7 ms·

EU considers phasing out 1 and 2 cent coins

43 points by jpkoning 6y ago

lwansbrough 6y ago
As a Canadian it baffles me that other countries are still messing with pennies. We stopped minting ours in 2012 and haven't looked back. I'm a proponent of cash, but the penny is obsolete. So too is any change smaller than a quarter, IMO.
- _whiteCaps_ 6y ago
  And with debit/credit transactions, it's still calculated to the penny, so there's no issues with rounding there.
  - TylerE 6y ago
    Depends. Gas pumps actually calculate and bill in mills (1/10th cents). Half cents coins were minted until 1857. When they were phased out they were worth the equivalent of 58 cents in 2020 dollars.
- bawolff 6y ago
  As a canadian, if they could get rid of the nickle and dime too, that'd be great. If we have to have sub-quarter, i wish it was 12.5 cents instead.
  - ajayyy 6y ago
    Best would be to replace 25 cents with 20 cents.
    - bdamm 6y ago
      Why would it be best, considering the enormous cost of replacing 25 cent coins with 20 cent coins? What advantage does 20 cent coins have over 25 cent coins?
      - p1mrx 6y ago
        Because it lets you round prices to 10 cents (drop a digit), rather than 5.
        lccarrasco 6y ago
        Technically you'd have to round to 20 cents, since you can't get 10, 30, 50 etc. cents from 20s.
        p1mrx 6y ago
        We already have 10 cent coins. The common pattern is 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, ...
    - p1mrx 6y ago
      Maybe we could redefine the quarter to be worth 20 cents? You could take 4 quarters to the bank, and get back 5 with "20" stamped on them. Machines that accept quarters just need to tweak the quantity. It'd be nice to have a smaller 50-cent coin also.
- grecy 6y ago
  As an Australian who immigrated to Canada, it baffles me it took you guys so long! Australia got rid of theirs in 1992. Whenever I go to the US I try as hard as I can to always drop them in the take-a-penny-leave-a-penny-tray lest my pockets tear from the bulk.
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    As an American, I think pennies should only be used when appropriate. Such as when traveling by air or making expensive purchases. There's nothing so satisfying as plunking down a sack of pennies when purchasing stuff and saying "just let me know if it's not enough." The above is sarcasm. I hate pennies. They are pretty much useless these days. The only joy I get from them is when someone annoys me, I can throw them at the person. They are so useless, in fact, that it actually costs nearly twice the value of a penny ($0.0183)[0] to mint one. That said, I'd really like it if larger denomination coins ($1/5/10) were common in the US as they are in the EU. Generally coins with value more than $0.25 aren't used (yes, $0.50 and $1 coins exist, but are rarely used/distributed). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(United_States_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(United_States_coin) Edit: Added forgotten link.
    - grecy 6y ago
      Of course it's easy to see why Pennies are still made in the US (at a loss, as you said), and it's the same reason so many things are the way they are (Healthcare, education, roads, etc.) Someone is making a lot of money from the status quo, and they will fight very hard to keep it.
- jrockway 6y ago
  Unfortunately, people like the penny in the US because it has Abe Lincoln on it. He was a Republican, and freed the slaves, so both political parties like him. That makes removing his coin somewhat difficult. I grew up in Illinois ("Land of Lincoln") and it was one of the only states where you could pay toll with the penny, because Lincoln was such a powerful symbol. I guess that got killed off in 2017, however. (You can't use any coins now, it seems.) (While researching this comment, I found it hilarious that IDOT had a COVID-19-related unpaid toll relief program, but they accidentally sent people $0.01 invoices because of how they "leveraged an existing system" to generate invoices. Another use for your penny!)
  - projektfu 6y ago
    Then put him on the dime. Eisenhower was a good guy and he'd probably say the same thing.
    - Mountain_Skies 6y ago
      FDR is on the dime and The March of Dimes likely would have an issue with him being replaced.
      - projektfu 6y ago
        Silly me
    - mjevans 6y ago
      In the spirit of this idea: Put Lincoln on the quarter or even the back side of a dollar coin. Maybe this time make it out of titanium or something similarly like other US coins.
      - interestica 6y ago
        I mean, I don't get why there is one-person-per-coin anyway. They already have one-off runs for special commemorations so it's not like there's fear of confusion (or fear of counterfeit). Keep one side standard and put all kinds of people on them. Though, one president might decide to out their own image on the coins. It'll be weird in Canada when we replace the queen on our coinage...
- swalladge 6y ago
  As an Australian, it also baffles me. We withdrew 1 and 2 cent coins from circulation in 1992, and prices are simply rounded to the nearest 5c when paying with cash. Maximum 3c difference per transaction, which averages out in the long run.
  - rangitatanz 6y ago
