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"In September, Business Insider reported that a Tesla owner found non-standard parts like plastic straps and faux wood, that looked like they were from "Home De

"In September, Business Insider reported that a Tesla owner found non-standard parts like plastic straps and faux wood, that looked like they were from "Home Depot," holding the cooling unit of their Mode Y in place. " I have no skin in the Tesla game. I'm not much of a car guy. But I just recently bought a new vehicle and I ruled out Tesla because of that story from last month. I was looking at cars when that story came out. I don't know if stories like flying roofs, and the wood and the other stuff only make the news because they're Tesla and maybe these things don't happen all that often, but that non-standard parts thing really made me steer clear of Tesla while shopping for cars last month. It seems like so many of these things just don't happen to other cars?

sokoloff 6y ago
Tesla is an unconventional, scrappy company led by an unconventional, scrappy CEO. I'm not surprised that they do unconventional, scrappy things. I'd be totally comfortable with the wood load spreaders from last month's stories or the fact that some of the cars are built in tent factories. I don't think those issues are blockers. I do think they have a general need to improve their quality and fit/finish, but those are in some cases things that must come from experience and track record of mass production, but I think those are unrelated to scrappiness. (Disclaimer: I am short $TSLA on the basis of comparative valuation only, not because they are incapable. For that, I'm short $NKLA.)
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  > I am short $TSLA on the basis of comparative valuation only What are you comparing the valuation to? Other car companies? Revenue? I ask because when there are so many emotional investors in a stock like Tesla, I've found it hard to rationalize the price. For that reason, I'm nervous about going short or long for any length of time. That said, I've had a lot of success day trading the price action.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    I feel like there's a certain exuberance for the great things that Tesla (and SpaceX) have achieved. Much of that exuberance is well-justified by the delivery. It seems likely to me that continued excellence of execution is priced into the stock at these levels and that no company is that perfect, regardless of the size of the opportunity in front of them. I also find it somewhat telling that Tesla sold $5BB of $TSLA into the market in early Sept. That might suggest that they thought the near-term market conditions were as good as they were going to get for a while. This is (IMO) a wonderful company with an excessively premium market cap.
    - duncanawoods 6y ago
      "Valuation isn't a short thesis" as they say. Totally fraudulent companies can trade for decades and price corrections don't happen without a trigger. IMHO only enter a short position when you have identified the cause of a correction and you know it is happening now.
- m-ee 6y ago
  As someone who’s worked in an FDA regulated industry the idea of changing material and design like that without any kind of change control vetting is insane. Speaks to an underpowered/ineffectual quality department. Can someone in the automotive space comment if there’s really no legal/regulatory consequence for haphazardly jury rigging stuff on the fly like this?
- vardump 6y ago
  Shorting TSLA tends to be a bad idea. People have lost a boatload of money doing that.
bryanlarsen 6y ago
I view the plastic straps and faux wood as a positive. The original strap and guard were custom, but deficient. Any other car company would have kept shipping the deficient design until a new component was designed, validated, tooled and produced. That takes most of a year. Tesla will eventually replace their ad-hoc hold downs. But in the meantime they'd rather look unprofessional than ship deficient designs. Kudos.
- jrochkind1 6y ago
  What makes you confident the ad-hoc hold downs are superior, instead of "deficient" as well? Do you think they're ever even done the same way twice? What's the chance some mechanics at a particular dealer made it up, and nobody else even knows about it? As you mentioned, it was not "designed" or "validated", how could anyone be confident that it's safe, effective, or even superior to what it replaced? Or were you being sarcastic?
  - notJim 6y ago
    Any part designed within a mile or so of Elon Musk picks up a few particles of his reality distortion field that gives them a +3 superiority buff.
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  Hopefully they're properly documenting these non-standard vin numbers incase a problem is discovered with the ad hoc design change and they need to do a recall or service campaign for that change.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Another car company would not have delivered cars to the dealers if they knew that components were faulty at the time of delivery. They would have held the cars on the factory lot and replaced the components prior to shipping, because recalls are very expensive and can trigger other legal consequences to the company. Thus, recalls are only used by other automakers for problems discovered after a unit has been manufactured and shipped, not for problems discovered during the assembly of a unit. For example: if vehicles 0-99 were shipped before a problem was discovered with a component in unit 100, vehicles 0-99 gets recalled, and vehicle 100 stays on the factory lot until the replacement component is ready and installed. Vehicles 100-125 might get built before the replacement component is ready depending on how the automaker has structured their factory line and whether the component is a critical component, and if so they also remain on the factory lot. Vehicles 126+ are assembled with the replacement component so they get shipped after assembly is complete.
beervirus 6y ago
That stuff is sloppy, but not a huge deal for me. What's really a deal-breaker is the always-on internet connection, the monitoring/telemetry, and the idea that although I'm buying a car, it's not really mine, because I'm only licensing the software that lets it function. If I could buy a Cybertruck that functioned without a connection to the mothership, I would.
- travisoneill1 6y ago
  > What's really a deal-breaker is the always-on internet connection Do you drive with a smartphone now? > If I could buy a Cybertruck that functioned without a connection to the mothership, I would. They work offline: https://www.quora.com/Can-you-still-drive-a-Tesla-if-its-offline https://www.quora.com/Can-you-still-drive-a-Tesla-if-its-off...
  - beervirus 6y ago
    > Do you drive with a smartphone now? Everybody always brings that up. I don't love it, but yes I do, and I trust Apple more than I trust Tesla. > They work offline They somewhat work, and it's not clear for how long. If it goes a year without being able to connect, is it fine with that? Or will it stop working until it's able to update?
Bhilai 6y ago
Yeah same and I was not convinced that its worth paying $50k for the model3 I was considering.
dmode 6y ago
Honestly, you missed out. Don't form your opinion on a single article, they are designed to drive clicks. I have found /r/teslamotors to be fairly humble site with honest opinions
- nostrebored 6y ago
  The Tesla community is where you would get advice about Tesla? It's literally straight bias
- speedgoose 6y ago
  r/teslamotors it fine, but you need to know that they do delete a lot of posts, which is fine. They also have a lot of people that put money in Tesla and will defend the company. They have a weekly reminder about that, it's a bit weird.

