6 ms·

Yep, I have a few google minis (freebies, hmm...), I'm thinking about tossing them, honestly. Beyond asking about the weather or setting a kitchen timer they j

by jcadam 6y ago

Yep, I have a few google minis (freebies, hmm...), I'm thinking about tossing them, honestly. Beyond asking about the weather or setting a kitchen timer they just aren't very useful. And I fully believe such devices are going to be used (if they aren't already) to identify persons engaging in "wrongthink" by listening in on the private conversations in peoples' homes.

AftHurrahWinch 6y ago
Have you taken any steps to disable the always-on microphone in your smartphone?
- sildur 6y ago
  Could you please provide a guide or directions on how to do it for a Samsung or an iPhone cellphone?
  - bergstromm466 6y ago
    Step 1.) buy PinePhone.
  - WiseWeasel 6y ago
    For iPhone, go to Settings -> Siri & Search and ensure ‘Listen for “Hey Siri”’ is toggled off.
- r00fus 6y ago
  Hell yes. No phones allowed in my house with Siri or Google always-on. No echo/googlehome/etc allowed. Of course you can't completely trust it. But make it hard for them.
thisisnico 6y ago
My Amazon Alexa Listens to conversations to suggest items to purchase the next time I go on amazon. I hate this. Also I pretty much only use it to listen to the radio.
- zepto 6y ago
  How do you know this?
  - buran77 6y ago
    I did a very non-scientific and possibly irrelevant test. Together with a few other people we decided to "test" some smart assistants and phones+app combinations to see if any of the data they might collect leaks. We came up with some random but easily identifiable keywords that we'd normally never use in day to day conversation and consistently dropped them in fake conversations. I tested an Echo Dot with "Whirlpool washing machine". Others tested Google home, or the Android Facebook app. Bottom line is that Amazon and Facebook somehow decided to show exactly the random stuff we fed them. None of the stuff fed to Google, Microsoft, or Apple ever made it out in an obvious enough way for us to notice it. It's not something to draw a solid conclusion on, I'm sure the experiment had plenty of flaws but the degree of suspicion it raised was way above the noise floor and it was enough for me personally.
    - zepto 6y ago
      Are you certain that nobody searched for those keywords or entered them anywhere? If I search for something, it immediately shows up in the facebook feed of the person I live with. We aren’t even friends on facebook. However we share an IP address via NAT, and I’m sure location data has leaked enough to correlate us. I have never yet come across an example of this where there aren’t correlating variables other than the always listening mic theory.
      - buran77 6y ago
        I'm as confident as I can be that the chosen keywords were never spoken in casual conversation (especially since none of us speak English around the house) or searched from that IP. Every mobile device in the household is permanently connected to my network via VPN. The entire Amazon usage is comprised of 2 browsers on 2 different PCs. The Echo was used just as an experiment (came as a freebie) and spent most of its time hearing me "randomly" drop the "Whirlpool washing machine" stuff in conversation. As far as I was told everyone else controlled the experiment just as I did. We even tried to make sure the terms are "plausible" given all other data the companies may have had on us. Age, social status, etc. We picked things where we're comfortably but not too obviously in the target audience (no "energy drink for student gamer" type thing).
buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
To my understanding, these smart speakers only phone home when you say the keyword, right? They aren't storing or sending everything they hear throughout the day. So the cases where this could be abused by police has to be small. Seems like it would likely be used to verify that someone was home when they said they were because they asked Alexa a question at that time. In other words, I don't think Amazon ever receives the "wrongthink" Alexa hears, unless you say it directly to Alexa.
- bergstromm466 6y ago
  > these smart speakers only phone home when you say the keyword, right? Without it being open source, there's no guarantee though?
  - TacticalTable 6y ago
    You can get a pretty good idea from power usage, storage, and internet usage. Unless there's multiple hidden revolutionary breakthroughs in speech transcription or compression, nothing unsavory is happening at scale.
    - bergstromm466 6y ago
      ...most didn't know about the Intel ME chip. A designated onboard black-box chip for transcriptions, that doesn't rely on an a server, would seriously benefit tech corps Would it really be the first time we were lied to/surveilled? When will we stop giving the hyper-growth oriented Silicon Valley startup world the benefit of the doubt?
- qu4ku 6y ago
  The thing is it doesn't need to record anything (to spy on you). Voice recognition is 'on' all the time as it needs to recognise 'keyword'. All you need then is simple transcription into text.
  - hammock 6y ago
kemiller2002 6y ago
I'm not saying you're wrong. Here was always my take on having them. They are an indicator that someone might be listening. Everything can listen now, you're phone, your computer, your tv. Heck even your car. Things most people don't think about. I find them to be fun gadgets that I use and make life more convenient in certain things. I also keep them around for another reason. Everyone knows they have mics that listen. To me they are also a visual indicator that something you might say could be recorded. In 1984, they got caught because they thought no one could hear them. That was their mistake. What I learned from it (well ok many things), but what that taught me is to be careful if you are going to do something you shouldn't. Never assume that someone isn't watching when you're doing something illegal. I'm just posting signs for everyone else in the house, this area isn't secure.
- staplers 6y ago
  This is exactly the type usage of unnecessary surveillance devices and subsequent attitude (chilling effect) that is the problem.
davidwparker 6y ago
We use them extensively in our house- but we listen to music with them 95% of the time, and having multiple groups makes it easy to do. That, and lists (shopping list, costco list, etc), are our two main uses. I hardly ask it the weather, and only use it as a kitchen timer 1/3 the time too.
segmondy 6y ago
I use them to play music. I can ask it to tell me who the artist/track is. I use it as a radio, I can play FM stations around the country. I use it to set a timer, countdown, alarm. I use it for a calendar. I ask it to read bedtime stories, or to entertain the kids, what sound does a horse make, etc. You can do a lot with it, but it's really worrisome too. Sometimes I turn it off, but I hate that I have to walk over to it. I'll like a switch I can control from my phone or an external device...