    Yeah, NZ phased ours out late 80s/1990. 2004 we phased out the 5c piece as well. Anecdotally (as in I might be wrong :) I remember hearing at the time the 5c piece was phased out it was worth less than when the 1/2c pieces were originally released. NB I have put zero effort into thinking if that makes sense or is true. (edit - confirmed) [ Edit ] - We also made every other coin smaller. It's always startling to get an Australian 50c coin - even though it's the same size as ours used to be. Our's is now smaller than the AU 20c. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_New_Zealand_dollar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_New_Zealand_dolla...
    - dzhiurgis 6y ago
      I'd say 99% of my transactions are apple pay now, with 1% being rare place that doesn't take paywave. I still have couple buck of cash for those super rare cash purchases on side of the road (damn they need alipay or something like that - NZ is kinda stuck with 'good enough' banking and failing to see innovation from Revolut and the like in Europe - that said surprised how much cash still used in Europe).
  - dghughes 6y ago
    >and prices are simply rounded to the nearest 5c when paying with cash In Canada as mentioned already in the comments we phased out the penny no more made after February 4, 2013. But many business still today (Oct 2020) have items with prices ending in penny amounts. If you pay with cash it's rounded up or down but if you pay with debit, credit, or cheque the penny amount is used. Stupid because there's no incentive (ha pun!) for businesses to change (double pun!).
- umvi 6y ago
  I say eliminate pennies, nickels, and quarters. That way you can just drop the 100ths place all together and prices will be like: 1.5, 2.3, 9.9 instead of 1.25, 3.75, etc.
  - runarberg 6y ago
    Americans do love to divide into powers of two (½, ¼, and ⅛) rather then tenths. If anything they would be more likely to issue an eighth dollar as they phase out the penny, the nickle and the dime. And you would see prizes such as 4 dollar and ⅜ cents (and they would probably write it as $4–¢⅜). EDIT: And petrol stations would display the prices in sixteenths, but charge a sixteenth more.
    - Arcorann 6y ago
      The 1/8 dollar was a feature of the old Spanish dollar (hence the term "pieces of eight", the eight pieces being known as "bits" -- "two bits" is then a quarter), which is where the Americans got it in the first place. In fact, up to 2001 American stock exchanges expressed prices in 1/8 and 1/16 dollar increments (apparently 1/16 was only introduced at the NYSE in 1997).
      - runarberg 6y ago
        Amazing, I had no idea. This was only meant as a stab at Americans and their love for their love for inches. Here is a wikipedia article about bits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_%28money%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_%28money%29
- clairity 6y ago
  i'd much rather we (speaking as an american, but applicable more broadly) just rebased down 1 order of magnitude, so whatever a dollar buys today, you could instead buy with a dime. we could even let change appreciate immediately, which would be a nice little gift for the folks who tend to hold change (not rich people), but issue different paper money while exchanging the old bills out of circulation. concommitantly, we should rethink inflation as economy driver and impetus of the time value of money, which causes this devaluation in the first place.
  - sellyme 6y ago
    > but issue different paper money while exchanging the old bills out of circulation While they're at it they could bring the notes into the 20th century by making them distinguishable from a distance and less easily damaged. If you need to distinguish the old notes from the new ones to prevent anyone getting scammed, might as well kill two or three birds with the one stone.
- anfilt 6y ago
  Nothing is wrong with a 1 cent coin. It's just inflation has eroded it's value. The US penny for instance had the same purchasing power as a quarter today in 1913. Also the japanese yen is an entire currency were each unit is a cent. The problem is that eventually if your solution is to just throw out low value currency your just gonna have to throw out more because inflation. The proper tool is to rebase your currency once you have accumulated enough inflation through numerous decades.
  - solstice 6y ago
    That sounds right but how do you do this? In France there used to be the old Franc that was replaced by the new Franc at a rate of 1000:1 I think
    - anfilt 6y ago
      That's pretty much what you do. You print and mint new versions that worth 1:X of the old currency is. Also you quit printing and minting the old currency. After long enough the old stuff is pretty much out of general circulation, but banks could still exchange for instance to the newer currency.
    - anfilt 6y ago
      Also an interesting effect people don't consider about inflation is laws. For instance grand theft in the US is generally a 1000 dollars, but those laws don't account for inflation. Most these grand theft laws also were written in the 20's. So stealing same thing today could be felony, but would have only been a misdemeanor when the law was written. So re-basing also helps ensures certain statues and laws remain just. You could argue that law makers should go through old laws or account for inflation to start with, but sadly that is not the reality. Tons of laws get written with fixed monetary units.
      - fomine3 6y ago
        I found that Mexico has interesting law that considers inflation. The unit is called UMA. https://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/mexico-increase-uma-value-announced-2020 https://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/mexico...
- Taniwha 6y ago
