8 ms·

I'd hardly call it a "great design". From a specification point of view Tesla is below Kia on everything from exteriors to interiors. It's a low cost design, n

I'd hardly call it a "great design". From a specification point of view Tesla is below Kia on everything from exteriors to interiors. It's a low cost design, not a great design.

agumonkey 6y ago
are you referring to jd powers ranking https://mms.businesswire.com/media/20200624005175/en/800694/5/2020070a.jpg?download=1 https://mms.businesswire.com/media/20200624005175/en/800694/... ? I'm not a car guy and never even touched a tesla so I'm curious what's bad in them.
- logicOnly 6y ago
  Wow that chart is telling. But I designed interior parts, so it's my own Engineering take. Tesla's were not competitive at all. The gaps between panels were so bad, you could stick your finger in it. That's not just an appearance issue, kids and adults will mess around with large gaps and put stuff inside. And features in the interior were non existent. (Especially for a luxury car)
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    Almost funny how they manage to sell tech and a bit of style as luxury :) I guess meaning is relative so 2020 luxury means curves, a tablet and skateboard battery pack.
    - solarkraft 6y ago
      I'd say the he Model 3 is sold as a modern car rather than a luxury car.
    - Bud 6y ago
      Interesting that you are just glossing over the fact that a) Tesla trounces all competition on performance and b) Tesla trounces basically everyone on safety as well. I guess that's inconvenient to mention?
      - mikestew 6y ago
        a) for that kind of money, and lack of features, it better go fast (cornering, meh, not so much). b) You are commenting on an article that talks about a Tesla loosing its roof. That's a new one on me, and I'd thought I'd seen it all back when I was an auto mechanic.
        jcheng 6y ago
        It's bad (obviously) but not unprecedented https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/car-loses-roof-on-interstate-without-warning-its-not-the-first-time/77-baf17602-8d70-4f2c-9790-94db700a1c4b https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/car-loses-... https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1041062_recall-your-corvette-could-lose-its-roof--at-speed https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1041062_recall-your-co... https://www.motor1.com/news/419197/lotus-elise-loses-roof-highway/ https://www.motor1.com/news/419197/lotus-elise-loses-roof-hi...
  - jayd16 6y ago
    Gaps seem better these days. I'd be interested to see some of the analysis on the 3 updated.
- NickM 6y ago
  Just my own personal experience, I've owned two Teslas (a 2014 Model S and a 2018 Model 3) and they both had a pretty good number of problems here and there. The S was particularly bad, though that is maybe not surprising since it was one of the first 50k cars the company built, but the 3 has had its share of issues as well. But the thing is, I've never had any issues that rendered the car undriveable or unsafe, and service has always been a joy to work with. Every problem I've encountered has been addressed quickly and effectively with no hassle or charge. So, I'm willing to forgive some of the rough edges, and I suspect this is why they get such good customer satisfaction ratings despite the relatively high number of issues.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    Cars should be available, not spend time in the shop for repairs that could have been avoided. It's great that you are so forgiving but for me a trip to the garage for some small issue would eat up half a day easily and that adds up quickly when there are a number of issues.
    - NickM 6y ago
      I mean, I agree with the sentiment, but also you're assuming you'd similarly waste half a day for a Tesla repair, and that's usually not the way things work. Tesla will frequently send a technician to a customer's home or place of work and fix issues on the spot. Even when I've had to go to a service center in person, they've included free rideshare credits for quick repairs so that I don't have to wait around, or free loaner cars for longer repairs. Back in the old days when I lived far away from a service center, they once drove hundreds of miles with a flatbed to come pick up my car, and dropped off a free loaner at my house while my car was in the shop, then came back and returned my car and picked up the loaner a few days later. (The loaner was also a nicer Tesla than the one I owned.) They really do go above and beyond to resolve issues as pleasantly and conveniently as possible.
  - tyfon 6y ago
    I have a recent X, the panels fit together, no rattles or squeeks and the issues I've had were fixed fast. Last was the voice control button on the steering wheel that failed to work, reported it on last Thursday, they were at my door with mobile service at 9 this Monday. I did test drive a 2013 S and I decided to wait until they matured at that point but now they seem to have gotten their act together in most cases. They're actually on par with Audi here in Norway when it comes to customer satisfaction so it's not all bad [1]. Only Toyota, volvo and BMW beat them. They had a dip due to an overcrowded service department at the launch of the Model 3, but they hired a ton of people and trained them. Now this roof falling off is one area they could improve greatly, factory Q&A. There should be a bumpy test track where they take all their vehicles for a control drive before shipping them to eliminate issues like that roof. [1] https://www.tu.no/artikler/tesla-gjor-et-byks-i-kundetilfredshet/492177 https://www.tu.no/artikler/tesla-gjor-et-byks-i-kundetilfred...
