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"Apolitical" is the default. It's another way of saying, "The way things are is fine". The problem is that this is, in itself, a political stance. An example

"Apolitical" is the default. It's another way of saying, "The way things are is fine". The problem is that this is, in itself, a political stance. An example could be climate change. If Coinbase is doing nothing to make energy more green (even if that's just writing amicus briefs or blog posts), then they are effectively saying, "The way things are is fine."

Miraste 6y ago
Companies aren't, and shouldn't be, superPACs. Getting Coinbase to use green energy is the job of government regulations and incentives, not political crusades from Coinbase's management. If the government isn't doing this, it's a problem to solve with different policy makers, not by trying to force all companies to have party platforms.
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
No, they are effectively saying "Those issues are outside the scope of the purpose of our organization". That's not the same thing.
sequoia 6y ago
> "Apolitical" is ... another way of saying, "The way things are is fine". I disagree strongly & think you're dead wrong here. Apolitical in the workplace is saying "we come to work to align on & collaborate in working towards shared goals and those goals are what we should be focused on at work. People who share this goal (coinbase, make money, promote crypto whatever) may vote R, D, or not vote at all. We can all still work together on our shared goal." It means people with different views can work together on stuff they do agree on rather than "I can't work with anyone who doesn't vote the same as me" which is what social-justice-in-the-workplace seems to lead to, for better or worse. It is NOT an endorsement of the status quo, it's a recognition that you and I might both oppose the status quo for completely different reasons that have nothing to do with work.
- thundergolfer 6y ago
  The work you do together is political. It of course isn’t necessarily directly engaged with USA national politics, but it’s directly engaged in politics. Politics is a very broad and encompassing concept. It isn’t synonymous with some nation’s representative political system.
  - gpm 6y ago
    Right, so we can say "we both think that better backup software primarily targeting the enterprise and government market is good for society" (and as you say that is a statement with political ramifications) and still disagree on just about everything else. For instance we don't have to agree on whether or not abortion should be legal, the president should be impeached, taxes should be raised on rich people, or how gun control should be implemented (if at all).
    - thundergolfer 6y ago
      Yes, you can do that. That's how things work in a pluralistic society. The only point being made though is that that "we" it not acting 'outside of politics' or 'avoiding politics' or being apolitical. When I go to work I focus on things to the exclusion of other things. That's fine, but we shouldn't think that on entering the office of my employer corporation I am somehow exiting the political realm. That would be engaging in a blindness to the politics of my employer's business practices, and the politics of my office workplace.
      - totony 6y ago
        Wouldn't your compensation imply that the employer is paying you for your time and expertise so that you further their business? If you disagree with what they're trying to do and management disagrees, then shouldn't you just quit? I'm not sure what politicization of the workplace is intended to lead to. At some point people have to put their differences aside to work on a shared goal. If you disagree with the shared goal then why join in the first place?
        6y ago
eli 6y ago
There's nothing apolitical about forbidding employees from talking about certain sensitive topics at work, especially where what's "sensitive" is a subjective decision by management.
BurningFrog 6y ago
Being apolitical in the workplace is a way of making it possible to work together for a common goal with people who are very different than you and have very different opinions. You can still be very politically active on your own time.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  You've misunderstood. Not all politics belong in work, but all work is political. You cannot escape politics in work, because every workplace is making decisions about benefits, wages, their use of energy, who they hire, who they donate to, how accessible their products are, etc. All of which have a political component. An aluminum smelter, for instance, uses lots of electricity. How they choose to source that electricity is absolutely a politically linked decision.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
You, I, and Coinbase are all doing nothing to promote Joe Danna's campaign for sheriff of Harris County, Texas. Does that mean that we're effectively endorsing the status quo and the incumbent Ed Gonzalez? Or does it just mean that the Harris County sheriff's office has nothing to do with us?