  If Americans included sales taxes in prices, like virtually every where else, it wouldn't be a big deal, people would choose prices that were round numbers .... but instead every sales act (except petrol) requires math that most people can't do in their heads
mpd 6y ago
I'm not clear how this isn't kicking the can down the road for awhile, when eventually nickels will be the new pennies? Is there not a better solution? How much do nickels cost to make?
- TylerE 6y ago
  Well, what's better, a problem 20 years from now, or having the exact same problem 20 years from now AND also dealing with from 0-20 years? There has to be a name for this sort of "reverse slippery slope" argument, but it isn't coming to me.
  - mpd 6y ago
    That's just dumping the issue on the next generation. The solution would be different if we lived forever, I think.
    - TylerE 6y ago
      But again - the next generation has to do deal with it ANYWAY. Why not do what we can today? It literally costs MORE THAN A PENNY to make a penny. We would save over $70 million a year just by stopping making pennies.
      - mpd 6y ago
        My point is that it's wasting time and dumping problems on the future. There are stronger measures that can be taken, if the problem really needs to be solved. "Fuck it, let someone else fix it." - I'm sick of this.
        TylerE 6y ago
        I'm confused. "Fuck it, let someone else fix it." seems to be exactly what you're advocating. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good - that just keeps anything from happening. 100% solutions do not exist in the real world. This is sorta like saying "Why send a man to the moon, when we can't send even send an astronaut to the surface Venus?"
howlgarnish 6y ago
A number of EU countries (Netherlands, Ireland and Finland, IIRC) have already unilaterally done away with 1c and 2c coins. They're still legal tender, but all prices/sums are rounded to the nearest 5c so they're not necessary.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Yeah, and next up should be the dishonest price mentioning of 6.99 (which is just 7, unless you buy 3 other products of x.99).
  - RadioactiveMan 6y ago
    6.99 is 6.99. It's only 7 if you pay with cash.
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      Regardless, 6.99 is so close to 7, that simply making it 7 is more honest. I'll pay the extra cent for the increased honesty/clarity. And yes with 1 product it is still relatively easy (provided you put effort) but the more you buy in the grocery store the less oversight you get.
  - dcgudeman 6y ago
    How is it dishonest if that’s the actual price? Just because it’s close to 7?
    - runarberg 6y ago
      Because generally people will only read whole number and omit the cents, making the price appear lower then it is.
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      Yes, it is so close to 7 that describing it as 6 is dishonest (we are not talking about 6.50 or 6.51). The brain is lazy and doesn't process it as 7 whereas the relevant part (7) is left out to deceive the customer into buying the product (marketing trick is probably straight out of book of Edward Bernays). Instead, the product should be good on its own merit; so for me its an orange flag (or rather: proper, informative rounding is a green flag). We see it elsewhere too. 199 instead of 200. 999 instead of 1000. Etc.
henvic 6y ago
This is awful news. Inflation will always make people decide to phase-out the smaller denominations. One can argue that the smaller denominations are already useless, but then starting to phase out the smaller denominations will only make sure the population doesn't notice things getting worse over time. There is just a serious answer to this: freedom to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. Legal tender (when you're forced to use a given currency in a country) sucks.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  For private transactions, you are already free to offer to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. So is your counter-party, of course. If you both agree on a currency and an amount, you trade. If you don't agree, you don't. Oh wait, you wished that you could trade in whatever currency you'd prefer without granting that same privilege to your trading partner?
  - henvic 6y ago
    Uh? What you're talking doesn't make any sense. If one of entities involved in the exchange doesn't want to trade, there is no trade. Simple as that. There is no such thing as privilege here. I think you don't understand the concepts of legal tender and misunderstood what I said. No, you cannot decide to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. This is illegal in most parts of the world. Even if you base the exchange in another currency, you'll need to have a local legal tender to do it. There are exceptions, such as Panama... but in most of the world, you'll be required to exchange to the local currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      There’s a distinction between freedom to trade and legal tender. You might misunderstand why I included the word private when talking about trade. In most countries, I can rent a hotel or buy a sandwich using whatever currency we both agree. For government (not private) transactions, I am typically forced to use legal tender. (See the first sentence in the link you shared.) For private transactions, I can often use a different currency provided my trading partner agrees. In most cases where you feel like you are forced to transact in the local currency, you are being forced by your trading partner not by their government. I somewhat regularly use USD currency in countries when that’s not the local legal tender. This is very common in the Caribbean and Central America. It’s commonly accepted (though less frequently done) in Europe. In some cases, shopkeepers have even arranged to offer me currency conversion services (often on their credit card machine) to facilitate their customers' preference to use a different currency. In some rare cases, even a government demands to transact in a currency that is not the general legal tender. (The Dominican Republic charges tourists an exit fee that is denominated and paid specifically in USD.)
