5 ms·

And why shouldn't the media widely publicize how Apple goes the extra mile to ruin the environment?

supernova87a 6y ago
Why doesn't the media publicize how the laws and Congress are failing to protect the environment? Why blame the companies that are simply acting according to the rulebook they've been given? You're outraged at the wrong party. And no subtle shaming of one company is going to change the incentives that govern 1000s of others.
- amelius 6y ago
  > Why doesn't the media publicize how the laws and Congress are failing to protect the environment? Why blame the companies that are simply acting according to the rulebook they've been given? Because finding the laws that protect the environment is much harder than seeking the limits of the law?
dahart 6y ago
Aren't you making just completely wild speculation here? Isn't it possible that actively recycling those devices is far better for the environment than allowing them to be resold to China and/or end up in landfill? I thought Apple had one of the better records on the environment of all the computer manufacturers. Are you aware of reasons to believe otherwise?
- rbecker 6y ago
  > Isn't it possible that actively recycling those devices is far better for the environment than allowing them to be resold to China and/or end up in landfill? In one scenario, a device keeps being used, it just changes hands. In another, it is recycled, using up energy and materials into making new products out of it, and throwing away what can't be salvaged. And you think it's wild speculation to claim the first scenario is less taxing on the environment than the second? Oh but it's explained by the completely sensible deduction that, if you sell someone a working device, they might throw it in a landfill. Why is the 2nd owner more likely to landfill it than the 1st? Does Apple vet buyers for environmentalism before it'll sell phones to them?
  - dahart 6y ago
    Indeed I do see your argument as wild speculation. Apple sells refurbished devices. There’s a reason Apple isn’t reselling the devices it sent to GEEP. You have no idea why these devices were tagged for recycling, no idea what condition they were in, no idea who they’re being sold to, no idea how long they’d last, and no idea what would happen to them afterward. Your first “scenario” completely ignored what happens after a resold device’s life ends. In a third scenario, the devices are sold overseas to people who recycle less often than Americans. In a fourth scenario, they’re sold to business that are tearing the devices apart, pulling out a couple of tiny components and scrapping everything else. > Why is the 2nd owner more likely to landfill it than the 1st? This question is irrelevant because 100% of the devices that ended up at GEEP were supposed to be recycled, contractually. If there’s any non-zero chance at all that the second owner won’t recycle, then it’s guaranteed that more devices will end up in landfill due to GEEP breaking it’s contract and illegally reselling used devices. I see you didn’t bother to address my question why you think Apple has a bad record on the environment, compared to other companies that make similar products. I realize their environmental responsibility report is part marketing, yet they have in fact been putting some of their money where their mouth is. Some manufacturers don’t produce any such reports, and haven’t bothered to even try to make their products recyclable. https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Progress_Report_2020.pdf https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Pr...
    - rbecker 6y ago
      > Your first “scenario” completely ignored what happens after a resold device’s life ends. Why would anything different happen to a "resold" than a "sold" device? Is there any market that Apple doesn't sell to because their consumers don't recycle enough? No, there is not, and I am beyond tired of dealing with the pretzel-like contortions of reasoning you twist yourself into to believe continued use of a device is somehow more harmful than stripping it for parts, for the sole reason that money changed hands without Apple getting their cut. And whether Apple on the whole is better for the environment than other companies is a different question than whether this practice is bad. But with introducing wasteful technologies like AirPods, soldering SSDs and RAM to motherboards, and fight against right to repair, I'll take their environmentalism with a massive grain of salt.

Why doesn't the media publicize how the laws and Congress are failing to protect the environment? Why blame the companies that are simply acting according to the rulebook they've been given? You're outraged at the wrong party. And no subtle shaming of one company is going to change the incentives that govern 1000s of others.

amelius 6y ago
> Why doesn't the media publicize how the laws and Congress are failing to protect the environment? Why blame the companies that are simply acting according to the rulebook they've been given? Because finding the laws that protect the environment is much harder than seeking the limits of the law?

dahart 6y ago

Aren't you making just completely wild speculation here? Isn't it possible that actively recycling those devices is far better for the environment than allowing them to be resold to China and/or end up in landfill? I thought Apple had one of the better records on the environment of all the computer manufacturers. Are you aware of reasons to believe otherwise?

rbecker 6y ago
> Isn't it possible that actively recycling those devices is far better for the environment than allowing them to be resold to China and/or end up in landfill? In one scenario, a device keeps being used, it just changes hands. In another, it is recycled, using up energy and materials into making new products out of it, and throwing away what can't be salvaged. And you think it's wild speculation to claim the first scenario is less taxing on the environment than the second? Oh but it's explained by the completely sensible deduction that, if you sell someone a working device, they might throw it in a landfill. Why is the 2nd owner more likely to landfill it than the 1st? Does Apple vet buyers for environmentalism before it'll sell phones to them?
- dahart 6y ago
  Indeed I do see your argument as wild speculation. Apple sells refurbished devices. There’s a reason Apple isn’t reselling the devices it sent to GEEP. You have no idea why these devices were tagged for recycling, no idea what condition they were in, no idea who they’re being sold to, no idea how long they’d last, and no idea what would happen to them afterward. Your first “scenario” completely ignored what happens after a resold device’s life ends. In a third scenario, the devices are sold overseas to people who recycle less often than Americans. In a fourth scenario, they’re sold to business that are tearing the devices apart, pulling out a couple of tiny components and scrapping everything else. > Why is the 2nd owner more likely to landfill it than the 1st? This question is irrelevant because 100% of the devices that ended up at GEEP were supposed to be recycled, contractually. If there’s any non-zero chance at all that the second owner won’t recycle, then it’s guaranteed that more devices will end up in landfill due to GEEP breaking it’s contract and illegally reselling used devices. I see you didn’t bother to address my question why you think Apple has a bad record on the environment, compared to other companies that make similar products. I realize their environmental responsibility report is part marketing, yet they have in fact been putting some of their money where their mouth is. Some manufacturers don’t produce any such reports, and haven’t bothered to even try to make their products recyclable. https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Progress_Report_2020.pdf https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Pr...
  - rbecker 6y ago
    > Your first “scenario” completely ignored what happens after a resold device’s life ends. Why would anything different happen to a "resold" than a "sold" device? Is there any market that Apple doesn't sell to because their consumers don't recycle enough? No, there is not, and I am beyond tired of dealing with the pretzel-like contortions of reasoning you twist yourself into to believe continued use of a device is somehow more harmful than stripping it for parts, for the sole reason that money changed hands without Apple getting their cut. And whether Apple on the whole is better for the environment than other companies is a different question than whether this practice is bad. But with introducing wasteful technologies like AirPods, soldering SSDs and RAM to motherboards, and fight against right to repair, I'll take their environmentalism with a massive grain of salt.