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I finally agree with something this administration is doing. This is a solid move. H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number

I finally agree with something this administration is doing. This is a solid move. H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. I just hope the new administration don't role back these changes. Typically when a new administration comes in they have a "throwing the baby with the bath water" mentality. I hope they realize the things that the previous administration did which makes sense and keeps them

guitarbill 6y ago
exactly. although there's more than one way to fix this. one controversial idea, but in line with capitalism is to just give (highly) skilled immigrants permanent residency (other countries do this already, and the H-1B process is also pretty rigorous). why? because right now with e.g. the H-1B, your employer has to petition for a green card. as you've said, it costs a lot of money to sponsor an H-1B. a reason some bad-faith companies do this is because they know the H-1B employee is tied to them (although an H-1B transfer is not too difficult). imagine if it was easier for visa holders to switch employees? i'm not holding my breath though. in any case, having H-1B be a lottery was always weird. i just hope this doesn't impact any existing H-1B holders :(
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> I finally agree with something this administration is doing. As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
glennpratt 6y ago
> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) I don't see this exactly. I have worked with multiple, brilliant visa holders. Many of them have moved on to bigger and better things. Presumably paying a huge amount in taxes for the privilege. Most software developers I know are not making what I would deem suppressed wages, especially in the current conditions (and I don't have an SV job). Most firms I know would hire more people, but instead are contracting with firms and individuals outside of the US. I suspect that's going to ramp up more.
- victor106 6y ago
  > I have worked with multiple, brilliant visa holders. I don’t disagree one bit. I think immigrants contributed and continue to contribute tremendously to the US economy. But at the same time policies should not be used to suppress wages by the “C” suite class. By paying low salaries it increases profits for the companies and contributes to income inequality
- biztos 6y ago
  I have worked with brilliant H1B holders and also with manifestly mediocre ones. And even a couple "net negative" employees. To the best of my knowledge all of them played the game diligently and got their green cards, and many of them got their citizenship. Good for them, and in many cases good for us. But I absolutely did not see any greater level of talent among the H1B's than any other cohort in SF/SV. While I'm very happy to work with people from all over the world, I do think that H1B has been used to get a lot of people in who aren't any better than your local City College grads. In addition to that being radically against the national interest, it's also really unfair to the "brilliant visa holders" you have had the good fortune to work with.
  - bialpio 6y ago
    The problem in the US, as I understood it, is that there is shortage of workers in IT [1]. To me, it sounds like turning off the stream of potential workers, without fixing the underlying issue. With the current rules (85k H-1Bs a year), it would take 10 years for immigrants to fill all the spots. There may be a lot of untapped talent left in the US (based on under-representation of women, that's a discussion for another time), but somehow, the vacancies are not getting filled - what gives? In addition, it seems that even currently, H-1B program has rules to make sure the wages paid are fair [2] - if they are not, it sounds like a problem with enforcement, or with how prevailing wages are calculated. To me, based on [3], it does not look like calculating the prevailing wage is the problem. [1] "In the past three months, U.S. employers had about 918,000 unfilled IT jobs, according to IT trade group CompTIA." - https://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-got-talent-just-not-enough-in-it-11571168626 https://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-got-talent-just-not-en... [2] "Employers must attest to the Department of Labor that they will pay wages to the H-1B nonimmigrant workers that are at least equal to the actual wage paid by the employer to other workers with similar experience and qualifications for the job in question, or the prevailing wage for the occupation in the area of intended employment – whichever is greater." - https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b [3] https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1132&area=42660&year=21&source=1 https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1...
not_a_moth 6y ago
Curious, you didn't agree with the ME work that got 3 nobel peace prize nominations?
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  I don't think we disagree with it, it just isn't very significant. A couple of city states agreeing to recognize Israel? Ok, a nice step forward, but it doesn't seem very substantial or that a real solution is in the works.
  - not_a_moth 6y ago
    One of the nominators said: "Trump has broken a 39-year-old streak of American Presidents either starting a war or bringing the United States into an international armed conflict." Isn't this significant?
    - hiram112 6y ago
      Even doubly as funny when you go back to 2016 and the biggest haters were screaming REEEEEEE because he was sure to start WW3.
    - originalvichy 6y ago