mexicanandre 6y ago
Yes please! We spent a year traveling through Europe and it was such a pain in the ass dealing with them. I ended up just not taking then back as change.
all_blue_chucks 6y ago
Currencies that are worth $1 more or less should round cash transactions to the nearest 10¢. Then we could simplify coinage considerably and we would all save time waiting in line for people to count out pennies and nickels over amounts that are immaterial.
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- tobinfricke 6y ago
  How often do you wait for people to count out cash and coins? I rarely see anyone paying with cash/coin any more.
H8crilA 6y ago
A funny article on the profitability of melting small coins (and you don't even have to melt them yourself to realize value!) http://www.creditbubblestocks.com/2011/02/silverbugs-why-dont-you-buy-nickels.html http://www.creditbubblestocks.com/2011/02/silverbugs-why-don... Written at the peak of the last silver blow off top in 2011.
- Zenst 6y ago
  Not just silver, many coins changed from being made with high copper to way less a few decades ago when the price of copper rose. Was a stage and still is if you get an old 1p/2p(pre 1992 when they changed) coin that the value of the copper in them, exceeds their face value. Since 1992, they are copper coated steel, which is a common with many coins worldwide today of small denominations.
  - tialaramex 6y ago
    This is fun because steel was once a very valuable metal prior to 1850 it was a specialist material produced in low volume for purposes like weaponry. So when the penny was first minted it would have been insane to waste valuable steel on making coins, let alone the penny, but by 1992 steel was so cheap that it was the obvious choice for a cheaper core.
    - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
      It's not without precedent, though. The US issued steel pennies during WW2 because of a shortage of copper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_steel_cent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_steel_cent
Zenst 6y ago
I still lament the phasing out of the UK 1/2p coin, loved those as could use them to tighten up screws and adjust the brakes upon my bicycle of the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfpenny_(British_decimal_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfpenny_(British_decimal_coi...
GarrisonPrime 6y ago
Relevant video: "Death to Pennies", by CGP Grey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5UT04p5f7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5UT04p5f7U
eointierney 6y ago
Increase the copper content of all coinage
deevolution 6y ago
More evidence of fiat inflation. Most of the spare change I recieve gets lost or thrown away. Usually if I'm handed coins as change I tell the cashier to keep it because I know i'll never use it. Even homeless people scoff at me when I give them small change.
- tobinfricke 6y ago
  > More evidence of fiat inflation. It's not like anyone is trying to hide evidence of inflation. Inflation is a measurable economic phenomenon, not some kind of secret. Furthermore, I think most economists would tell you that some level of inflation is good, because it encourages economic activity.
jrib 6y ago
Or get rid of all change! A while ago I read an article that proposed replacing change with a chance to get a dollar. So instead of 13 cents due to you: 1. you generate a random number from 1 to 100 2. if the number is <= 13, you get a dollar; otherwise you get nothing Over the long run you would have about the same amount of money. And you would have the added benefit of not having to deal with change. Coming up with a (verifiable) fair way to do (1) that is accessible to everyone is problematic though...
- nicbou 6y ago
  How would that work if you have 4€ and you need a train ticket and a snack for your journey? Your ability to buy a chocolate bar and a ticket would depend on a dice roll, even though you have enough money?
  - jrib 6y ago
    Yeah, I guess you'd always have to plan for everything possibly costing ceil(advertisedCost).
rini17 6y ago
In poor Eurozone countries like Slovakia or Greece this notion was not received favorably when switching to euro, maybe it has improved since. Supposedly it would hurt the poorest if it's impossible to buy basic food items for unrounded price (in Slovakia the popular bagel-"rožok" has cost 4 eurocents in 2009, currently 7 cents). Likewise, that it is not possible to get 5 euro notes, only 10s at least from most ATMs also caused complaints.
- gjvnq 6y ago
  What about using the small coins only on those countries?
Proven 6y ago
I've read about 10-15 comments and not a single person said they are not sure, or that getting government out of money business should allow free market figure out what is best. Talk about hubris. What a bunch of clowns!

