privacy/security of indie apps, as they often use more hack-ey techniques which are the first to get blocked out. The most private/secure app is one that does nothing more than a website. [0] https://github.com/mendhak/gpslogger/issues/184 https://github.com/mendhak/gpslogger/issues/184

nicbou 6y ago
Check out OwnTracks. It's a different approach, but it's also really nice. I use it as a poor man's GPS beacon on my motorcycle trips.

Jyaif 6y ago

In the playstore you can support old devices by keeping the old apks available (http://developer.android.com/google/play/publishing/multiple-apks.html#Rules http://developer.android.com/google/play/publishing/multiple...). This would work very well for GPSLogger.

BMSmnqXAE4yfe1 6y ago

Maybe it was removed because it falls under "spying tools" category? If it's your own phone, you can easily track your movements via Google location history, but this one can be installed on your spouse's phone and will silently email you their locations at all times.