7 ms·

This is what you'll get with unions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5a_00YVVkQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5a_00YVVkQ&feature=you

This is what you'll get with unions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5a_00YVVkQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5a_00YVVkQ&feature=youtu.be... My experience with unions. Monitor breaks at CES. Go get another, try to carry to booth. Get stopped because "only union people are allowed to carry equipment inside the convention center". Try to plug in some equipment. Get stopped because "only union electricians are allowed to plug in equipment in the convention center" I know others who have add similar experiences in the aerospace industry where responsibilities were divided up and person A is not allowed do any work outside of their designated job. For example, your job is to write UX features, some else's job is to unit tests. You're not allowed to write unit tests. Why I would I want that?

telesilla 6y ago
Unions can also offer goods things like group bargaining, healthcare and moral support such as SAG/AFTRA and other Hollywood-style guilds. The only downside is you can't do cheap work on the side, but that benefits those who choose not to or cannot join these guilds.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
sebmellen 6y ago
That's a fantastic video. I'm commenting mostly to save the link for later, but I cannot imagine unions trying to mesh with the tech world. Can you imagine having a "frontend developers union" which disallowed backend work (or vice versa)? What a nightmare.
- pietrovismara 6y ago
  That's not how unions work at all and especially not the union described by OP's article. Can you imagine strongly opposing something that would benefit you, because you don't understand it nor take the time to?
  - sebmellen 6y ago
    I've only been exposed to unions through conferences, so I may not be completely informed, but this is the only way I know unions to work (also from my grandmother having been a teacher in NY, and strong union advocate).
skitout 6y ago
Sure there are some horror stories about unions, but you are just generalizing. And you are talking about "old" institutions ; new unions, for "new" kind of companies would not look the same. Having an organization that can help a worker that is abused, or giving more bargaining power to workers seems clearly positive for the worker. That could be a bit more irritating for the top management ... But the German example (strong unions, 50% of employee representation on the supervisory boards of large corporations) shows it tend to be, overall, positive for the companies.
- username90 6y ago
  People could organize a European style union for software engineers right now in USA if they wanted, but they aren't doing it. Instead they are still pushing for US style unions like they did at Kickstarter. The only reason I can think of why they are doing this is that they want the extra power that comes with US style unions instead of the more worker friendly EU style unions.
  - faitswulff 6y ago
    What is the primary difference between EU and US style unions?
    - 082349872349872 6y ago
      Board seats?
      - username90 6y ago
        That is only in Germany and not typical for EU.
        skitout 6y ago
        And Austria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Hungary, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Slovakia, Slovenia and Sweden (but with less seats than Germany) https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Across-Europe/Board-level-Representation2 https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Rela...
Quarrelsome 6y ago
You can implement anything crap. I feel like you're just taking the worst possible example of a union and using that to state that unionization is awful.
pjc50 6y ago
Marriot jammed wifi in their conference centers to make you pay for theirs. Therefore hotel chains are a bad idea. /s Yes, that kind of thing is a scam to make you pay more than you need to, a.k.a. "profit maximising" for the individual. But we seem to just accept that as natural for companies while shunning individuals that do it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
pietrovismara 6y ago
You seem to completely misunderstand what the union formed at Kickstarter is about. Nothing like what you describe, but rather giving employees more control over the company's decisions.
mcv 6y ago
You don't, so don't form a union that does that. Instead, form a union that does the things you and your coworkers need a union for. The idea that unions should run the business is silly. Unions need to negotiate a good salary and healthy working conditions.
gamblor956 6y ago
I'll raise you one. My experience with unions: - (Movie) set breaks. The guys from the appropriate union are working on a different part of the set and can't get away to fix it, so the camera guys (in a different union) fixes the break. They all have a beer afterwards, and the movie made $200M+ at the box office. - Unionized grocery store. Jar spills onto the floor. The janitor is doing the COVID19 sanitation rounds, so the first employee to see the mess grabs a mop and cleans it up, even though it's not part of her job description. Moral of the story: unions are what their members make of them. Some of them are deliberately and highly restrictive about scope of duties, but most of them are not.
crummel 6y ago
Aviation isn't about unions though, it's a safety feature. There were a bunch of different roles at the company I worked for: - High-level requirements author - Low-level requirements author - Coder - Test author - Test runner and then each of those had a reviewer, for high-level requirements, low-level requirements, code review, test case review, test process and results review. The FAA technically only requires that the author and reviewer for each step in the process are different, but the company tried to avoid having the same person write the requirements, code, and tests as well.
MrDresden 6y ago
I can not speak about how unions work in the US. I have however been in unions my whole working life, and know of none who is a saleried employee who is not in a union, and what you describe is not how my experience of unions in Europe has ever been (nor have I ever heard such stories). There are not, nor have there ever been any restrictions placed on how, where and when I can work due to unions. Any modifications triggered by how, when and where I was working are beneficial to me and soley the burden of my employeers. The way unions have been warped in the US, either in reality or in the minds of people, truly horrifies me. /edit: spelling