43 points by jpkoning 6y ago

As a Canadian it baffles me that other countries are still messing with pennies. We stopped minting ours in 2012 and haven't looked back. I'm a proponent of cash, but the penny is obsolete. So too is any change smaller than a quarter, IMO.

_whiteCaps_ 6y ago
And with debit/credit transactions, it's still calculated to the penny, so there's no issues with rounding there.
- TylerE 6y ago
  Depends. Gas pumps actually calculate and bill in mills (1/10th cents). Half cents coins were minted until 1857. When they were phased out they were worth the equivalent of 58 cents in 2020 dollars.
bawolff 6y ago
As a canadian, if they could get rid of the nickle and dime too, that'd be great. If we have to have sub-quarter, i wish it was 12.5 cents instead.
- ajayyy 6y ago
  Best would be to replace 25 cents with 20 cents.
  - bdamm 6y ago
    Why would it be best, considering the enormous cost of replacing 25 cent coins with 20 cent coins? What advantage does 20 cent coins have over 25 cent coins?
    - p1mrx 6y ago
      Because it lets you round prices to 10 cents (drop a digit), rather than 5.
      - lccarrasco 6y ago
        Technically you'd have to round to 20 cents, since you can't get 10, 30, 50 etc. cents from 20s.
        p1mrx 6y ago
        We already have 10 cent coins. The common pattern is 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, ...
  - p1mrx 6y ago
    Maybe we could redefine the quarter to be worth 20 cents? You could take 4 quarters to the bank, and get back 5 with "20" stamped on them. Machines that accept quarters just need to tweak the quantity. It'd be nice to have a smaller 50-cent coin also.
grecy 6y ago
As an Australian who immigrated to Canada, it baffles me it took you guys so long! Australia got rid of theirs in 1992. Whenever I go to the US I try as hard as I can to always drop them in the take-a-penny-leave-a-penny-tray lest my pockets tear from the bulk.
- nobody9999 6y ago
  As an American, I think pennies should only be used when appropriate. Such as when traveling by air or making expensive purchases. There's nothing so satisfying as plunking down a sack of pennies when purchasing stuff and saying "just let me know if it's not enough." The above is sarcasm. I hate pennies. They are pretty much useless these days. The only joy I get from them is when someone annoys me, I can throw them at the person. They are so useless, in fact, that it actually costs nearly twice the value of a penny ($0.0183)[0] to mint one. That said, I'd really like it if larger denomination coins ($1/5/10) were common in the US as they are in the EU. Generally coins with value more than $0.25 aren't used (yes, $0.50 and $1 coins exist, but are rarely used/distributed). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(United_States_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(United_States_coin) Edit: Added forgotten link.
  - grecy 6y ago
    Of course it's easy to see why Pennies are still made in the US (at a loss, as you said), and it's the same reason so many things are the way they are (Healthcare, education, roads, etc.) Someone is making a lot of money from the status quo, and they will fight very hard to keep it.
jrockway 6y ago
Unfortunately, people like the penny in the US because it has Abe Lincoln on it. He was a Republican, and freed the slaves, so both political parties like him. That makes removing his coin somewhat difficult. I grew up in Illinois ("Land of Lincoln") and it was one of the only states where you could pay toll with the penny, because Lincoln was such a powerful symbol. I guess that got killed off in 2017, however. (You can't use any coins now, it seems.) (While researching this comment, I found it hilarious that IDOT had a COVID-19-related unpaid toll relief program, but they accidentally sent people $0.01 invoices because of how they "leveraged an existing system" to generate invoices. Another use for your penny!)
- projektfu 6y ago
  Then put him on the dime. Eisenhower was a good guy and he'd probably say the same thing.
  - Mountain_Skies 6y ago
    FDR is on the dime and The March of Dimes likely would have an issue with him being replaced.
    - projektfu 6y ago
      Silly me
  - mjevans 6y ago
    In the spirit of this idea: Put Lincoln on the quarter or even the back side of a dollar coin. Maybe this time make it out of titanium or something similarly like other US coins.
    - interestica 6y ago
      I mean, I don't get why there is one-person-per-coin anyway. They already have one-off runs for special commemorations so it's not like there's fear of confusion (or fear of counterfeit). Keep one side standard and put all kinds of people on them. Though, one president might decide to out their own image on the coins. It'll be weird in Canada when we replace the queen on our coinage...
swalladge 6y ago
As an Australian, it also baffles me. We withdrew 1 and 2 cent coins from circulation in 1992, and prices are simply rounded to the nearest 5c when paying with cash. Maximum 3c difference per transaction, which averages out in the long run.
- rangitatanz 6y ago
  Yeah, NZ phased ours out late 80s/1990. 2004 we phased out the 5c piece as well. Anecdotally (as in I might be wrong :) I remember hearing at the time the 5c piece was phased out it was worth less than when the 1/2c pieces were originally released. NB I have put zero effort into thinking if that makes sense or is true. (edit - confirmed) [ Edit ] - We also made every other coin smaller. It's always startling to get an Australian 50c coin - even though it's the same size as ours used to be. Our's is now smaller than the AU 20c. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_New_Zealand_dollar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_New_Zealand_dolla...