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  You've made a strawman. I didn't say that all politics must exist in the workplace. Work is inherently political. There's no escaping that your workplace is making decisions about wages, benefits, access to their products, how they spend their donation dollars, if they support candidates, who they employ, etc. etc. etc. All of these are political decisions that (I believe) are inescapable and also that workers should have input into. A web design shop could be a co-op or it could be a standard llc with a founder on top. It might make price services to be accessible to everyone or exclusively focus on enterprise software. They might donate to a local politician. Or rent in a particular area of town. Or purchase carbon offsets for their energy use. Etc. etc. All of these are inherently political decisions. There's no such thing as an Apolitical workplace.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I wouldn't deny, and Coinbase didn't deny, that employees should be able to discuss decisions about wages, benefits, products, employment, etc. If you'd like to use the word "political" to refer to anything that affects society in any way, by all means go ahead, but you have to recognize that other people who say they're "apolitical" aren't using your definition. They just mean that they're not engaging in arguments like "we've gotta elect suchandsuch candidate!" or "we've gotta embrace suchandsuch slogan!"
hnracer 6y ago
Having an apolitical workplace is not the same as that workplace saying that all things are fine. It just means that you keep discussion of political topics that are orthogonal to the mission of the company out of the workplace. A company is optimized around its mission and the usual hot button political issues can only serve to be a distraction that saps productivity and effectiveness.
christophilus 6y ago
Nope. It means: I came here to program, not to listen to you drone on and on about why Trump is the greatest candidate ever. (I quit a job partly because of someone doing this constantly.) I also quit a subsequent job because of a leftist guy who was simply unbearable. I get paid to write software. When I go to work, that’s what I want to do. If you want to annoy me with unrelated trivia, work is not the place.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying all politics belong at work, but that all work involves politics. I, likewise, am not interested in discussing presidential candidates with my coworkers. But every employer makes decisions about wages, benefits, donations, access to their products and services, energy consumption, their local communities, support of political candidates, etc. No workplace is an island, and if a workplace is going to engage in those things, I want to be able to discuss how my particular workplace interacts with them. (E.g. if I worked in a factory, maybe I'd want to talk about how the factory sourced energy.)
jariel 6y ago
So no, this is definitely not true within this context. You have life outside of work where you can be political. I believe it's the job of companies to be 'good citizens' and only to be active politically if it's either really part of the mission statement - or - unavoidable, perhaps in the case of NFL, they had a huge communications issue. Beyond that, protest at your hearts content, just not at the office. Finally - you can make a political choice in your work if you want merely by choosing disciplines/companies. If you really want to 'push green' then getting into that industry might be a good personal choice.
bhupy 6y ago
Just because I don’t bring up politics with my barber, doesn’t mean that either of us don’t care about political issues. The proposal here is to compartmentalize. If I don’t know someone’s political stance, my default isn’t to assume that they think “things are fine”, my default is to assume that they have some set of beliefs that are irrelevant to that particular interaction with them.
creato 6y ago
> An example could be climate change. If Coinbase is doing nothing to make energy more green (even if that's just writing amicus briefs or blog posts), then they are effectively saying, "The way things are is fine." You think every single company that isn't writing amicus briefs or blog posts about climate change is taking a political stance against fighting climate change?
- CameronNemo 6y ago
  No, but coinbase is a company that thrives on carbon intensive technology. If they are not doing what they can to shift the scales of cryptocurrency toward more sustainable proofs, while at the same time promoting cryptocurrency, they are accelerating carbon pollution.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    Exactly. This is why I specifically choose climate change for coinbase.
buildstatements 6y ago
The problem with this view is that it is hopelessly uncomprehensive. When you start on the politics stuff, where do you stop? Should Coinbase have a political opinion on native rights in South Australia? What about the status and social standing of Burakumin in Japan? What about the Indigenous goups in Taiwan: the Ami, Atayal, Paiwan, Bunun, Puyuma, Rukai, Tsou, Saisiyat, Tao (Yami), Thao, Kavalan, Taroko (also Truku), and Sakizaya? I think Coinbase should have said "we are a deeply political company concentrated on a single issue to the exclusion of all else. If you want to work where there is more than a single political focus, we are not a good fit". You can't optimise in all directions, and being clear about what is in scope and out of scope is vital, not just in tech but in life.
jiuahweruihawi 6y ago
My company has never made any public statement that they oppose murder and rape. Does this mean that they support the continued existence of murder and rape?

