4 ms·

It is interesting and slightly horrifying how Puritanism continues to echo throughout American culture, ostensibly by people who claim to be non-religious. Tha

It is interesting and slightly horrifying how Puritanism continues to echo throughout American culture, ostensibly by people who claim to be non-religious. Thankfully augmented reality hasn’t quite taken off yet. Can you imagine being branded “undesirable” by an unaccountable tech giant, then having facial recognition tech display this mark of witchcraft everywhere you go?

konjin 6y ago
I figure that the businesses accused of racism would try extra hard to be nice so visiting them exclusively would be a net positive. Much how working for woke companies usually leads to a 20% drop in salary because you're getting paid in good feelings.
- geofft 6y ago
  > Much how working for woke companies usually leads to a 20% drop in salary because you're getting paid in good feelings. Can you provide an example? Usually I see the label "woke companies" applied to places like Google and Stripe and Netflix which are also known for their particularly high salaries.
  - konjin 6y ago
    Having worked for Exxon and Raytheon the salary premium for the same position was substantial compared to Google and Facebook, to the point I was getting paid one level above what I would have otherwise. F&G make up a lot of the compensation in stocks so total comp looks great. The benefits in Exxon (and Raytheon) were insane, car, house and international schooling were paid and I ended up in hospital for unrelated reasons and paid $0 on a >$500k bill.
    - sigmaprimus 6y ago
      If that is true, how much better would the salary and perks be for working for a systematically racist corporation?
      - konjin 6y ago
        It's difficult getting employment in China as non-Han so I'm not sure.
  - est31 6y ago
    I think Facebook and Palantir have to increase compensation to get the same level of talent. The person you replied to formulated it in the inverse way. Also yes, in general if you work in a nonprofit for a charitable cause you'll likely make way less money. Google et al are certainly not nonprofits, but they aren't in the "evil" businesses of defense/mass population manipulation either, at least not to the degree that Facebook and Palantir are. They are somewhere in between.
calvano915 6y ago
Isn't this the free market in action? Pretty sure if this is unpopular it will just further degrade Yelp's already not very stellar reputation.
- konjin 6y ago
  The free market stops working when a mob with pitchforks shows up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnTTND0UcM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnTTND0UcM This is what people consider a reasonable way to show you're not racist.
jszymborski 6y ago
It's strange to me how holding secular enlightenment values like the natural equality of all people is considered "puritanical" or "horrific". People want to support businesses that help create the society they expect. You can criticize, pointedly even, the way that Yelp proposes to enforce this policy; especially in light of their controversial business practices. But let's not put a blanket condemnation of acknowledging when businesses promote racism, or the desire to patronize other institutions.
- manigandham 6y ago
  "natural equality of all people" The vast majority of people everywhere agree with this. It's not exactly enlightenment values anymore. The issue is with people who think that they're morally superior for holding this view while they label everyone else with extremes.
  - bigbubba 6y ago
    Can we then look forward to Yelp serving up 'this business is accused of being run by a white person' warnings?
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  That isn’t the problem. The problem is relying on biased, unaccountable, dubious information for making such accusations...just like the Salem witch trials, the McCarthy anti-communist trials, etc. New social situation, same puritanical story. This is doubly a problem when words like racist have recently been redefined in ways that are impossible for the average person to keep up with.
  - jszymborski 6y ago
    > You can criticize, pointedly even, the way that Yelp proposes to enforce this policy; especially in light of their controversial business practices. Like I said, criticize how they implement it. But I think it's evident how disingenuous your comparisons are by the examples you've chosen. Witchcraft, communism... neither are provable actions you can "commit". They are thought crimes. Racism is something you commit against a people or persons, is provably true.
estebank 6y ago
How is this different in intent, effect or result to the Green Book[1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Motorist_Green_Book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Motorist_Green_Book
- sigmaprimus 6y ago
  Im assuming you are asking an honest question so I'll try my best to answer. The difference in intent, effect and or result is: The Greenbook was created to provide information on businesses that were not racist, decent people that offered services to minorities. In essence it promoted certain buisnesses to people which helped them, what yelp is doing is placing alerts on buisnesses that you should not visit thus hurting them. The Smithsonian has a digital copy of the book here: https://transcription.si.edu/project/7955 https://transcription.si.edu/project/7955 Hope that answered your question
  - sigmaprimus 6y ago
    * Edit * After contemplating your question overnight, I believe that Yelp's "INTENT" may be nothing more than a kind of virtue signalling, in order to drive attention to their web site. I would imagine that during this time of restaurants and service business shutdowns, they are having a hard time too. So why not stir things up, with some race baiting, heck maybe Fox news will give them a mention!! So yes it is quite a bit different than the Green Books' creators intent.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  People denying others service by skin color was the motivation for that. This time it is to deflect from criticism against Yelp itself and maybe even increase their extortion efforts towards businesses.

