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That's quite a strawman. You're saying that those who disagree with tech unions are: - Autistic - Uneducated and naive ("real soon now," presumably said with

That's quite a strawman. You're saying that those who disagree with tech unions are: - Autistic - Uneducated and naive ("real soon now," presumably said with a folksy twang) - "Very young" - Too cowardly or ethically naive to object to bad working conditions Here's a more charitable possibility: Opponents may just not see the need at this point. Or they may dislike union culture. Unionizing isn't all positive. There are costs that go beyond union dues. You're establishing what in many ways is a more exclusive culture. And you may end up stifling innovation. That shouldn't be a tool to be used indiscriminately.

bsenftner 6y ago
I was "that guy" at EA during the "EA Spouse" era that tried unsuccessfully to get any union effort started at all. The strawman list above only needs one proponent per developer group and no one in that group joins the effort. I'd say the "ethically naive" trait is the strongest.
- PeterStuer 6y ago
  The gaming industry is most certainly rife with exploiting passion.
qsort 6y ago
> That's quite a strawman. It's quite a popular strawman, unfortunately. Tech workers are almost universally despised in leftist circles. (disclaimer: I work in tech, hold left-leaning views and I actually believe some form of unionization in tech would be beneficial)
- PeterStuer 6y ago
  I work in tech and most certainly do not despise tech workers. I don't see what political leaning would have to do with this issue. I am in favor of some form of collective bargaining, but at the same time aware of some of the potential abuses that sometimes come with that as well.
PeterStuer 6y ago
That is a bit of a 1-sided reading. Our industry does have an (on average) well compensated and younger workforce than many other, that are both passionate and entrepreneurial. Not being a native speaker I'm probably not sure which 'twang' I would sound like, but over the years I have met orders of magnitude more people in our line of work that had a side project that they were going to turn into a real business in the future, and that is a great thing, but sadly very few ever did. The autism spectrum reference isn't at all meant derogatory, but has been observed and documented and also seems intuitively not entirely unreasonable in an industry were we have entire divisions that are expected to be passionate about manipulating abstractions in a meticulously precise symbol system for most of their waking hours. To me it is normal that people that do not find themselves in a precarious position in terms of the the bottom rungs of Marlow's hierarchy of needs, and on top of that in a position that they see as transitory, will feel less compelled to organize. I'm not saying unionization is some nirvana, nor am I saying it is to be demonized. I don't see why 'stifling innovation' is dragged in as countries with more worker rights, often the result of collective bargaining, do not seem less innovative. And as observed before, collective bargaining for companies do not seem to be vilified by those same people.

bsenftner 6y ago

I was "that guy" at EA during the "EA Spouse" era that tried unsuccessfully to get any union effort started at all. The strawman list above only needs one proponent per developer group and no one in that group joins the effort. I'd say the "ethically naive" trait is the strongest.

PeterStuer 6y ago
The gaming industry is most certainly rife with exploiting passion.

qsort 6y ago

> That's quite a strawman. It's quite a popular strawman, unfortunately. Tech workers are almost universally despised in leftist circles. (disclaimer: I work in tech, hold left-leaning views and I actually believe some form of unionization in tech would be beneficial)

PeterStuer 6y ago
I work in tech and most certainly do not despise tech workers. I don't see what political leaning would have to do with this issue. I am in favor of some form of collective bargaining, but at the same time aware of some of the potential abuses that sometimes come with that as well.

PeterStuer 6y ago

That is a bit of a 1-sided reading. Our industry does have an (on average) well compensated and younger workforce than many other, that are both passionate and entrepreneurial. Not being a native speaker I'm probably not sure which 'twang' I would sound like, but over the years I have met orders of magnitude more people in our line of work that had a side project that they were going to turn into a real business in the future, and that is a great thing, but sadly very few ever did. The autism spectrum reference isn't at all meant derogatory, but has been observed and documented and also seems intuitively not entirely unreasonable in an industry were we have entire divisions that are expected to be passionate about manipulating abstractions in a meticulously precise symbol system for most of their waking hours. To me it is normal that people that do not find themselves in a precarious position in terms of the the bottom rungs of Marlow's hierarchy of needs, and on top of that in a position that they see as transitory, will feel less compelled to organize. I'm not saying unionization is some nirvana, nor am I saying it is to be demonized. I don't see why 'stifling innovation' is dragged in as countries with more worker rights, often the result of collective bargaining, do not seem less innovative. And as observed before, collective bargaining for companies do not seem to be vilified by those same people.