  - dzhiurgis 6y ago
    I'd say 99% of my transactions are apple pay now, with 1% being rare place that doesn't take paywave. I still have couple buck of cash for those super rare cash purchases on side of the road (damn they need alipay or something like that - NZ is kinda stuck with 'good enough' banking and failing to see innovation from Revolut and the like in Europe - that said surprised how much cash still used in Europe).
- dghughes 6y ago
  >and prices are simply rounded to the nearest 5c when paying with cash In Canada as mentioned already in the comments we phased out the penny no more made after February 4, 2013. But many business still today (Oct 2020) have items with prices ending in penny amounts. If you pay with cash it's rounded up or down but if you pay with debit, credit, or cheque the penny amount is used. Stupid because there's no incentive (ha pun!) for businesses to change (double pun!).
umvi 6y ago
I say eliminate pennies, nickels, and quarters. That way you can just drop the 100ths place all together and prices will be like: 1.5, 2.3, 9.9 instead of 1.25, 3.75, etc.
- runarberg 6y ago
  Americans do love to divide into powers of two (½, ¼, and ⅛) rather then tenths. If anything they would be more likely to issue an eighth dollar as they phase out the penny, the nickle and the dime. And you would see prizes such as 4 dollar and ⅜ cents (and they would probably write it as $4–¢⅜). EDIT: And petrol stations would display the prices in sixteenths, but charge a sixteenth more.
  - Arcorann 6y ago
    The 1/8 dollar was a feature of the old Spanish dollar (hence the term "pieces of eight", the eight pieces being known as "bits" -- "two bits" is then a quarter), which is where the Americans got it in the first place. In fact, up to 2001 American stock exchanges expressed prices in 1/8 and 1/16 dollar increments (apparently 1/16 was only introduced at the NYSE in 1997).
    - runarberg 6y ago
      Amazing, I had no idea. This was only meant as a stab at Americans and their love for their love for inches. Here is a wikipedia article about bits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_%28money%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_%28money%29
clairity 6y ago
i'd much rather we (speaking as an american, but applicable more broadly) just rebased down 1 order of magnitude, so whatever a dollar buys today, you could instead buy with a dime. we could even let change appreciate immediately, which would be a nice little gift for the folks who tend to hold change (not rich people), but issue different paper money while exchanging the old bills out of circulation. concommitantly, we should rethink inflation as economy driver and impetus of the time value of money, which causes this devaluation in the first place.
- sellyme 6y ago
  > but issue different paper money while exchanging the old bills out of circulation While they're at it they could bring the notes into the 20th century by making them distinguishable from a distance and less easily damaged. If you need to distinguish the old notes from the new ones to prevent anyone getting scammed, might as well kill two or three birds with the one stone.
anfilt 6y ago
Nothing is wrong with a 1 cent coin. It's just inflation has eroded it's value. The US penny for instance had the same purchasing power as a quarter today in 1913. Also the japanese yen is an entire currency were each unit is a cent. The problem is that eventually if your solution is to just throw out low value currency your just gonna have to throw out more because inflation. The proper tool is to rebase your currency once you have accumulated enough inflation through numerous decades.
- solstice 6y ago
  That sounds right but how do you do this? In France there used to be the old Franc that was replaced by the new Franc at a rate of 1000:1 I think
  - anfilt 6y ago
    That's pretty much what you do. You print and mint new versions that worth 1:X of the old currency is. Also you quit printing and minting the old currency. After long enough the old stuff is pretty much out of general circulation, but banks could still exchange for instance to the newer currency.
  - anfilt 6y ago
    Also an interesting effect people don't consider about inflation is laws. For instance grand theft in the US is generally a 1000 dollars, but those laws don't account for inflation. Most these grand theft laws also were written in the 20's. So stealing same thing today could be felony, but would have only been a misdemeanor when the law was written. So re-basing also helps ensures certain statues and laws remain just. You could argue that law makers should go through old laws or account for inflation to start with, but sadly that is not the reality. Tons of laws get written with fixed monetary units.
    - fomine3 6y ago
      I found that Mexico has interesting law that considers inflation. The unit is called UMA. https://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/mexico-increase-uma-value-announced-2020 https://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/mexico...
Taniwha 6y ago
If Americans included sales taxes in prices, like virtually every where else, it wouldn't be a big deal, people would choose prices that were round numbers .... but instead every sales act (except petrol) requires math that most people can't do in their heads