      How low is your bar for peace medal worthy efforts? If not starting wars is an achievement there’s a bloody long line of heads of state ready to receive one. And yes I do realize the bar was set low by the previous president.
      - not_a_moth 6y ago
        Sorry the discussion is about the commenter not agreeing with any previous policies of the president. If you don't think this quote marks an important shift in American policy I'm not sure you follow American policy.
  - refurb 6y ago
    How familiar would you rate yourself with Middle East politics? From people I know who are quite deep into it, it’s actually a very significant change to the geopolitical balance of the region that will likely have a lot of ramifications going forward.
asdf_snar 6y ago
> The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. ... and those of us (perhaps sufficiently few) who work on H1B legally, for the visa's purpose (insufficient American expertise).
zouhair 6y ago
My question is then: what this changes? the company will just keep the indentured worker working longer to recoup. Am I missing something?
- jeremyjh 6y ago
  It would mean less downward pressure on wages for everyone.
  - bduerst 6y ago
    H1B visa holders already require being paid more than the prevailing wage for the same SOC job in the same area. And no, the consultant chop shops haven't been an issue for at least four years now since USCIS started cracking down on them.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
So will my google interview now be easier?
- dodobirdlord 6y ago
  Probably harder, actually. Google and other high-paying tech companies have been lobbying for this change for years. There are only 85k/year slots for H1B visas and they are awarded by lottery. High-paying tech companies generally have a high hiring bar and don’t find all that many candidates, so they don’t submit all that many applications to the lottery, and as a result their candidates get swamped out by the hordes of applications from body shops like Tata. This change will drive a lot of applications from low-paying companies out of the pool, and high-paying companies will be able to hire a larger share of the candidates they submit applications for each year.
  - esolyt 6y ago
    They were lobbying for an increased quota, not for wage requirements for H1B workers.
- kamaal 6y ago
  Most people don't get this obvious fact. Blocking low paid neurosurgeons from coming into your country, never translates to allowing barbers to operate on your head. It probably means you either go into a wait queue to get your operation done, or you fly to a different country where those doctors are present. Either way the operation will be more expensive, and your country will have less know-how at the end. You also have to now deal with the consequences of having awesome things getting done outside your country, which means the next generation of neurosurgeons won't be coming out of your country. At least not all of them. Now Google or any other company isn't going lower the bar for hiring, they'll just happily open offices outside US to get the cream of the those countries. The fact that it could hurt your feelings is just irrelevant here. Its very much like getting hired to Navy SEALs or some into some other elite unit. They have their criteria, they really don't mind rejecting you if you don't measure up.
ycombonator 6y ago
The new administration will absolutely roll back these changes to kowtow to pro immigration groups and wage sensitive Silicon Valley. Obama administration expanded the coverage of H1B to their spouses (H4 dependents) who previously were ineligible to work. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-1b-specialty-occupations-and-fashion-models/employment-authorization-for-certain-h-4-dependent-spouses https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...
- mavelikara 6y ago
  Obama administration allowed Employment Authorization for dependents of H-1B visa holders who applied and were chosen for permanent residency and were stuck in the backlogs. Many of these people - women, mostly - have been unable to participate meaningfully in the economy of many years. What is the problem with allowing them to work while they wait for their turn to be permanent residents?
  - Dork1234 6y ago
    The original idea of the H1-B Visa was these were high paying jobs where the spouse wouldn't need to work. It appears the pay rate has not kept with with inflation and/or cost of living.
    - thowaway23413 6y ago
      Apologies for bringing up the obvious. But just because "the spouse" doesn't need to work, doesn't mean they don't want to work. "The spouse" shouldn't be denied the right to work just because their partner has an H1-B. For shame.
      - Dork1234 6y ago
        They are not denied the right to work, but they are not given the right by default. The spouse can still apply to work via other means, but should not be given a work Visa by default. These restrictions on spouses are the same of every other country I have heard of, the US is the only one that had a special Visa just for spouses.
spicyramen 6y ago
+1 on this. I have a CS masters degree from top UK university and was hired as Software Engineer, but company registered me as a Computer technician. When my H1b required renewal, DoL found out that I was a Software Engineer and company was forced to give a 20k yearly increase, not retroactive. This was Cisco. This is a.great move for people like me that I had no idea about salary ranges and US laws
- ascar 6y ago
  I fail to see how your points are correlated to the changes. (As far as I grasped them, because wsj is paywalled...) If a company lowered your wages by wrongfully registering you for a lower paid position, they could still do so, because the crux is comparing the salary to a different demographic. The problem wasn't with the law, but with them screwing you and you not carefully reviewing the visa laws of the country you immigrated to. It actually sounds like the new visa regulations will make immigration for entry level positions much harder. So your alternative would've likely been not getting a job in the US to begin with.
