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F1 technology is a lot more than just power-trains, I wish people would understand that better. Fuel chemistry, aerodynamics, functional simulation, driver erg

by serf 6y ago

F1 technology is a lot more than just power-trains, I wish people would understand that better. Fuel chemistry, aerodynamics, functional simulation, driver ergonomics, safety dynamics, tire chemistry, metallurgy, analytics, data recording, composites, suspension, real-time telemetry and communication, digital systems management.. the list goes on forever. If the device/technique/procedure wasn't invented by F1, it was made better by it, and tons of it have trickled down to consumer products in the past 70+ years.

CWuestefeld 6y ago
Anybody in tech, and especially information technology, should be able to find something fascinating in F1. Winning an F1 race requires a huge amount of data processing, both for the operation of the race car itself, as well as for the simulations of race strategy in realtime. The teams bring enormous amounts of equipment to each race. Obviously a lot of that equipment is wrenches, screwdrivers, and related machinery. But every team is bringing essentially a portable datacenter to each race: The car has around 300 sensors and the SECU monitors over 4,000 parameters. During the course of a typical race the car will transmit around 3 GB of telemetry data as well as around 4 GB of logging, however this is just the seed for computation. When processed and combined with other sources such as audio and video analysis it can mean a team leaves a typical race weekend with over a terabyte of valuable data — data that is drawn on again and again before and during future events and seasons. -- https://www.eetimes.com/the-importance-of-electronics-in-formula-1/ https://www.eetimes.com/the-importance-of-electronics-in-for...
- jimbokun 6y ago
  Any good books on F1 technology, data processing or otherwise?
  - dharmab 6y ago
    A lot of it is proprietary and kept secret from other teams. Diagnostic monitors and even the back of the steering wheel are censored in official media. Chain Bear F1 is a YouTube channel that produces good summaries from public information.
  - wastedhours 6y ago
    Not books, but Racecar Engineering magazine [0] is a fantastic source, as is Craig Scarborough [1] for little nuggets of current developments. [0] https://www.racecar-engineering.com/ https://www.racecar-engineering.com/ [1] https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech
  - exDM69 6y ago
    Try Adrian Newey's ghost written memoir "How to Build a Car". It's not a deep dive into technological tidbits, but has got some interesting details about the technology and the development of his cars. To those not familiar, Adrian Newey, currently at Red Bull Racing, is the most successful race car designer by almost any metric. His first championship winning cars were designed in the 1980s (for American racing series), and he's built championship winning cars for Williams, McLaren and Red Bull.
    - TheCondor 6y ago
      How did you digest that book? I admire the heck out of his accomplishments but he seems like maybe not such a great person. Not sure he’d be an interesting dinner guest. All the anti-social stuff of a top sportsman but in a position where he simply doesn’t age out of it and have to be a normal person. Not a bad guy, per se, but not someone who’s life you want your to emulate. Very interesting read, especially about the dynamics. Winning teams have a focus, they don’t run well by committees (look at Ferrari) the difference between a championship and average season is often in the margins and the spaces between the “rules.”
      - exDM69 6y ago
        I liked the book, but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't get along as friends and I definitely would not want to work for him. I might be all wrong with this, but it's the impression I got from his book.
  - andrewf 6y ago
    I enjoyed https://www.amazon.com/Formula-Technology-Peter-G-Wright/dp/0768002346 https://www.amazon.com/Formula-Technology-Peter-G-Wright/dp/... but it's focused on the mechanical rather than the data stuff. As a non-MechE I enjoyed it in the same way I enjoyed Ignition! as a non-chemist.
- ll931110 6y ago
  Even cheats in F1 are brilliant by engineering standard. Look at how Ferrari (allegedly) circumvent the fuel flow limit by aliasing techniques. https://motorsport.tech/formula-1/fuel-flow-gate-did-ferrari-attempt-to-trick-the-system-and-if-so-how-could-it-be-done https://motorsport.tech/formula-1/fuel-flow-gate-did-ferrari...
- modoc 6y ago
  While not F1, I did get to check out the garage of a Nascar team and was blown away by the technology and engineering. The car has a ton of sensors recording all kinds of data, and they have a rig that can use that data to essentially put the car into the physical condition at any millisecond of a previous race, i.e. wheel and tire position, precise suspension loads, etc.. so they can physically examine the car/tires/etc.. at any moment in reply of the whole race. Extremely cool stuff!
- flavius29663 6y ago
  and not only that, but they do impose limits on how much they can use at each stage. I know for example that the computing power for the algorithms that generate the best shape for the best air flow are all equal among teams.
TylerE 6y ago
Really the aero and suspension is more impressive than the engine. You could stick a commodity pushrod V8 in there and make 1000hp easy with a bolt on turbo and run the same laptimes. Nothing else on earth is close to the aero.
- domlebo70 6y ago
  Is that really true though, when you factor in weight? A 1000hp LS based turbo engine for 150kg?
  - TylerE 6y ago
    A bit more than that, but LS motors are light for their power. Full street dress is about 210kg. I’m sure you could shed quite a bit of that right a way (you don’t need things like power steering or an alternator.)
    - VBprogrammer 6y ago
      My initial response to that was to snear at the idea of F1 engines with push rods. But in all honesty, you have to hand it to the old American V8, it is at a hell of a local maxima.
      - jabl 6y ago
        Limiting max rpm might also be one way to reduce F1 engine expense. A naturally aspirated engine with, say, a 10k max rpm limit.
- exDM69 6y ago
  > You could stick a commodity pushrod V8 in there and make 1000hp easy with a bolt on turbo and run the same laptimes. Here's the issue: the engine manufacturers are also one of the most important financial sponsors of the sport. You'd need to convince Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault to build obsolete engines and put down a big bag of money. And besides, you won't be able to fit a big V8 engine under the bodywork of a current-gen F1 car with the narrow coke bottle shape at the rear. The engines are also pretty damn impressive, running at 50%+ thermal efficiency. Ye olde pushrod V8 would run out of fuel at half race distance with current fuel regulations.