- rodgerd 6y ago
  Well, for one example: Tesla Model 3 production was constrained based on the amount of paint their factory was consented to spray every day. When Model 3 production started climbing, customers were seeing very thin and uneven paint application, well below what's normal for a car in this price bracket, and often very light on critical areas like the sills. Owners in snow-bound places where Tesla is popular, such as Scandanavia, were reporting pain stripping within a few months of ownership. I don't know about you, but my expectation for what is nominally a luxury car would be to have paint standards better than British Leyland in the 70s.
  - socialdemocrat 6y ago
    I really think the constant reference to Tesla as a luxury car is a bit wrong. Tesla is a tech car, modern car, whatever you may call it. There is nothing about a Tesla that suggests they are trying to make it appear luxurious. Where are the expensive materials and ornamentation? They are trying to make a futuristic car.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
It's a design that is getting sold to people who are getting starry eyed over other aspects of the car. They don't care that the fit and finish is befitting an Aveo. They care that they're driving a sexy new EV from the leading manufacturer of sexy new EVs. From the perspective of "keep Tesla relevant and financially solvent-ish" it's a great design. They know what the people they're selling to care about and what they don't and the latter isn't getting much attention. It's like how the Tacoma has been the turd of it's segment on paper for 20+yr but still flies off the shelves. Clearly the metric don't tell the whole story. In both cases there's an emotional value proposition that's doing a lot of heavy lifting. And since I know in advance that this comment is gonna piss off a hell of a lot of people here (if I had to pick a demographic that will have both a Tacoma and a Tesla in their driveway HN would be about the perfect fit) I'll ask in advance if any of those people would like to tell me why I'm so wrong.
- everdrive 6y ago
  >It's like how the Tacoma has been the turd of it's segment on paper for 20+yr I must know more. What's wrong with the Tacoma?
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    Toyota trucks have thin sheet metal for the bodies and rust out rapidly in snow country.
    - bumby 6y ago
      I know this was the case decades ago, but is this still an issue after using galvanized steel bodies?
      - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
        It is common to see a rust trail coming off the rear wiper of their SUVs made in the last ten years.
  - 6y ago
shuckles 6y ago
As someone who’s designed auto interiors, where other people see simplicity like a single touchscreen for all controls, I see an ergonomic disaster motivated by cost cutting.
- pascalmahe 6y ago
  I'm genuinely curious, could you explain how the touchscreen is a disaster? I haven't seen a Tesla interior so when you say "all controls" it's a bit concerning. I'm assuming you're talking only of non-driving related control...
  - vidanay 6y ago
    I have never seen/driven a Tesla either, but I believe the only manual controls are gas, brake, steering, and turn signals. Everything else is in the touch screen UI. edit: I bit more than I originally thought, but not much. (gear selector, lights, and cruise control also have manual interfaces) https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/JO/model_s_eu_en.PDF https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/JO/model_s_eu...
  - vrc 6y ago
    Because of the lack of tactile feedback, touchscreens often lead to distracted driving by forcing drivers to take their eyes off of the road to carry out simple tasks. As an example, take HVAC and radio functionality -- in older cars with buttons and knobs, after a short amount of time, people can operate these functions without looking. The same is not true for touchscreens. That's not to say that there is no place for them in cars, but the consensus it's better to use a combination of touch screen (for things you don't often adjust while driving) and physical controls (for things you do). But it's generally cheaper to slap a big ol' touchscreen in cars that does everything, and change configurations in software, rather than investing in custom interior designs for each model of car. And it's not just Tesla doing this, even companies who hang their hat on safety like Subarus are stuffing more and more functionality into touchscreens[0]. [0] https://www.motortrend.com/cars/subaru/outback/2020/2020-subaru-outback-interior-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/cars/subaru/outback/2020/2020-sub...