  - spicyramen 6y ago
    Well, let me explain you that when you migrate to a new country, apart from dealing with your work Visa you need to deal with driving license, SSN registration, bank accounts, rental, car, new language, new work culture, new life...so yeah I should have known back in 2007 when there was no glassdoor, blind that I was underpaid by that much and company registering me as X when my company title was different.
    - ascar 6y ago
      I'm very well aware of what you have to do as I immigrated to two countries myself. My point was not that it's not understandable that you were not aware of that, but that this change in law has nothing todo with being unaware of the law. Your underpayment happened in violation of the previous law and with the new regulation you might not have gotten the job to begin with.
switch11 6y ago
As a former H1B holder who walked away from a Green Card because being a bonded laborer for 10+ years to a large tech company wasn't my cup of tea I agree 1000% with you on this -> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. * It's bonded labor of people desperate to get into the western world and/or get into Silicon Valley/US tech scene It only benefits large tech companies A) US citizens have lower salaries (lucky ones) or don't get jobs (unlucky ones) B) H1B workers are paid less and are bonded labor C) US itself loses out because many of those people would have started companies Do you want people starting PinDuoDuo, FlipKart, Meituan Dianping, Shopify type companies in US or in other countries? Then why instead of letting these 'brightest people from around the world' become entrpreneurs in US are you asking them to spend 22 to 35 being bonded labor for data surveillance companies like FB and GOOG???
- some_account99 6y ago
  Shopify is canadian, Meituan Dianping and PinDuoDuo play in the chinese ecosystem and Flipkart is an indigenous solution for a global south country (it isn't that unique, there are ons of them and they dont bring value to the american economy except spotify). Also there is a huge moral assumption being made by many on HN: non-citizens have the right and a moral imperative to participate in the american economy. It's almost as if america's value as codify by their laws doesnt matter and these folks basically view the issue really not about respecting those laws but about the task of influence.
- Traster 6y ago
  Let me provide the counter (A) The fact that silicon valley gets access to global talent which make sthe companies much more successful and massively increases the number of jobs available providing far more jobs for US citizens than if the visa program didn't exist (B) The H1B visa holders are earning far more than they would get by remaining in their home country, and whilst they're bonded labour in the US they can always return to their home country leaving them at a minimum with a choice between a better job in the US or the same situation they had in their home country anyway. (C) The US gains a bunch of highly intelligent, highly taxable employees who will likely eventually become citizens and can then create startups as well as providing a larger labour pool for the people who are starting companies. All of your critiques are comparing H1B visas against some imaginary system where people can come to work in the US with no restriction, and let's remind ourselves these changes are from a thoroughly anti-immigration administratrion. The alternative to the H1B system is no H1B system, which is why it's been so difficult to reform. There is no law getting out of congress that reduces the restrictions on immigration.
willis936 6y ago
I do think it’s strange that HN has a supposed stance against political discussion, but allows discussion of the one popular policy from a very unpopular administration. Seems like a double standard leaning to the right.
- GavinMcG 6y ago
  Discussing policies and discussing politics is hardly the same thing.
  - willis936 6y ago
    Then there are plenty of equally-or-more pertinent policies that should also be discussed. Immigration is the 6th most important topic to American voters this election [0,1]. Trump has unpopular stances on the top 5 topics [2] but headlines related to that are not allowed on HN because they are political. This is the double standard. Finally, Trump’s legal immigration policy is very anti-immigration [3]. This is a stunt to get an uptick in votes. The reality is that this policy sounds nice on paper but will make it even harder for people to immigrate to the US. 0. https://news.gallup.com/poll/276932/several-issues-tie-important-2020-election.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/276932/several-issues-tie-impor... 1. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/08/13/important-issues-in-the-2020-election/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/08/13/important-is... 2. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/where-president-trump-stands-on-the-issues-in-2020 https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/where-president-trump-... 3. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/26/fact-check-and-review-of-trump-immigration-policy/#2e0173bf56c0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/26/fact-...
    - GavinMcG 6y ago
      Pertinent how? H1B visas are exceptionally relevant to Silicon Valley/Y Combinator, and the topic is understandably treated exceptionally.
- purple-again 6y ago
  How are changes to H1B's a political issue in the same vein as say the president going to the hospital? H1B's are huge in the tech industry and so of course of huge interest to the tech community directly.