konjin 6y ago

I figure that the businesses accused of racism would try extra hard to be nice so visiting them exclusively would be a net positive. Much how working for woke companies usually leads to a 20% drop in salary because you're getting paid in good feelings.

geofft 6y ago
> Much how working for woke companies usually leads to a 20% drop in salary because you're getting paid in good feelings. Can you provide an example? Usually I see the label "woke companies" applied to places like Google and Stripe and Netflix which are also known for their particularly high salaries.
- konjin 6y ago
  Having worked for Exxon and Raytheon the salary premium for the same position was substantial compared to Google and Facebook, to the point I was getting paid one level above what I would have otherwise. F&G make up a lot of the compensation in stocks so total comp looks great. The benefits in Exxon (and Raytheon) were insane, car, house and international schooling were paid and I ended up in hospital for unrelated reasons and paid $0 on a >$500k bill.
  - sigmaprimus 6y ago
    If that is true, how much better would the salary and perks be for working for a systematically racist corporation?
    - konjin 6y ago
      It's difficult getting employment in China as non-Han so I'm not sure.
- est31 6y ago
  I think Facebook and Palantir have to increase compensation to get the same level of talent. The person you replied to formulated it in the inverse way. Also yes, in general if you work in a nonprofit for a charitable cause you'll likely make way less money. Google et al are certainly not nonprofits, but they aren't in the "evil" businesses of defense/mass population manipulation either, at least not to the degree that Facebook and Palantir are. They are somewhere in between.

calvano915 6y ago

Isn't this the free market in action? Pretty sure if this is unpopular it will just further degrade Yelp's already not very stellar reputation.

konjin 6y ago
The free market stops working when a mob with pitchforks shows up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnTTND0UcM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnTTND0UcM This is what people consider a reasonable way to show you're not racist.

jszymborski 6y ago

It's strange to me how holding secular enlightenment values like the natural equality of all people is considered "puritanical" or "horrific". People want to support businesses that help create the society they expect. You can criticize, pointedly even, the way that Yelp proposes to enforce this policy; especially in light of their controversial business practices. But let's not put a blanket condemnation of acknowledging when businesses promote racism, or the desire to patronize other institutions.

manigandham 6y ago
"natural equality of all people" The vast majority of people everywhere agree with this. It's not exactly enlightenment values anymore. The issue is with people who think that they're morally superior for holding this view while they label everyone else with extremes.
- bigbubba 6y ago
  Can we then look forward to Yelp serving up 'this business is accused of being run by a white person' warnings?
ceilingcorner 6y ago
That isn’t the problem. The problem is relying on biased, unaccountable, dubious information for making such accusations...just like the Salem witch trials, the McCarthy anti-communist trials, etc. New social situation, same puritanical story. This is doubly a problem when words like racist have recently been redefined in ways that are impossible for the average person to keep up with.
- jszymborski 6y ago
  > You can criticize, pointedly even, the way that Yelp proposes to enforce this policy; especially in light of their controversial business practices. Like I said, criticize how they implement it. But I think it's evident how disingenuous your comparisons are by the examples you've chosen. Witchcraft, communism... neither are provable actions you can "commit". They are thought crimes. Racism is something you commit against a people or persons, is provably true.

estebank 6y ago

How is this different in intent, effect or result to the Green Book[1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Motorist_Green_Book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Motorist_Green_Book

sigmaprimus 6y ago
Im assuming you are asking an honest question so I'll try my best to answer. The difference in intent, effect and or result is: The Greenbook was created to provide information on businesses that were not racist, decent people that offered services to minorities. In essence it promoted certain buisnesses to people which helped them, what yelp is doing is placing alerts on buisnesses that you should not visit thus hurting them. The Smithsonian has a digital copy of the book here: https://transcription.si.edu/project/7955 https://transcription.si.edu/project/7955 Hope that answered your question
- sigmaprimus 6y ago
  * Edit * After contemplating your question overnight, I believe that Yelp's "INTENT" may be nothing more than a kind of virtue signalling, in order to drive attention to their web site. I would imagine that during this time of restaurants and service business shutdowns, they are having a hard time too. So why not stir things up, with some race baiting, heck maybe Fox news will give them a mention!! So yes it is quite a bit different than the Green Books' creators intent.
raxxorrax 6y ago
People denying others service by skin color was the motivation for that. This time it is to deflect from criticism against Yelp itself and maybe even increase their extortion efforts towards businesses.