I'd hardly call it a "great design". From a specification point of view Tesla is below Kia on everything from exteriors to interiors. It's a low cost design, not a great design.

agumonkey 6y ago

are you referring to jd powers ranking https://mms.businesswire.com/media/20200624005175/en/800694/5/2020070a.jpg?download=1 https://mms.businesswire.com/media/20200624005175/en/800694/... ? I'm not a car guy and never even touched a tesla so I'm curious what's bad in them.

logicOnly 6y ago
Wow that chart is telling. But I designed interior parts, so it's my own Engineering take. Tesla's were not competitive at all. The gaps between panels were so bad, you could stick your finger in it. That's not just an appearance issue, kids and adults will mess around with large gaps and put stuff inside. And features in the interior were non existent. (Especially for a luxury car)
- agumonkey 6y ago
  Almost funny how they manage to sell tech and a bit of style as luxury :) I guess meaning is relative so 2020 luxury means curves, a tablet and skateboard battery pack.
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    I'd say the he Model 3 is sold as a modern car rather than a luxury car.
  - Bud 6y ago
    Interesting that you are just glossing over the fact that a) Tesla trounces all competition on performance and b) Tesla trounces basically everyone on safety as well. I guess that's inconvenient to mention?
    - mikestew 6y ago
      a) for that kind of money, and lack of features, it better go fast (cornering, meh, not so much). b) You are commenting on an article that talks about a Tesla loosing its roof. That's a new one on me, and I'd thought I'd seen it all back when I was an auto mechanic.
      - jcheng 6y ago
        It's bad (obviously) but not unprecedented https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/car-loses-roof-on-interstate-without-warning-its-not-the-first-time/77-baf17602-8d70-4f2c-9790-94db700a1c4b https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/car-loses-... https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1041062_recall-your-corvette-could-lose-its-roof--at-speed https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1041062_recall-your-co... https://www.motor1.com/news/419197/lotus-elise-loses-roof-highway/ https://www.motor1.com/news/419197/lotus-elise-loses-roof-hi...
- jayd16 6y ago
  Gaps seem better these days. I'd be interested to see some of the analysis on the 3 updated.
NickM 6y ago
Just my own personal experience, I've owned two Teslas (a 2014 Model S and a 2018 Model 3) and they both had a pretty good number of problems here and there. The S was particularly bad, though that is maybe not surprising since it was one of the first 50k cars the company built, but the 3 has had its share of issues as well. But the thing is, I've never had any issues that rendered the car undriveable or unsafe, and service has always been a joy to work with. Every problem I've encountered has been addressed quickly and effectively with no hassle or charge. So, I'm willing to forgive some of the rough edges, and I suspect this is why they get such good customer satisfaction ratings despite the relatively high number of issues.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  Cars should be available, not spend time in the shop for repairs that could have been avoided. It's great that you are so forgiving but for me a trip to the garage for some small issue would eat up half a day easily and that adds up quickly when there are a number of issues.
  - NickM 6y ago
    I mean, I agree with the sentiment, but also you're assuming you'd similarly waste half a day for a Tesla repair, and that's usually not the way things work. Tesla will frequently send a technician to a customer's home or place of work and fix issues on the spot. Even when I've had to go to a service center in person, they've included free rideshare credits for quick repairs so that I don't have to wait around, or free loaner cars for longer repairs. Back in the old days when I lived far away from a service center, they once drove hundreds of miles with a flatbed to come pick up my car, and dropped off a free loaner at my house while my car was in the shop, then came back and returned my car and picked up the loaner a few days later. (The loaner was also a nicer Tesla than the one I owned.) They really do go above and beyond to resolve issues as pleasantly and conveniently as possible.
- tyfon 6y ago
  I have a recent X, the panels fit together, no rattles or squeeks and the issues I've had were fixed fast. Last was the voice control button on the steering wheel that failed to work, reported it on last Thursday, they were at my door with mobile service at 9 this Monday. I did test drive a 2013 S and I decided to wait until they matured at that point but now they seem to have gotten their act together in most cases. They're actually on par with Audi here in Norway when it comes to customer satisfaction so it's not all bad [1]. Only Toyota, volvo and BMW beat them. They had a dip due to an overcrowded service department at the launch of the Model 3, but they hired a ton of people and trained them. Now this roof falling off is one area they could improve greatly, factory Q&A. There should be a bumpy test track where they take all their vehicles for a control drive before shipping them to eliminate issues like that roof. [1] https://www.tu.no/artikler/tesla-gjor-et-byks-i-kundetilfredshet/492177 https://www.tu.no/artikler/tesla-gjor-et-byks-i-kundetilfred...
rodgerd 6y ago
Well, for one example: Tesla Model 3 production was constrained based on the amount of paint their factory was consented to spray every day. When Model 3 production started climbing, customers were seeing very thin and uneven paint application, well below what's normal for a car in this price bracket, and often very light on critical areas like the sills. Owners in snow-bound places where Tesla is popular, such as Scandanavia, were reporting pain stripping within a few months of ownership. I don't know about you, but my expectation for what is nominally a luxury car would be to have paint standards better than British Leyland in the 70s.
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  I really think the constant reference to Tesla as a luxury car is a bit wrong. Tesla is a tech car, modern car, whatever you may call it. There is nothing about a Tesla that suggests they are trying to make it appear luxurious. Where are the expensive materials and ornamentation? They are trying to make a futuristic car.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