sokoloff 6y ago

Tesla is an unconventional, scrappy company led by an unconventional, scrappy CEO. I'm not surprised that they do unconventional, scrappy things. I'd be totally comfortable with the wood load spreaders from last month's stories or the fact that some of the cars are built in tent factories. I don't think those issues are blockers. I do think they have a general need to improve their quality and fit/finish, but those are in some cases things that must come from experience and track record of mass production, but I think those are unrelated to scrappiness. (Disclaimer: I am short $TSLA on the basis of comparative valuation only, not because they are incapable. For that, I'm short $NKLA.)

bonestamp2 6y ago
> I am short $TSLA on the basis of comparative valuation only What are you comparing the valuation to? Other car companies? Revenue? I ask because when there are so many emotional investors in a stock like Tesla, I've found it hard to rationalize the price. For that reason, I'm nervous about going short or long for any length of time. That said, I've had a lot of success day trading the price action.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I feel like there's a certain exuberance for the great things that Tesla (and SpaceX) have achieved. Much of that exuberance is well-justified by the delivery. It seems likely to me that continued excellence of execution is priced into the stock at these levels and that no company is that perfect, regardless of the size of the opportunity in front of them. I also find it somewhat telling that Tesla sold $5BB of $TSLA into the market in early Sept. That might suggest that they thought the near-term market conditions were as good as they were going to get for a while. This is (IMO) a wonderful company with an excessively premium market cap.
  - duncanawoods 6y ago
    "Valuation isn't a short thesis" as they say. Totally fraudulent companies can trade for decades and price corrections don't happen without a trigger. IMHO only enter a short position when you have identified the cause of a correction and you know it is happening now.
m-ee 6y ago
As someone who’s worked in an FDA regulated industry the idea of changing material and design like that without any kind of change control vetting is insane. Speaks to an underpowered/ineffectual quality department. Can someone in the automotive space comment if there’s really no legal/regulatory consequence for haphazardly jury rigging stuff on the fly like this?
vardump 6y ago
Shorting TSLA tends to be a bad idea. People have lost a boatload of money doing that.

