7 ms·

Bad scare call. In the US, over 3 million Puerto Ricans are now allowed to migrate to the mainland US (say to DC). The borders are completely open to them. In

Bad scare call. In the US, over 3 million Puerto Ricans are now allowed to migrate to the mainland US (say to DC). The borders are completely open to them. In Europe, similarly, around 20M Romanians are allowed to Sweden. But they don’t. Just because people are allowed to migrate, it doesn’t mean they will. And in the case of an overwhelming majority, they won’t.

juniper_strong 6y ago
> In the US, over 3 million Puerto Ricans are now allowed to migrate to the mainland US (say to DC). The borders are completely open to them. In Europe, similarly, around 20M Romanians are allowed to Sweden. But they don’t According to Wikipedia, as of 2018 there were 5.8 million Puerto Ricans living stateside. The population of Puerto Rico is around 2.8 million. There are more than twice as many Puerto Ricans living on the mainland as there are in Puerto Rico.
- runarberg 6y ago
  This only makes my point against the GP stronger. So half the population of Puerto Rico has already migrated to the mainland US, without anything terrible happening to the mainland US as a result. The myths about the negative consequences of open border policy have no basis in reality.
  - Sessions 6y ago
    That is an entirely different point than the one you made in your previous response.
    - runarberg 6y ago
      Indeed, but the two points complement each other. Most people don’t migrate away from their home country/state. But even if they did, it would be of no negative consequence for the place they migrate to.
  - travisoneill1 6y ago
    You are aware that China is a lot bigger than Puerto Rico, right?
- jeromegv 6y ago
  This number includes people with Puerto Ricans ancestry (therefore not born in Puerto Rico). Some of them might have migrated out of Puerto Rico 100 years ago, I don't think looking at number is relevant at all to this discussion.
adventured 6y ago
> In Europe, similarly, around 20M Romanians are allowed to Sweden. But they don’t. Supposedly allowed and not at all welcome. Like most affluent countries, Sweden doesn't actually want poor people immigrating into their country. So they make things very difficult for those people. It's also why they shut down the big immigration flood, their society was highly intolerant to it. Americans - commonly ignorant to the details of rest of the world - would be shocked to learn how regressive Scandinavia can be. From very strict immigration to virtually bulldozing minority neighborhoods in Denmark [1][2], to attacks on immigrants in Sweden and burning immigrant camps, to large political parties derived from former neo-nazi groups. From Reuters in 2015 (the Romanians got the message): "A series of attacks in Sweden on beggars, many Roma, has highlighted a dark side to a country considered a bastion of tolerance but where the far right has been gaining support by claiming society is under threat from waves of immigrants." "An influx of thousands of mainly Roma migrants has shocked affluent Swedes, with beggars now a common sight outside supermarkets, IKEA stores and subways in the capital." "There were around 300 reported attacks on Roma in 2014, up 23 percent on the year before, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention. Police say the figures underestimate the scale of the problem." "The government reckons around 5,000 migrants, some of whom also come from Hungary, are in Sweden begging. Many live on the street or in squalid camps. In recent months, attackers have thrown acid at beggars and burned tents and caravans." "Many migrants in Sweden say they want to work, but lack of education and language skills make it impossible for most, leaving begging as the only alternative." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden/swedish-tolerance-under-question-as-attacks-on-migrants-rise-idUSKCN0QT0BB20150824 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden/sw... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immi... "When Rokhaia Naassan gives birth in the coming days, she and her baby boy will enter a new category in the eyes of Danish law. Because she lives in a low-income immigrant neighborhood described by the government as a “ghetto,” Rokhaia will be what the Danish newspapers call a “ghetto parent” and he will be a “ghetto child.” Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six." [2] https://www.npr.org/2020/08/15/900874510/facing-eviction-residents-of-denmarks-ghettos-are-suing-the-government https://www.npr.org/2020/08/15/900874510/facing-eviction-res... "Facing Eviction, Residents Of Denmark's 'Ghettos' Are Suing The Government"
claudeganon 6y ago
> In the US, over 3 million Puerto Ricans are now allowed to migrate to the mainland US It should be clarified that this is because they are US citizens. Everyone in North Dakota can move to DC too.
- burner831234 6y ago
  I feel like this should be far more upvoted than it is. PR is America. They aren't immigrants, they are migrants, just like most of SF's tech class.