guitarbill 6y ago

exactly. although there's more than one way to fix this. one controversial idea, but in line with capitalism is to just give (highly) skilled immigrants permanent residency (other countries do this already, and the H-1B process is also pretty rigorous). why? because right now with e.g. the H-1B, your employer has to petition for a green card. as you've said, it costs a lot of money to sponsor an H-1B. a reason some bad-faith companies do this is because they know the H-1B employee is tied to them (although an H-1B transfer is not too difficult). imagine if it was easier for visa holders to switch employees? i'm not holding my breath though. in any case, having H-1B be a lottery was always weird. i just hope this doesn't impact any existing H-1B holders :(

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

> I finally agree with something this administration is doing. As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

glennpratt 6y ago

> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) I don't see this exactly. I have worked with multiple, brilliant visa holders. Many of them have moved on to bigger and better things. Presumably paying a huge amount in taxes for the privilege. Most software developers I know are not making what I would deem suppressed wages, especially in the current conditions (and I don't have an SV job). Most firms I know would hire more people, but instead are contracting with firms and individuals outside of the US. I suspect that's going to ramp up more.

victor106 6y ago
> I have worked with multiple, brilliant visa holders. I don’t disagree one bit. I think immigrants contributed and continue to contribute tremendously to the US economy. But at the same time policies should not be used to suppress wages by the “C” suite class. By paying low salaries it increases profits for the companies and contributes to income inequality
biztos 6y ago
I have worked with brilliant H1B holders and also with manifestly mediocre ones. And even a couple "net negative" employees. To the best of my knowledge all of them played the game diligently and got their green cards, and many of them got their citizenship. Good for them, and in many cases good for us. But I absolutely did not see any greater level of talent among the H1B's than any other cohort in SF/SV. While I'm very happy to work with people from all over the world, I do think that H1B has been used to get a lot of people in who aren't any better than your local City College grads. In addition to that being radically against the national interest, it's also really unfair to the "brilliant visa holders" you have had the good fortune to work with.
- bialpio 6y ago
  The problem in the US, as I understood it, is that there is shortage of workers in IT [1]. To me, it sounds like turning off the stream of potential workers, without fixing the underlying issue. With the current rules (85k H-1Bs a year), it would take 10 years for immigrants to fill all the spots. There may be a lot of untapped talent left in the US (based on under-representation of women, that's a discussion for another time), but somehow, the vacancies are not getting filled - what gives? In addition, it seems that even currently, H-1B program has rules to make sure the wages paid are fair [2] - if they are not, it sounds like a problem with enforcement, or with how prevailing wages are calculated. To me, based on [3], it does not look like calculating the prevailing wage is the problem. [1] "In the past three months, U.S. employers had about 918,000 unfilled IT jobs, according to IT trade group CompTIA." - https://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-got-talent-just-not-enough-in-it-11571168626 https://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-got-talent-just-not-en... [2] "Employers must attest to the Department of Labor that they will pay wages to the H-1B nonimmigrant workers that are at least equal to the actual wage paid by the employer to other workers with similar experience and qualifications for the job in question, or the prevailing wage for the occupation in the area of intended employment – whichever is greater." - https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b [3] https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1132&area=42660&year=21&source=1 https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1...

not_a_moth 6y ago

Curious, you didn't agree with the ME work that got 3 nobel peace prize nominations?

seanmcdirmid 6y ago
I don't think we disagree with it, it just isn't very significant. A couple of city states agreeing to recognize Israel? Ok, a nice step forward, but it doesn't seem very substantial or that a real solution is in the works.
- not_a_moth 6y ago
  One of the nominators said: "Trump has broken a 39-year-old streak of American Presidents either starting a war or bringing the United States into an international armed conflict." Isn't this significant?
  - hiram112 6y ago
    Even doubly as funny when you go back to 2016 and the biggest haters were screaming REEEEEEE because he was sure to start WW3.
  - originalvichy 6y ago
    How low is your bar for peace medal worthy efforts? If not starting wars is an achievement there’s a bloody long line of heads of state ready to receive one. And yes I do realize the bar was set low by the previous president.
    - not_a_moth 6y ago
      Sorry the discussion is about the commenter not agreeing with any previous policies of the president. If you don't think this quote marks an important shift in American policy I'm not sure you follow American policy.
- refurb 6y ago
  How familiar would you rate yourself with Middle East politics? From people I know who are quite deep into it, it’s actually a very significant change to the geopolitical balance of the region that will likely have a lot of ramifications going forward.