bryanlarsen 6y ago

I view the plastic straps and faux wood as a positive. The original strap and guard were custom, but deficient. Any other car company would have kept shipping the deficient design until a new component was designed, validated, tooled and produced. That takes most of a year. Tesla will eventually replace their ad-hoc hold downs. But in the meantime they'd rather look unprofessional than ship deficient designs. Kudos.

jrochkind1 6y ago
What makes you confident the ad-hoc hold downs are superior, instead of "deficient" as well? Do you think they're ever even done the same way twice? What's the chance some mechanics at a particular dealer made it up, and nobody else even knows about it? As you mentioned, it was not "designed" or "validated", how could anyone be confident that it's safe, effective, or even superior to what it replaced? Or were you being sarcastic?
- notJim 6y ago
  Any part designed within a mile or so of Elon Musk picks up a few particles of his reality distortion field that gives them a +3 superiority buff.
bonestamp2 6y ago
Hopefully they're properly documenting these non-standard vin numbers incase a problem is discovered with the ad hoc design change and they need to do a recall or service campaign for that change.
gamblor956 6y ago
Another car company would not have delivered cars to the dealers if they knew that components were faulty at the time of delivery. They would have held the cars on the factory lot and replaced the components prior to shipping, because recalls are very expensive and can trigger other legal consequences to the company. Thus, recalls are only used by other automakers for problems discovered after a unit has been manufactured and shipped, not for problems discovered during the assembly of a unit. For example: if vehicles 0-99 were shipped before a problem was discovered with a component in unit 100, vehicles 0-99 gets recalled, and vehicle 100 stays on the factory lot until the replacement component is ready and installed. Vehicles 100-125 might get built before the replacement component is ready depending on how the automaker has structured their factory line and whether the component is a critical component, and if so they also remain on the factory lot. Vehicles 126+ are assembled with the replacement component so they get shipped after assembly is complete.

beervirus 6y ago

That stuff is sloppy, but not a huge deal for me. What's really a deal-breaker is the always-on internet connection, the monitoring/telemetry, and the idea that although I'm buying a car, it's not really mine, because I'm only licensing the software that lets it function. If I could buy a Cybertruck that functioned without a connection to the mothership, I would.

travisoneill1 6y ago
> What's really a deal-breaker is the always-on internet connection Do you drive with a smartphone now? > If I could buy a Cybertruck that functioned without a connection to the mothership, I would. They work offline: https://www.quora.com/Can-you-still-drive-a-Tesla-if-its-offline https://www.quora.com/Can-you-still-drive-a-Tesla-if-its-off...
- beervirus 6y ago
  > Do you drive with a smartphone now? Everybody always brings that up. I don't love it, but yes I do, and I trust Apple more than I trust Tesla. > They work offline They somewhat work, and it's not clear for how long. If it goes a year without being able to connect, is it fine with that? Or will it stop working until it's able to update?

Bhilai 6y ago

Yeah same and I was not convinced that its worth paying $50k for the model3 I was considering.

dmode 6y ago

Honestly, you missed out. Don't form your opinion on a single article, they are designed to drive clicks. I have found /r/teslamotors to be fairly humble site with honest opinions

nostrebored 6y ago
The Tesla community is where you would get advice about Tesla? It's literally straight bias
speedgoose 6y ago
r/teslamotors it fine, but you need to know that they do delete a lot of posts, which is fine. They also have a lot of people that put money in Tesla and will defend the company. They have a weekly reminder about that, it's a bit weird.