juniper_strong 6y ago

> In the US, over 3 million Puerto Ricans are now allowed to migrate to the mainland US (say to DC). The borders are completely open to them. In Europe, similarly, around 20M Romanians are allowed to Sweden. But they don’t According to Wikipedia, as of 2018 there were 5.8 million Puerto Ricans living stateside. The population of Puerto Rico is around 2.8 million. There are more than twice as many Puerto Ricans living on the mainland as there are in Puerto Rico.

runarberg 6y ago
This only makes my point against the GP stronger. So half the population of Puerto Rico has already migrated to the mainland US, without anything terrible happening to the mainland US as a result. The myths about the negative consequences of open border policy have no basis in reality.
- Sessions 6y ago
  That is an entirely different point than the one you made in your previous response.
  - runarberg 6y ago
    Indeed, but the two points complement each other. Most people don’t migrate away from their home country/state. But even if they did, it would be of no negative consequence for the place they migrate to.
- travisoneill1 6y ago
  You are aware that China is a lot bigger than Puerto Rico, right?
jeromegv 6y ago
This number includes people with Puerto Ricans ancestry (therefore not born in Puerto Rico). Some of them might have migrated out of Puerto Rico 100 years ago, I don't think looking at number is relevant at all to this discussion.

adventured 6y ago

> In Europe, similarly, around 20M Romanians are allowed to Sweden. But they don’t. Supposedly allowed and not at all welcome. Like most affluent countries, Sweden doesn't actually want poor people immigrating into their country. So they make things very difficult for those people. It's also why they shut down the big immigration flood, their society was highly intolerant to it. Americans - commonly ignorant to the details of rest of the world - would be shocked to learn how regressive Scandinavia can be. From very strict immigration to virtually bulldozing minority neighborhoods in Denmark [1][2], to attacks on immigrants in Sweden and burning immigrant camps, to large political parties derived from former neo-nazi groups. From Reuters in 2015 (the Romanians got the message): "A series of attacks in Sweden on beggars, many Roma, has highlighted a dark side to a country considered a bastion of tolerance but where the far right has been gaining support by claiming society is under threat from waves of immigrants." "An influx of thousands of mainly Roma migrants has shocked affluent Swedes, with beggars now a common sight outside supermarkets, IKEA stores and subways in the capital." "There were around 300 reported attacks on Roma in 2014, up 23 percent on the year before, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention. Police say the figures underestimate the scale of the problem." "The government reckons around 5,000 migrants, some of whom also come from Hungary, are in Sweden begging. Many live on the street or in squalid camps. In recent months, attackers have thrown acid at beggars and burned tents and caravans." "Many migrants in Sweden say they want to work, but lack of education and language skills make it impossible for most, leaving begging as the only alternative." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden/swedish-tolerance-under-question-as-attacks-on-migrants-rise-idUSKCN0QT0BB20150824 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden/sw... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immi... "When Rokhaia Naassan gives birth in the coming days, she and her baby boy will enter a new category in the eyes of Danish law. Because she lives in a low-income immigrant neighborhood described by the government as a “ghetto,” Rokhaia will be what the Danish newspapers call a “ghetto parent” and he will be a “ghetto child.” Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six." [2] https://www.npr.org/2020/08/15/900874510/facing-eviction-residents-of-denmarks-ghettos-are-suing-the-government https://www.npr.org/2020/08/15/900874510/facing-eviction-res... "Facing Eviction, Residents Of Denmark's 'Ghettos' Are Suing The Government"

claudeganon 6y ago

> In the US, over 3 million Puerto Ricans are now allowed to migrate to the mainland US It should be clarified that this is because they are US citizens. Everyone in North Dakota can move to DC too.

burner831234 6y ago
I feel like this should be far more upvoted than it is. PR is America. They aren't immigrants, they are migrants, just like most of SF's tech class.