by jcadam 6y ago

AftHurrahWinch 6y ago

Have you taken any steps to disable the always-on microphone in your smartphone?

sildur 6y ago
Could you please provide a guide or directions on how to do it for a Samsung or an iPhone cellphone?
- bergstromm466 6y ago
  Step 1.) buy PinePhone.
- WiseWeasel 6y ago
  For iPhone, go to Settings -> Siri & Search and ensure ‘Listen for “Hey Siri”’ is toggled off.
r00fus 6y ago
Hell yes. No phones allowed in my house with Siri or Google always-on. No echo/googlehome/etc allowed. Of course you can't completely trust it. But make it hard for them.

thisisnico 6y ago

My Amazon Alexa Listens to conversations to suggest items to purchase the next time I go on amazon. I hate this. Also I pretty much only use it to listen to the radio.

zepto 6y ago
How do you know this?
- buran77 6y ago
  I did a very non-scientific and possibly irrelevant test. Together with a few other people we decided to "test" some smart assistants and phones+app combinations to see if any of the data they might collect leaks. We came up with some random but easily identifiable keywords that we'd normally never use in day to day conversation and consistently dropped them in fake conversations. I tested an Echo Dot with "Whirlpool washing machine". Others tested Google home, or the Android Facebook app. Bottom line is that Amazon and Facebook somehow decided to show exactly the random stuff we fed them. None of the stuff fed to Google, Microsoft, or Apple ever made it out in an obvious enough way for us to notice it. It's not something to draw a solid conclusion on, I'm sure the experiment had plenty of flaws but the degree of suspicion it raised was way above the noise floor and it was enough for me personally.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Are you certain that nobody searched for those keywords or entered them anywhere? If I search for something, it immediately shows up in the facebook feed of the person I live with. We aren’t even friends on facebook. However we share an IP address via NAT, and I’m sure location data has leaked enough to correlate us. I have never yet come across an example of this where there aren’t correlating variables other than the always listening mic theory.
    - buran77 6y ago
      I'm as confident as I can be that the chosen keywords were never spoken in casual conversation (especially since none of us speak English around the house) or searched from that IP. Every mobile device in the household is permanently connected to my network via VPN. The entire Amazon usage is comprised of 2 browsers on 2 different PCs. The Echo was used just as an experiment (came as a freebie) and spent most of its time hearing me "randomly" drop the "Whirlpool washing machine" stuff in conversation. As far as I was told everyone else controlled the experiment just as I did. We even tried to make sure the terms are "plausible" given all other data the companies may have had on us. Age, social status, etc. We picked things where we're comfortably but not too obviously in the target audience (no "energy drink for student gamer" type thing).

buzzerbetrayed 6y ago

To my understanding, these smart speakers only phone home when you say the keyword, right? They aren't storing or sending everything they hear throughout the day. So the cases where this could be abused by police has to be small. Seems like it would likely be used to verify that someone was home when they said they were because they asked Alexa a question at that time. In other words, I don't think Amazon ever receives the "wrongthink" Alexa hears, unless you say it directly to Alexa.

bergstromm466 6y ago
> these smart speakers only phone home when you say the keyword, right? Without it being open source, there's no guarantee though?
- TacticalTable 6y ago
  You can get a pretty good idea from power usage, storage, and internet usage. Unless there's multiple hidden revolutionary breakthroughs in speech transcription or compression, nothing unsavory is happening at scale.
  - bergstromm466 6y ago
    ...most didn't know about the Intel ME chip. A designated onboard black-box chip for transcriptions, that doesn't rely on an a server, would seriously benefit tech corps Would it really be the first time we were lied to/surveilled? When will we stop giving the hyper-growth oriented Silicon Valley startup world the benefit of the doubt?
qu4ku 6y ago
The thing is it doesn't need to record anything (to spy on you). Voice recognition is 'on' all the time as it needs to recognise 'keyword'. All you need then is simple transcription into text.
- hammock 6y ago

kemiller2002 6y ago

I'm not saying you're wrong. Here was always my take on having them. They are an indicator that someone might be listening. Everything can listen now, you're phone, your computer, your tv. Heck even your car. Things most people don't think about. I find them to be fun gadgets that I use and make life more convenient in certain things. I also keep them around for another reason. Everyone knows they have mics that listen. To me they are also a visual indicator that something you might say could be recorded. In 1984, they got caught because they thought no one could hear them. That was their mistake. What I learned from it (well ok many things), but what that taught me is to be careful if you are going to do something you shouldn't. Never assume that someone isn't watching when you're doing something illegal. I'm just posting signs for everyone else in the house, this area isn't secure.

staplers 6y ago
This is exactly the type usage of unnecessary surveillance devices and subsequent attitude (chilling effect) that is the problem.

davidwparker 6y ago

We use them extensively in our house- but we listen to music with them 95% of the time, and having multiple groups makes it easy to do. That, and lists (shopping list, costco list, etc), are our two main uses. I hardly ask it the weather, and only use it as a kitchen timer 1/3 the time too.

segmondy 6y ago

I use them to play music. I can ask it to tell me who the artist/track is. I use it as a radio, I can play FM stations around the country. I use it to set a timer, countdown, alarm. I use it for a calendar. I ask it to read bedtime stories, or to entertain the kids, what sound does a horse make, etc. You can do a lot with it, but it's really worrisome too. Sometimes I turn it off, but I hate that I have to walk over to it. I'll like a switch I can control from my phone or an external device...