mpd 6y ago

I'm not clear how this isn't kicking the can down the road for awhile, when eventually nickels will be the new pennies? Is there not a better solution? How much do nickels cost to make?

TylerE 6y ago
Well, what's better, a problem 20 years from now, or having the exact same problem 20 years from now AND also dealing with from 0-20 years? There has to be a name for this sort of "reverse slippery slope" argument, but it isn't coming to me.
- mpd 6y ago
  That's just dumping the issue on the next generation. The solution would be different if we lived forever, I think.
  - TylerE 6y ago
    But again - the next generation has to do deal with it ANYWAY. Why not do what we can today? It literally costs MORE THAN A PENNY to make a penny. We would save over $70 million a year just by stopping making pennies.
    - mpd 6y ago
      My point is that it's wasting time and dumping problems on the future. There are stronger measures that can be taken, if the problem really needs to be solved. "Fuck it, let someone else fix it." - I'm sick of this.
      - TylerE 6y ago
        I'm confused. "Fuck it, let someone else fix it." seems to be exactly what you're advocating. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good - that just keeps anything from happening. 100% solutions do not exist in the real world. This is sorta like saying "Why send a man to the moon, when we can't send even send an astronaut to the surface Venus?"

howlgarnish 6y ago

A number of EU countries (Netherlands, Ireland and Finland, IIRC) have already unilaterally done away with 1c and 2c coins. They're still legal tender, but all prices/sums are rounded to the nearest 5c so they're not necessary.

Fnoord 6y ago
Yeah, and next up should be the dishonest price mentioning of 6.99 (which is just 7, unless you buy 3 other products of x.99).
- RadioactiveMan 6y ago
  6.99 is 6.99. It's only 7 if you pay with cash.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    Regardless, 6.99 is so close to 7, that simply making it 7 is more honest. I'll pay the extra cent for the increased honesty/clarity. And yes with 1 product it is still relatively easy (provided you put effort) but the more you buy in the grocery store the less oversight you get.
- dcgudeman 6y ago
  How is it dishonest if that’s the actual price? Just because it’s close to 7?
  - runarberg 6y ago
    Because generally people will only read whole number and omit the cents, making the price appear lower then it is.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    Yes, it is so close to 7 that describing it as 6 is dishonest (we are not talking about 6.50 or 6.51). The brain is lazy and doesn't process it as 7 whereas the relevant part (7) is left out to deceive the customer into buying the product (marketing trick is probably straight out of book of Edward Bernays). Instead, the product should be good on its own merit; so for me its an orange flag (or rather: proper, informative rounding is a green flag). We see it elsewhere too. 199 instead of 200. 999 instead of 1000. Etc.

henvic 6y ago

This is awful news. Inflation will always make people decide to phase-out the smaller denominations. One can argue that the smaller denominations are already useless, but then starting to phase out the smaller denominations will only make sure the population doesn't notice things getting worse over time. There is just a serious answer to this: freedom to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. Legal tender (when you're forced to use a given currency in a country) sucks.

sokoloff 6y ago
For private transactions, you are already free to offer to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. So is your counter-party, of course. If you both agree on a currency and an amount, you trade. If you don't agree, you don't. Oh wait, you wished that you could trade in whatever currency you'd prefer without granting that same privilege to your trading partner?
- henvic 6y ago
  Uh? What you're talking doesn't make any sense. If one of entities involved in the exchange doesn't want to trade, there is no trade. Simple as that. There is no such thing as privilege here. I think you don't understand the concepts of legal tender and misunderstood what I said. No, you cannot decide to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. This is illegal in most parts of the world. Even if you base the exchange in another currency, you'll need to have a local legal tender to do it. There are exceptions, such as Panama... but in most of the world, you'll be required to exchange to the local currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    There’s a distinction between freedom to trade and legal tender. You might misunderstand why I included the word private when talking about trade. In most countries, I can rent a hotel or buy a sandwich using whatever currency we both agree. For government (not private) transactions, I am typically forced to use legal tender. (See the first sentence in the link you shared.) For private transactions, I can often use a different currency provided my trading partner agrees. In most cases where you feel like you are forced to transact in the local currency, you are being forced by your trading partner not by their government. I somewhat regularly use USD currency in countries when that’s not the local legal tender. This is very common in the Caribbean and Central America. It’s commonly accepted (though less frequently done) in Europe. In some cases, shopkeepers have even arranged to offer me currency conversion services (often on their credit card machine) to facilitate their customers' preference to use a different currency. In some rare cases, even a government demands to transact in a currency that is not the general legal tender. (The Dominican Republic charges tourists an exit fee that is denominated and paid specifically in USD.)