asdf_snar 6y ago

> The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. ... and those of us (perhaps sufficiently few) who work on H1B legally, for the visa's purpose (insufficient American expertise).

zouhair 6y ago

My question is then: what this changes? the company will just keep the indentured worker working longer to recoup. Am I missing something?

jeremyjh 6y ago
It would mean less downward pressure on wages for everyone.
- bduerst 6y ago
  H1B visa holders already require being paid more than the prevailing wage for the same SOC job in the same area. And no, the consultant chop shops haven't been an issue for at least four years now since USCIS started cracking down on them.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

So will my google interview now be easier?

dodobirdlord 6y ago
Probably harder, actually. Google and other high-paying tech companies have been lobbying for this change for years. There are only 85k/year slots for H1B visas and they are awarded by lottery. High-paying tech companies generally have a high hiring bar and don’t find all that many candidates, so they don’t submit all that many applications to the lottery, and as a result their candidates get swamped out by the hordes of applications from body shops like Tata. This change will drive a lot of applications from low-paying companies out of the pool, and high-paying companies will be able to hire a larger share of the candidates they submit applications for each year.
- esolyt 6y ago
  They were lobbying for an increased quota, not for wage requirements for H1B workers.
kamaal 6y ago
Most people don't get this obvious fact. Blocking low paid neurosurgeons from coming into your country, never translates to allowing barbers to operate on your head. It probably means you either go into a wait queue to get your operation done, or you fly to a different country where those doctors are present. Either way the operation will be more expensive, and your country will have less know-how at the end. You also have to now deal with the consequences of having awesome things getting done outside your country, which means the next generation of neurosurgeons won't be coming out of your country. At least not all of them. Now Google or any other company isn't going lower the bar for hiring, they'll just happily open offices outside US to get the cream of the those countries. The fact that it could hurt your feelings is just irrelevant here. Its very much like getting hired to Navy SEALs or some into some other elite unit. They have their criteria, they really don't mind rejecting you if you don't measure up.

ycombonator 6y ago

The new administration will absolutely roll back these changes to kowtow to pro immigration groups and wage sensitive Silicon Valley. Obama administration expanded the coverage of H1B to their spouses (H4 dependents) who previously were ineligible to work. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-1b-specialty-occupations-and-fashion-models/employment-authorization-for-certain-h-4-dependent-spouses https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...

mavelikara 6y ago
Obama administration allowed Employment Authorization for dependents of H-1B visa holders who applied and were chosen for permanent residency and were stuck in the backlogs. Many of these people - women, mostly - have been unable to participate meaningfully in the economy of many years. What is the problem with allowing them to work while they wait for their turn to be permanent residents?
- Dork1234 6y ago
  The original idea of the H1-B Visa was these were high paying jobs where the spouse wouldn't need to work. It appears the pay rate has not kept with with inflation and/or cost of living.
  - thowaway23413 6y ago
    Apologies for bringing up the obvious. But just because "the spouse" doesn't need to work, doesn't mean they don't want to work. "The spouse" shouldn't be denied the right to work just because their partner has an H1-B. For shame.
    - Dork1234 6y ago
      They are not denied the right to work, but they are not given the right by default. The spouse can still apply to work via other means, but should not be given a work Visa by default. These restrictions on spouses are the same of every other country I have heard of, the US is the only one that had a special Visa just for spouses.

spicyramen 6y ago

+1 on this. I have a CS masters degree from top UK university and was hired as Software Engineer, but company registered me as a Computer technician. When my H1b required renewal, DoL found out that I was a Software Engineer and company was forced to give a 20k yearly increase, not retroactive. This was Cisco. This is a.great move for people like me that I had no idea about salary ranges and US laws