by serf 6y ago

CWuestefeld 6y ago

Anybody in tech, and especially information technology, should be able to find something fascinating in F1. Winning an F1 race requires a huge amount of data processing, both for the operation of the race car itself, as well as for the simulations of race strategy in realtime. The teams bring enormous amounts of equipment to each race. Obviously a lot of that equipment is wrenches, screwdrivers, and related machinery. But every team is bringing essentially a portable datacenter to each race: The car has around 300 sensors and the SECU monitors over 4,000 parameters. During the course of a typical race the car will transmit around 3 GB of telemetry data as well as around 4 GB of logging, however this is just the seed for computation. When processed and combined with other sources such as audio and video analysis it can mean a team leaves a typical race weekend with over a terabyte of valuable data — data that is drawn on again and again before and during future events and seasons. -- https://www.eetimes.com/the-importance-of-electronics-in-formula-1/ https://www.eetimes.com/the-importance-of-electronics-in-for...

jimbokun 6y ago
Any good books on F1 technology, data processing or otherwise?
- dharmab 6y ago
  A lot of it is proprietary and kept secret from other teams. Diagnostic monitors and even the back of the steering wheel are censored in official media. Chain Bear F1 is a YouTube channel that produces good summaries from public information.
- wastedhours 6y ago
  Not books, but Racecar Engineering magazine [0] is a fantastic source, as is Craig Scarborough [1] for little nuggets of current developments. [0] https://www.racecar-engineering.com/ https://www.racecar-engineering.com/ [1] https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech
- exDM69 6y ago
  Try Adrian Newey's ghost written memoir "How to Build a Car". It's not a deep dive into technological tidbits, but has got some interesting details about the technology and the development of his cars. To those not familiar, Adrian Newey, currently at Red Bull Racing, is the most successful race car designer by almost any metric. His first championship winning cars were designed in the 1980s (for American racing series), and he's built championship winning cars for Williams, McLaren and Red Bull.
  - TheCondor 6y ago
    How did you digest that book? I admire the heck out of his accomplishments but he seems like maybe not such a great person. Not sure he’d be an interesting dinner guest. All the anti-social stuff of a top sportsman but in a position where he simply doesn’t age out of it and have to be a normal person. Not a bad guy, per se, but not someone who’s life you want your to emulate. Very interesting read, especially about the dynamics. Winning teams have a focus, they don’t run well by committees (look at Ferrari) the difference between a championship and average season is often in the margins and the spaces between the “rules.”
    - exDM69 6y ago
      I liked the book, but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't get along as friends and I definitely would not want to work for him. I might be all wrong with this, but it's the impression I got from his book.
- andrewf 6y ago
  I enjoyed https://www.amazon.com/Formula-Technology-Peter-G-Wright/dp/0768002346 https://www.amazon.com/Formula-Technology-Peter-G-Wright/dp/... but it's focused on the mechanical rather than the data stuff. As a non-MechE I enjoyed it in the same way I enjoyed Ignition! as a non-chemist.
ll931110 6y ago
Even cheats in F1 are brilliant by engineering standard. Look at how Ferrari (allegedly) circumvent the fuel flow limit by aliasing techniques. https://motorsport.tech/formula-1/fuel-flow-gate-did-ferrari-attempt-to-trick-the-system-and-if-so-how-could-it-be-done https://motorsport.tech/formula-1/fuel-flow-gate-did-ferrari...
modoc 6y ago
While not F1, I did get to check out the garage of a Nascar team and was blown away by the technology and engineering. The car has a ton of sensors recording all kinds of data, and they have a rig that can use that data to essentially put the car into the physical condition at any millisecond of a previous race, i.e. wheel and tire position, precise suspension loads, etc.. so they can physically examine the car/tires/etc.. at any moment in reply of the whole race. Extremely cool stuff!
flavius29663 6y ago
and not only that, but they do impose limits on how much they can use at each stage. I know for example that the computing power for the algorithms that generate the best shape for the best air flow are all equal among teams.

TylerE 6y ago

Really the aero and suspension is more impressive than the engine. You could stick a commodity pushrod V8 in there and make 1000hp easy with a bolt on turbo and run the same laptimes. Nothing else on earth is close to the aero.

domlebo70 6y ago
Is that really true though, when you factor in weight? A 1000hp LS based turbo engine for 150kg?
- TylerE 6y ago
  A bit more than that, but LS motors are light for their power. Full street dress is about 210kg. I’m sure you could shed quite a bit of that right a way (you don’t need things like power steering or an alternator.)
  - VBprogrammer 6y ago
    My initial response to that was to snear at the idea of F1 engines with push rods. But in all honesty, you have to hand it to the old American V8, it is at a hell of a local maxima.
    - jabl 6y ago
      Limiting max rpm might also be one way to reduce F1 engine expense. A naturally aspirated engine with, say, a 10k max rpm limit.
exDM69 6y ago
> You could stick a commodity pushrod V8 in there and make 1000hp easy with a bolt on turbo and run the same laptimes. Here's the issue: the engine manufacturers are also one of the most important financial sponsors of the sport. You'd need to convince Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault to build obsolete engines and put down a big bag of money. And besides, you won't be able to fit a big V8 engine under the bodywork of a current-gen F1 car with the narrow coke bottle shape at the rear. The engines are also pretty damn impressive, running at 50%+ thermal efficiency. Ye olde pushrod V8 would run out of fuel at half race distance with current fuel regulations.