Miraste 6y ago

Companies aren't, and shouldn't be, superPACs. Getting Coinbase to use green energy is the job of government regulations and incentives, not political crusades from Coinbase's management. If the government isn't doing this, it's a problem to solve with different policy makers, not by trying to force all companies to have party platforms.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

No, they are effectively saying "Those issues are outside the scope of the purpose of our organization". That's not the same thing.

sequoia 6y ago

> "Apolitical" is ... another way of saying, "The way things are is fine". I disagree strongly & think you're dead wrong here. Apolitical in the workplace is saying "we come to work to align on & collaborate in working towards shared goals and those goals are what we should be focused on at work. People who share this goal (coinbase, make money, promote crypto whatever) may vote R, D, or not vote at all. We can all still work together on our shared goal." It means people with different views can work together on stuff they do agree on rather than "I can't work with anyone who doesn't vote the same as me" which is what social-justice-in-the-workplace seems to lead to, for better or worse. It is NOT an endorsement of the status quo, it's a recognition that you and I might both oppose the status quo for completely different reasons that have nothing to do with work.

thundergolfer 6y ago
The work you do together is political. It of course isn’t necessarily directly engaged with USA national politics, but it’s directly engaged in politics. Politics is a very broad and encompassing concept. It isn’t synonymous with some nation’s representative political system.
- gpm 6y ago
  Right, so we can say "we both think that better backup software primarily targeting the enterprise and government market is good for society" (and as you say that is a statement with political ramifications) and still disagree on just about everything else. For instance we don't have to agree on whether or not abortion should be legal, the president should be impeached, taxes should be raised on rich people, or how gun control should be implemented (if at all).
  - thundergolfer 6y ago
    Yes, you can do that. That's how things work in a pluralistic society. The only point being made though is that that "we" it not acting 'outside of politics' or 'avoiding politics' or being apolitical. When I go to work I focus on things to the exclusion of other things. That's fine, but we shouldn't think that on entering the office of my employer corporation I am somehow exiting the political realm. That would be engaging in a blindness to the politics of my employer's business practices, and the politics of my office workplace.
    - totony 6y ago
      Wouldn't your compensation imply that the employer is paying you for your time and expertise so that you further their business? If you disagree with what they're trying to do and management disagrees, then shouldn't you just quit? I'm not sure what politicization of the workplace is intended to lead to. At some point people have to put their differences aside to work on a shared goal. If you disagree with the shared goal then why join in the first place?
      - 6y ago

eli 6y ago

There's nothing apolitical about forbidding employees from talking about certain sensitive topics at work, especially where what's "sensitive" is a subjective decision by management.

BurningFrog 6y ago

Being apolitical in the workplace is a way of making it possible to work together for a common goal with people who are very different than you and have very different opinions. You can still be very politically active on your own time.

Pfhreak 6y ago
You've misunderstood. Not all politics belong in work, but all work is political. You cannot escape politics in work, because every workplace is making decisions about benefits, wages, their use of energy, who they hire, who they donate to, how accessible their products are, etc. All of which have a political component. An aluminum smelter, for instance, uses lots of electricity. How they choose to source that electricity is absolutely a politically linked decision.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

You, I, and Coinbase are all doing nothing to promote Joe Danna's campaign for sheriff of Harris County, Texas. Does that mean that we're effectively endorsing the status quo and the incumbent Ed Gonzalez? Or does it just mean that the Harris County sheriff's office has nothing to do with us?