ascar 6y ago
I fail to see how your points are correlated to the changes. (As far as I grasped them, because wsj is paywalled...) If a company lowered your wages by wrongfully registering you for a lower paid position, they could still do so, because the crux is comparing the salary to a different demographic. The problem wasn't with the law, but with them screwing you and you not carefully reviewing the visa laws of the country you immigrated to. It actually sounds like the new visa regulations will make immigration for entry level positions much harder. So your alternative would've likely been not getting a job in the US to begin with.
- spicyramen 6y ago
  Well, let me explain you that when you migrate to a new country, apart from dealing with your work Visa you need to deal with driving license, SSN registration, bank accounts, rental, car, new language, new work culture, new life...so yeah I should have known back in 2007 when there was no glassdoor, blind that I was underpaid by that much and company registering me as X when my company title was different.
  - ascar 6y ago
    I'm very well aware of what you have to do as I immigrated to two countries myself. My point was not that it's not understandable that you were not aware of that, but that this change in law has nothing todo with being unaware of the law. Your underpayment happened in violation of the previous law and with the new regulation you might not have gotten the job to begin with.

switch11 6y ago

As a former H1B holder who walked away from a Green Card because being a bonded laborer for 10+ years to a large tech company wasn't my cup of tea I agree 1000% with you on this -> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. * It's bonded labor of people desperate to get into the western world and/or get into Silicon Valley/US tech scene It only benefits large tech companies A) US citizens have lower salaries (lucky ones) or don't get jobs (unlucky ones) B) H1B workers are paid less and are bonded labor C) US itself loses out because many of those people would have started companies Do you want people starting PinDuoDuo, FlipKart, Meituan Dianping, Shopify type companies in US or in other countries? Then why instead of letting these 'brightest people from around the world' become entrpreneurs in US are you asking them to spend 22 to 35 being bonded labor for data surveillance companies like FB and GOOG???

some_account99 6y ago
Shopify is canadian, Meituan Dianping and PinDuoDuo play in the chinese ecosystem and Flipkart is an indigenous solution for a global south country (it isn't that unique, there are ons of them and they dont bring value to the american economy except spotify). Also there is a huge moral assumption being made by many on HN: non-citizens have the right and a moral imperative to participate in the american economy. It's almost as if america's value as codify by their laws doesnt matter and these folks basically view the issue really not about respecting those laws but about the task of influence.
Traster 6y ago
Let me provide the counter (A) The fact that silicon valley gets access to global talent which make sthe companies much more successful and massively increases the number of jobs available providing far more jobs for US citizens than if the visa program didn't exist (B) The H1B visa holders are earning far more than they would get by remaining in their home country, and whilst they're bonded labour in the US they can always return to their home country leaving them at a minimum with a choice between a better job in the US or the same situation they had in their home country anyway. (C) The US gains a bunch of highly intelligent, highly taxable employees who will likely eventually become citizens and can then create startups as well as providing a larger labour pool for the people who are starting companies. All of your critiques are comparing H1B visas against some imaginary system where people can come to work in the US with no restriction, and let's remind ourselves these changes are from a thoroughly anti-immigration administratrion. The alternative to the H1B system is no H1B system, which is why it's been so difficult to reform. There is no law getting out of congress that reduces the restrictions on immigration.

willis936 6y ago

I do think it’s strange that HN has a supposed stance against political discussion, but allows discussion of the one popular policy from a very unpopular administration. Seems like a double standard leaning to the right.

GavinMcG 6y ago
Discussing policies and discussing politics is hardly the same thing.
- willis936 6y ago
  Then there are plenty of equally-or-more pertinent policies that should also be discussed. Immigration is the 6th most important topic to American voters this election [0,1]. Trump has unpopular stances on the top 5 topics [2] but headlines related to that are not allowed on HN because they are political. This is the double standard. Finally, Trump’s legal immigration policy is very anti-immigration [3]. This is a stunt to get an uptick in votes. The reality is that this policy sounds nice on paper but will make it even harder for people to immigrate to the US. 0. https://news.gallup.com/poll/276932/several-issues-tie-important-2020-election.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/276932/several-issues-tie-impor... 1. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/08/13/important-issues-in-the-2020-election/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/08/13/important-is... 2. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/where-president-trump-stands-on-the-issues-in-2020 https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/where-president-trump-... 3. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/26/fact-check-and-review-of-trump-immigration-policy/#2e0173bf56c0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/26/fact-...
  - GavinMcG 6y ago
    Pertinent how? H1B visas are exceptionally relevant to Silicon Valley/Y Combinator, and the topic is understandably treated exceptionally.
purple-again 6y ago
How are changes to H1B's a political issue in the same vein as say the president going to the hospital? H1B's are huge in the tech industry and so of course of huge interest to the tech community directly.