It's a design that is getting sold to people who are getting starry eyed over other aspects of the car. They don't care that the fit and finish is befitting an Aveo. They care that they're driving a sexy new EV from the leading manufacturer of sexy new EVs. From the perspective of "keep Tesla relevant and financially solvent-ish" it's a great design. They know what the people they're selling to care about and what they don't and the latter isn't getting much attention. It's like how the Tacoma has been the turd of it's segment on paper for 20+yr but still flies off the shelves. Clearly the metric don't tell the whole story. In both cases there's an emotional value proposition that's doing a lot of heavy lifting. And since I know in advance that this comment is gonna piss off a hell of a lot of people here (if I had to pick a demographic that will have both a Tacoma and a Tesla in their driveway HN would be about the perfect fit) I'll ask in advance if any of those people would like to tell me why I'm so wrong.

everdrive 6y ago
>It's like how the Tacoma has been the turd of it's segment on paper for 20+yr I must know more. What's wrong with the Tacoma?
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Toyota trucks have thin sheet metal for the bodies and rust out rapidly in snow country.
  - bumby 6y ago
    I know this was the case decades ago, but is this still an issue after using galvanized steel bodies?
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      It is common to see a rust trail coming off the rear wiper of their SUVs made in the last ten years.
- 6y ago

shuckles 6y ago

As someone who’s designed auto interiors, where other people see simplicity like a single touchscreen for all controls, I see an ergonomic disaster motivated by cost cutting.

pascalmahe 6y ago
I'm genuinely curious, could you explain how the touchscreen is a disaster? I haven't seen a Tesla interior so when you say "all controls" it's a bit concerning. I'm assuming you're talking only of non-driving related control...
- vidanay 6y ago
  I have never seen/driven a Tesla either, but I believe the only manual controls are gas, brake, steering, and turn signals. Everything else is in the touch screen UI. edit: I bit more than I originally thought, but not much. (gear selector, lights, and cruise control also have manual interfaces) https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/JO/model_s_eu_en.PDF https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/JO/model_s_eu...
- vrc 6y ago
  Because of the lack of tactile feedback, touchscreens often lead to distracted driving by forcing drivers to take their eyes off of the road to carry out simple tasks. As an example, take HVAC and radio functionality -- in older cars with buttons and knobs, after a short amount of time, people can operate these functions without looking. The same is not true for touchscreens. That's not to say that there is no place for them in cars, but the consensus it's better to use a combination of touch screen (for things you don't often adjust while driving) and physical controls (for things you do). But it's generally cheaper to slap a big ol' touchscreen in cars that does everything, and change configurations in software, rather than investing in custom interior designs for each model of car. And it's not just Tesla doing this, even companies who hang their hat on safety like Subarus are stuffing more and more functionality into touchscreens[0]. [0] https://www.motortrend.com/cars/subaru/outback/2020/2020-subaru-outback-interior-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/cars/subaru/outback/2020/2020-sub...