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That's not true. EU has very strict policies about emissions. The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect th

That's not true. EU has very strict policies about emissions. The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits. Also: in many EU countries fuel is heavily taxed In Italy 75% of the price to the pump is taxes. Definitely not free.

garbagetime 6y ago
Norway isn't a part of the EU.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  Does it matter if 700 million people are under the same rules if a country of 5 is not? ICE cars are not releasing CO2 for free, that's the point. in Norway gas is heavily taxed as well
- Gwypaas 6y ago
  Too simple a take on the relations between EU and Norway, here is a more comprehensive view: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_... In short, as much part of EU you can be without being part of it. Norway keeps the freedom on key areas like fishing rights and agriculture while essentially being part of everything else without voting rights. And in some partnerships also having voting rights due to their structure.
  - garbagetime 6y ago
    >Too simple a take on the relations between EU and Norway It's just the truth. Norway is not a member of the EU. But I agree that it is good to have a strong understanding of what exactly the relationship is between Norway and the European Union.
    - Arnt 6y ago
      Some of you may be noticed that the EU tends to make decisions that are acceptable to the countries that pay.
    - oblio 6y ago
      The truth is that except for some quite narrow fields, the EU decides a lot of things and Norway has to accept those things. They're like Switzerland, which hemmeded and hawed about immigration from the EU, held a referendum deciding to block it, and then when the EU put an economic gun to their head, backed down and all EU citizens now have freedom of movement to Switzerland.
      - _Microft 6y ago
        Freedom of movement (and a lot of other things) is guaranteed in the Bilateral I agreements [0] between the EU and Switzerland which are protected by a so-called guillotine clause [1]. The latter meaning that violation of any part of the agreement would void all of it. The result of the referendum would definitely violate part of the agreement and the EU just reminded Switzerland of the consequences. If anything it could be blamed on the initiators and supporters (SVP) of the referendum to not properly inform the populace of the consequences of a successful referendum. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#Treaties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_U... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine_clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine_clause
      - 082349872349872 6y ago
        We've spent almost three decades negotiating and harmonising with the EU and still have plenty to work out afresh every year, so if the UK thinks it will tie up its divorce with a bowed ribbon in three months, the only word I have for that negotiating position is: brave.
- jwieczorek 6y ago
  Norway isn't part of the EU but is part of the EEA. It is through that membership that it's bound by the same as other EU countries economic agreements that through simplification people tend to associate with the EU.
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
Carbon emissions and units of currency are not fungible. So unless some of that tax is intended to be a carbon tax and works to incentive cleaner alternatives, then this is a pretty weak argument. Also, the producers aren't paying he cost, end users are[1] and without much in the way of alternatives. 1. always do, but you get where I'm coming from
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  > So unless some of that tax is intended to be a carbon tax and works to incentive cleaner alternatives, then this is a pretty weak argument. Of course the incentive is towards cleaner alternatives, in my country is public transport (trains, trams and subway are electric here). > Also, the producers aren't paying he cost fiscal incentive for EV go straight to car producers pockets, I don't see the difference taxing owners is a way to drive them to buy a different product, cheaper for the buyer and more profitable for the seller it works both ways
imtringued 6y ago
Germany plans to introduce a CO2 price and it won't end with cheaper fuel even though it is already quite expensive. The existing taxes aren't high enough to cover the CO2 price.
lazyjones 6y ago
> The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits Wishful thinking. You can still drive the most extreme of polluting vehicles as long as they're old enough, or as long as their manufacturer cheated at emission tests (many recalls are still pending for years).
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  > as long as they're old enough old enough as in 30 years old at least there are very few of them and usually they can't be trusted to commute everyday > as their manufacturer cheated at emission tests that's universally true. there was an article yesterday about Tesla Y built with cheap material and rooftop flying away while driving I guess it can be considered dangerous too

garbagetime 6y ago

Norway isn't a part of the EU.

romanoderoma 6y ago
Does it matter if 700 million people are under the same rules if a country of 5 is not? ICE cars are not releasing CO2 for free, that's the point. in Norway gas is heavily taxed as well
Gwypaas 6y ago
Too simple a take on the relations between EU and Norway, here is a more comprehensive view: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_... In short, as much part of EU you can be without being part of it. Norway keeps the freedom on key areas like fishing rights and agriculture while essentially being part of everything else without voting rights. And in some partnerships also having voting rights due to their structure.
- garbagetime 6y ago
  >Too simple a take on the relations between EU and Norway It's just the truth. Norway is not a member of the EU. But I agree that it is good to have a strong understanding of what exactly the relationship is between Norway and the European Union.
  - Arnt 6y ago
    Some of you may be noticed that the EU tends to make decisions that are acceptable to the countries that pay.
  - oblio 6y ago
    The truth is that except for some quite narrow fields, the EU decides a lot of things and Norway has to accept those things. They're like Switzerland, which hemmeded and hawed about immigration from the EU, held a referendum deciding to block it, and then when the EU put an economic gun to their head, backed down and all EU citizens now have freedom of movement to Switzerland.
    - _Microft 6y ago
      Freedom of movement (and a lot of other things) is guaranteed in the Bilateral I agreements [0] between the EU and Switzerland which are protected by a so-called guillotine clause [1]. The latter meaning that violation of any part of the agreement would void all of it. The result of the referendum would definitely violate part of the agreement and the EU just reminded Switzerland of the consequences. If anything it could be blamed on the initiators and supporters (SVP) of the referendum to not properly inform the populace of the consequences of a successful referendum. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#Treaties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_U... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine_clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine_clause
    - 082349872349872 6y ago
      We've spent almost three decades negotiating and harmonising with the EU and still have plenty to work out afresh every year, so if the UK thinks it will tie up its divorce with a bowed ribbon in three months, the only word I have for that negotiating position is: brave.
jwieczorek 6y ago
Norway isn't part of the EU but is part of the EEA. It is through that membership that it's bound by the same as other EU countries economic agreements that through simplification people tend to associate with the EU.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

Carbon emissions and units of currency are not fungible. So unless some of that tax is intended to be a carbon tax and works to incentive cleaner alternatives, then this is a pretty weak argument. Also, the producers aren't paying he cost, end users are[1] and without much in the way of alternatives. 1. always do, but you get where I'm coming from

romanoderoma 6y ago
> So unless some of that tax is intended to be a carbon tax and works to incentive cleaner alternatives, then this is a pretty weak argument. Of course the incentive is towards cleaner alternatives, in my country is public transport (trains, trams and subway are electric here). > Also, the producers aren't paying he cost fiscal incentive for EV go straight to car producers pockets, I don't see the difference taxing owners is a way to drive them to buy a different product, cheaper for the buyer and more profitable for the seller it works both ways

imtringued 6y ago

Germany plans to introduce a CO2 price and it won't end with cheaper fuel even though it is already quite expensive. The existing taxes aren't high enough to cover the CO2 price.

lazyjones 6y ago

> The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits Wishful thinking. You can still drive the most extreme of polluting vehicles as long as they're old enough, or as long as their manufacturer cheated at emission tests (many recalls are still pending for years).

romanoderoma 6y ago
> as long as they're old enough old enough as in 30 years old at least there are very few of them and usually they can't be trusted to commute everyday > as their manufacturer cheated at emission tests that's universally true. there was an article yesterday about Tesla Y built with cheap material and rooftop flying away while driving I guess it can be considered dangerous too