mexicanandre 6y ago

Yes please! We spent a year traveling through Europe and it was such a pain in the ass dealing with them. I ended up just not taking then back as change.

all_blue_chucks 6y ago

Currencies that are worth $1 more or less should round cash transactions to the nearest 10¢. Then we could simplify coinage considerably and we would all save time waiting in line for people to count out pennies and nickels over amounts that are immaterial.

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tobinfricke 6y ago
How often do you wait for people to count out cash and coins? I rarely see anyone paying with cash/coin any more.

H8crilA 6y ago

A funny article on the profitability of melting small coins (and you don't even have to melt them yourself to realize value!) http://www.creditbubblestocks.com/2011/02/silverbugs-why-dont-you-buy-nickels.html http://www.creditbubblestocks.com/2011/02/silverbugs-why-don... Written at the peak of the last silver blow off top in 2011.

Zenst 6y ago
Not just silver, many coins changed from being made with high copper to way less a few decades ago when the price of copper rose. Was a stage and still is if you get an old 1p/2p(pre 1992 when they changed) coin that the value of the copper in them, exceeds their face value. Since 1992, they are copper coated steel, which is a common with many coins worldwide today of small denominations.
- tialaramex 6y ago
  This is fun because steel was once a very valuable metal prior to 1850 it was a specialist material produced in low volume for purposes like weaponry. So when the penny was first minted it would have been insane to waste valuable steel on making coins, let alone the penny, but by 1992 steel was so cheap that it was the obvious choice for a cheaper core.
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    It's not without precedent, though. The US issued steel pennies during WW2 because of a shortage of copper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_steel_cent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_steel_cent

Zenst 6y ago

I still lament the phasing out of the UK 1/2p coin, loved those as could use them to tighten up screws and adjust the brakes upon my bicycle of the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfpenny_(British_decimal_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfpenny_(British_decimal_coi...

GarrisonPrime 6y ago

Relevant video: "Death to Pennies", by CGP Grey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5UT04p5f7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5UT04p5f7U

eointierney 6y ago

Increase the copper content of all coinage

deevolution 6y ago

More evidence of fiat inflation. Most of the spare change I recieve gets lost or thrown away. Usually if I'm handed coins as change I tell the cashier to keep it because I know i'll never use it. Even homeless people scoff at me when I give them small change.

tobinfricke 6y ago
> More evidence of fiat inflation. It's not like anyone is trying to hide evidence of inflation. Inflation is a measurable economic phenomenon, not some kind of secret. Furthermore, I think most economists would tell you that some level of inflation is good, because it encourages economic activity.

jrib 6y ago

Or get rid of all change! A while ago I read an article that proposed replacing change with a chance to get a dollar. So instead of 13 cents due to you: 1. you generate a random number from 1 to 100 2. if the number is <= 13, you get a dollar; otherwise you get nothing Over the long run you would have about the same amount of money. And you would have the added benefit of not having to deal with change. Coming up with a (verifiable) fair way to do (1) that is accessible to everyone is problematic though...

nicbou 6y ago
How would that work if you have 4€ and you need a train ticket and a snack for your journey? Your ability to buy a chocolate bar and a ticket would depend on a dice roll, even though you have enough money?
- jrib 6y ago
  Yeah, I guess you'd always have to plan for everything possibly costing ceil(advertisedCost).

rini17 6y ago

In poor Eurozone countries like Slovakia or Greece this notion was not received favorably when switching to euro, maybe it has improved since. Supposedly it would hurt the poorest if it's impossible to buy basic food items for unrounded price (in Slovakia the popular bagel-"rožok" has cost 4 eurocents in 2009, currently 7 cents). Likewise, that it is not possible to get 5 euro notes, only 10s at least from most ATMs also caused complaints.

gjvnq 6y ago
What about using the small coins only on those countries?

Proven 6y ago

I've read about 10-15 comments and not a single person said they are not sure, or that getting government out of money business should allow free market figure out what is best. Talk about hubris. What a bunch of clowns!