Pfhreak 6y ago
You've made a strawman. I didn't say that all politics must exist in the workplace. Work is inherently political. There's no escaping that your workplace is making decisions about wages, benefits, access to their products, how they spend their donation dollars, if they support candidates, who they employ, etc. etc. etc. All of these are political decisions that (I believe) are inescapable and also that workers should have input into. A web design shop could be a co-op or it could be a standard llc with a founder on top. It might make price services to be accessible to everyone or exclusively focus on enterprise software. They might donate to a local politician. Or rent in a particular area of town. Or purchase carbon offsets for their energy use. Etc. etc. All of these are inherently political decisions. There's no such thing as an Apolitical workplace.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I wouldn't deny, and Coinbase didn't deny, that employees should be able to discuss decisions about wages, benefits, products, employment, etc. If you'd like to use the word "political" to refer to anything that affects society in any way, by all means go ahead, but you have to recognize that other people who say they're "apolitical" aren't using your definition. They just mean that they're not engaging in arguments like "we've gotta elect suchandsuch candidate!" or "we've gotta embrace suchandsuch slogan!"

hnracer 6y ago

Having an apolitical workplace is not the same as that workplace saying that all things are fine. It just means that you keep discussion of political topics that are orthogonal to the mission of the company out of the workplace. A company is optimized around its mission and the usual hot button political issues can only serve to be a distraction that saps productivity and effectiveness.

christophilus 6y ago

Nope. It means: I came here to program, not to listen to you drone on and on about why Trump is the greatest candidate ever. (I quit a job partly because of someone doing this constantly.) I also quit a subsequent job because of a leftist guy who was simply unbearable. I get paid to write software. When I go to work, that’s what I want to do. If you want to annoy me with unrelated trivia, work is not the place.

Pfhreak 6y ago
I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying all politics belong at work, but that all work involves politics. I, likewise, am not interested in discussing presidential candidates with my coworkers. But every employer makes decisions about wages, benefits, donations, access to their products and services, energy consumption, their local communities, support of political candidates, etc. No workplace is an island, and if a workplace is going to engage in those things, I want to be able to discuss how my particular workplace interacts with them. (E.g. if I worked in a factory, maybe I'd want to talk about how the factory sourced energy.)

jariel 6y ago

So no, this is definitely not true within this context. You have life outside of work where you can be political. I believe it's the job of companies to be 'good citizens' and only to be active politically if it's either really part of the mission statement - or - unavoidable, perhaps in the case of NFL, they had a huge communications issue. Beyond that, protest at your hearts content, just not at the office. Finally - you can make a political choice in your work if you want merely by choosing disciplines/companies. If you really want to 'push green' then getting into that industry might be a good personal choice.

bhupy 6y ago

Just because I don’t bring up politics with my barber, doesn’t mean that either of us don’t care about political issues. The proposal here is to compartmentalize. If I don’t know someone’s political stance, my default isn’t to assume that they think “things are fine”, my default is to assume that they have some set of beliefs that are irrelevant to that particular interaction with them.

creato 6y ago

> An example could be climate change. If Coinbase is doing nothing to make energy more green (even if that's just writing amicus briefs or blog posts), then they are effectively saying, "The way things are is fine." You think every single company that isn't writing amicus briefs or blog posts about climate change is taking a political stance against fighting climate change?

CameronNemo 6y ago
No, but coinbase is a company that thrives on carbon intensive technology. If they are not doing what they can to shift the scales of cryptocurrency toward more sustainable proofs, while at the same time promoting cryptocurrency, they are accelerating carbon pollution.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Exactly. This is why I specifically choose climate change for coinbase.

buildstatements 6y ago

The problem with this view is that it is hopelessly uncomprehensive. When you start on the politics stuff, where do you stop? Should Coinbase have a political opinion on native rights in South Australia? What about the status and social standing of Burakumin in Japan? What about the Indigenous goups in Taiwan: the Ami, Atayal, Paiwan, Bunun, Puyuma, Rukai, Tsou, Saisiyat, Tao (Yami), Thao, Kavalan, Taroko (also Truku), and Sakizaya? I think Coinbase should have said "we are a deeply political company concentrated on a single issue to the exclusion of all else. If you want to work where there is more than a single political focus, we are not a good fit". You can't optimise in all directions, and being clear about what is in scope and out of scope is vital, not just in tech but in life.

jiuahweruihawi 6y ago

My company has never made any public statement that they oppose murder and rape. Does this mean that they support the continued existence of murder and rape?