telesilla 6y ago

Unions can also offer goods things like group bargaining, healthcare and moral support such as SAG/AFTRA and other Hollywood-style guilds. The only downside is you can't do cheap work on the side, but that benefits those who choose not to or cannot join these guilds.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

sebmellen 6y ago

That's a fantastic video. I'm commenting mostly to save the link for later, but I cannot imagine unions trying to mesh with the tech world. Can you imagine having a "frontend developers union" which disallowed backend work (or vice versa)? What a nightmare.

pietrovismara 6y ago
That's not how unions work at all and especially not the union described by OP's article. Can you imagine strongly opposing something that would benefit you, because you don't understand it nor take the time to?
- sebmellen 6y ago
  I've only been exposed to unions through conferences, so I may not be completely informed, but this is the only way I know unions to work (also from my grandmother having been a teacher in NY, and strong union advocate).

skitout 6y ago

Sure there are some horror stories about unions, but you are just generalizing. And you are talking about "old" institutions ; new unions, for "new" kind of companies would not look the same. Having an organization that can help a worker that is abused, or giving more bargaining power to workers seems clearly positive for the worker. That could be a bit more irritating for the top management ... But the German example (strong unions, 50% of employee representation on the supervisory boards of large corporations) shows it tend to be, overall, positive for the companies.

username90 6y ago
People could organize a European style union for software engineers right now in USA if they wanted, but they aren't doing it. Instead they are still pushing for US style unions like they did at Kickstarter. The only reason I can think of why they are doing this is that they want the extra power that comes with US style unions instead of the more worker friendly EU style unions.
- faitswulff 6y ago
  What is the primary difference between EU and US style unions?
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    Board seats?
    - username90 6y ago
      That is only in Germany and not typical for EU.
      - skitout 6y ago
        And Austria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Hungary, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Slovakia, Slovenia and Sweden (but with less seats than Germany) https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Across-Europe/Board-level-Representation2 https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Rela...

Quarrelsome 6y ago

You can implement anything crap. I feel like you're just taking the worst possible example of a union and using that to state that unionization is awful.

pjc50 6y ago

Marriot jammed wifi in their conference centers to make you pay for theirs. Therefore hotel chains are a bad idea. /s Yes, that kind of thing is a scam to make you pay more than you need to, a.k.a. "profit maximising" for the individual. But we seem to just accept that as natural for companies while shunning individuals that do it.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

pietrovismara 6y ago

You seem to completely misunderstand what the union formed at Kickstarter is about. Nothing like what you describe, but rather giving employees more control over the company's decisions.

mcv 6y ago

You don't, so don't form a union that does that. Instead, form a union that does the things you and your coworkers need a union for. The idea that unions should run the business is silly. Unions need to negotiate a good salary and healthy working conditions.

gamblor956 6y ago

I'll raise you one. My experience with unions: - (Movie) set breaks. The guys from the appropriate union are working on a different part of the set and can't get away to fix it, so the camera guys (in a different union) fixes the break. They all have a beer afterwards, and the movie made $200M+ at the box office. - Unionized grocery store. Jar spills onto the floor. The janitor is doing the COVID19 sanitation rounds, so the first employee to see the mess grabs a mop and cleans it up, even though it's not part of her job description. Moral of the story: unions are what their members make of them. Some of them are deliberately and highly restrictive about scope of duties, but most of them are not.

crummel 6y ago

Aviation isn't about unions though, it's a safety feature. There were a bunch of different roles at the company I worked for: - High-level requirements author - Low-level requirements author - Coder - Test author - Test runner and then each of those had a reviewer, for high-level requirements, low-level requirements, code review, test case review, test process and results review. The FAA technically only requires that the author and reviewer for each step in the process are different, but the company tried to avoid having the same person write the requirements, code, and tests as well.

MrDresden 6y ago

I can not speak about how unions work in the US. I have however been in unions my whole working life, and know of none who is a saleried employee who is not in a union, and what you describe is not how my experience of unions in Europe has ever been (nor have I ever heard such stories). There are not, nor have there ever been any restrictions placed on how, where and when I can work due to unions. Any modifications triggered by how, when and where I was working are beneficial to me and soley the burden of my employeers. The way unions have been warped in the US, either in reality or in the minds of people, truly horrifies me. /edit: spelling