4 ms·

That it drives huge engagement is an indictment of public education.

by gralx 6y ago

dicomdan 6y ago
There's a lot of educated people who are nevertheless highly partisan. Social networks pray on the deeply rooted instincts that are hard to suppress.
prostoalex 6y ago
The primary driver seems to be a psychological need to feel unique, unlike "the sheep" out there https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/why-the-pandemic-is-turning-so-many-people-into-conspiracy-theorists https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/why-the-pandemic-is-tu...
- pbalau 6y ago
  This is only half of it. Everyone is copying what the unique people are doing because they think this is the way to be unique.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I think your view of what misinformation looks like is a bit outdated. It's not just dumb chainmails anymore. One claim I saw passed around recently, for example, was that this particular video on the White House lawn was greenscreened. The people I saw discussing it were saying things like "you can tell cause of how pixelated the background is" or "look, the trees are on a 10 second loop!". I don't know what we could put in the public education curriculum to stop people from falling for this kind of thing.
- gralx 6y ago
  Healthy skepticism is not only easy to teach but easy to drill, and yet I remember no time in my early education that it was even a topic in class, except maybe tangentially - a short story theme, a blurb about a famous scientist or inventor. I doubt that has changed.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    In California at least, skeptical analysis is in the curriculum from sixth grade onwards. I was under the impression it was there in all states, although I could be mistaken.
    - gralx 6y ago
      Now that's interesting. There's a delay between when a curriculum stream is adopted and when its students start participating in civic affairs. My understanding (unconfirmed) is that participation in Twitter and Facebook is dominated by older age groups who may not have learned that material. How long since this curriculum was adopted state-wide in California? And what's it officially called? I couldn't find any information about it when I searched for "skeptical analysis" on the California Dept of Education website.
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        It's officially called "expository critique" in the oldest document I'm familiar with (https://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/elacontentstnds.pdf https://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/elacontentstnds.pd...), but I don't know if it was there before 1997 or not. More recent standards e.g. (https://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/finalelaccssstandards.pdf https://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/finalelaccssstanda...) don't appear to use a specific term for it, but they still include things like "Delineate and evaluate the argument and specific claims in a text" and "identify false statements and fallacious reasoning".
  - tatersolid 6y ago
    My high school in Indiana in the 1990s taught skepticism; there were two required classes called “citizen’s government” and “social criticism”. We watched Dr. Strangelove in Social Crit and had a two-hour discussion following. It was awesome.
ben_w 6y ago
"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." Engagement only measures engagement. I find Star Trek engaging, but one thing it isn’t is educational.
kfarr 6y ago
Yes, on the other hand a lot of misinformation tactics hook into built-in human tendencies and requires more than just general education to identify and be immune.
- gralx 6y ago
  It requires at least education into those tendencies and introspective drills to overcome them. For kids, drills would mean roleplaying with lying games, comparison shopping, that kind of thing. We've understood those tendencies much better since Edward Bernays, but I do not know of any young-adult curriculum that teaches them. It would be good for everybody.
SQueeeeeL 6y ago
If this were true, what would it affect about the argument?
- gralx 6y ago
  We'd be taxing Twitter and Facebook to make up for everybody's failure in public education, which seems unfair.

That it drives huge engagement is an indictment of public education.

by gralx 6y ago

That it drives huge engagement is an indictment of public education.

There's a lot of educated people who are nevertheless highly partisan. Social networks pray on the deeply rooted instincts that are hard to suppress.

prostoalex 6y ago

The primary driver seems to be a psychological need to feel unique, unlike "the sheep" out there https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/why-the-pandemic-is-turning-so-many-people-into-conspiracy-theorists https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/why-the-pandemic-is-tu...

pbalau 6y ago
This is only half of it. Everyone is copying what the unique people are doing because they think this is the way to be unique.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

I think your view of what misinformation looks like is a bit outdated. It's not just dumb chainmails anymore. One claim I saw passed around recently, for example, was that this particular video on the White House lawn was greenscreened. The people I saw discussing it were saying things like "you can tell cause of how pixelated the background is" or "look, the trees are on a 10 second loop!". I don't know what we could put in the public education curriculum to stop people from falling for this kind of thing.

gralx 6y ago
Healthy skepticism is not only easy to teach but easy to drill, and yet I remember no time in my early education that it was even a topic in class, except maybe tangentially - a short story theme, a blurb about a famous scientist or inventor. I doubt that has changed.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  In California at least, skeptical analysis is in the curriculum from sixth grade onwards. I was under the impression it was there in all states, although I could be mistaken.
  - gralx 6y ago
    Now that's interesting. There's a delay between when a curriculum stream is adopted and when its students start participating in civic affairs. My understanding (unconfirmed) is that participation in Twitter and Facebook is dominated by older age groups who may not have learned that material. How long since this curriculum was adopted state-wide in California? And what's it officially called? I couldn't find any information about it when I searched for "skeptical analysis" on the California Dept of Education website.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      It's officially called "expository critique" in the oldest document I'm familiar with (https://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/elacontentstnds.pdf https://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/elacontentstnds.pd...), but I don't know if it was there before 1997 or not. More recent standards e.g. (https://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/finalelaccssstandards.pdf https://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/finalelaccssstanda...) don't appear to use a specific term for it, but they still include things like "Delineate and evaluate the argument and specific claims in a text" and "identify false statements and fallacious reasoning".
- tatersolid 6y ago
  My high school in Indiana in the 1990s taught skepticism; there were two required classes called “citizen’s government” and “social criticism”. We watched Dr. Strangelove in Social Crit and had a two-hour discussion following. It was awesome.

ben_w 6y ago

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." Engagement only measures engagement. I find Star Trek engaging, but one thing it isn’t is educational.

kfarr 6y ago

Yes, on the other hand a lot of misinformation tactics hook into built-in human tendencies and requires more than just general education to identify and be immune.

gralx 6y ago
It requires at least education into those tendencies and introspective drills to overcome them. For kids, drills would mean roleplaying with lying games, comparison shopping, that kind of thing. We've understood those tendencies much better since Edward Bernays, but I do not know of any young-adult curriculum that teaches them. It would be good for everybody.

SQueeeeeL 6y ago

If this were true, what would it affect about the argument?

gralx 6y ago
We'd be taxing Twitter and Facebook to make up for everybody's failure in public education, which seems unfair.