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"Don't we generally know that we need to do more prescribed fire burning?" Yes. "Isn't this generally highjacked by the timber industry to protect valuable "p

by rsync 6y ago

"Don't we generally know that we need to do more prescribed fire burning?" Yes. "Isn't this generally highjacked by the timber industry to protect valuable "product?"" No, I don't believe that to be the case. Broadly speaking, prescribed burns are thwarted by a mix of local objections to smoke, noise and traffic ... and environmental objections relating to specific watersheds, protected species and (literally) individual birds that are witnessed in the burn area.[1] Remember: this is California - these people didn't move here to not have their very, very specific voice, and preferences, heard and respected. (I kid because I love) "But these massive fires over the last month are approaching that million acre number: does anyone know if next year we will be safer because of those fires?" I can't speak to "safer" but, absolutely there will be less fuel to burn next year. Almost the entire land area of Napa County has burned this year. I suspect they can skate for many decades on this (rapid, violent) fuels reduction. Personally, as the owner of 25-ish acres of wooded land in this area (Marin County), I am not waiting. We are simulating fire by dramatically reducing fuel loads on our lands. I am assuming these forests will burn and trying to reduce the speed and intensity of that eventual fire. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/08/26/a-trailblazing-plan-to-fight-california-wildfires https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/08/26/a-trailblazing...

dfsegoat 6y ago
> Personally, as the owner of 25-ish acres of wooded land in this area (Marin County), I am not waiting. We are simulating fire by dramatically reducing fuel loads on our lands. As a lifelong sonoma county resident, curious why were you not managing fuels already? It's a duty to your neighbors. CalFire is very aggressive up here in certain areas, and will red tag your property if it gets past a point. > "No, I don't believe that to be the case. Broadly speaking, prescribed burns are thwarted by a mix of local objections to smoke, noise and traffic" Can confirm this for Sonoma County, CA. They used to burn a lot when I was young. Not much anymore, mostly because of the $$$ moving up here and they have no understanding of the need for it. Well, this is the alternative. Also, a lot of land is private.
- noodlenotes 6y ago
  Nothing in their comment says they weren't managing fuels already. They may have decided to go beyond the standard requirements after seeing the increasing fire risk in recent years.
sgc 6y ago
Unfortunately it's not as clear that fire risk is lowered by a one off burn. There are then many dead trees that are tinder in the coming seasons. Prescribed burns work when they are regular and done in a less damaging season like spring where they burn slower due to plant moisture content etc, and hopefully kill fewer trees.
joe_the_user 6y ago
No, I don't believe that to be the case. Broadly speaking, prescribed burns are thwarted by a mix of local objections to smoke, noise and traffic ... and environmental objections relating to specific watersheds, protected species and (literally) individual birds that are witnessed in the burn area And much of the later "environmental objections" are hijacked by the former Nimby forces, while the right wing uses this phony environmentalism to point the rural folks at the left instead of real estate and development interests that drive all this.
dreamcompiler 6y ago
Firefighter here. Parent is correct. Prescribed burns do not damage big trees; they deprive the forest floor of fuel buildup that -- if it accumulates and burns out of control -- does destroy large trees.
- dayaz36 6y ago
  Didn't California just pass legislation that calls for cutting down trees in forests to make them more "spread out"? This is where they lose me. The reason why wildfires exist in the first place is because of climate change; deforestation is the opposite of fighting climate change. Very strange California taking a cue out of Trump's climate change denying book.
  - dreamcompiler 6y ago
    > deforestation is the opposite of fighting climate change. Yes and no. One of the features of climate change is that some wet areas become deserts while some currently-dry areas become wet. Planting trees in an area becoming desert (like California) will only encourage the inevitable disastrous burn. Planting trees in an area becoming wetter would do a great deal of good. Those trees are likely to survive to scrub CO2.
  - me_againnnnnn 6y ago
    Stop with this "wildfires exist because of climate change" nonsense. Utter nonsense that helps nothing.
silexia 6y ago
Vital missed point from the bottom of the article- Jack Cohen is a retired U.S. Forest Service Research fire scientist who has spent years determining how structures ignite during extreme wildfires. In a September 21, 2020 article he wrote for Wildfire Today with Dave Strohmaier, they addressed how homes ignite during extreme wildfires. “Surprisingly, research has shown that home ignitions during extreme wildfires result from conditions local to a home. A home’s ignition vulnerabilities in relation to nearby burning materials within 100 feet principally determine home ignitions. This area of a home and its immediate surroundings is called the home ignition zone (HIZ). Typically, lofted burning embers initiate ignitions within the HIZ – to homes directly and nearby flammables leading to homes. Although an intense wildfire can loft firebrands more than one-half mile to start fires, the minuscule local conditions where the burning embers land and accumulate determine ignitions. Importantly, most home destruction during extreme wildfires occurs hours after the wildfire has ceased intense burning near the community; the residential fuels – homes, other structures, and vegetation – continue fire spread within the community. “Uncontrollable extreme wildfires are inevitable, however, by reducing home ignition potential within the HIZ we can create ignition resistant homes and communities. Thus, community wildfire risk should be defined as a home ignition problem, not a wildfire control problem.”

by rsync 6y ago

dfsegoat 6y ago

> Personally, as the owner of 25-ish acres of wooded land in this area (Marin County), I am not waiting. We are simulating fire by dramatically reducing fuel loads on our lands. As a lifelong sonoma county resident, curious why were you not managing fuels already? It's a duty to your neighbors. CalFire is very aggressive up here in certain areas, and will red tag your property if it gets past a point. > "No, I don't believe that to be the case. Broadly speaking, prescribed burns are thwarted by a mix of local objections to smoke, noise and traffic" Can confirm this for Sonoma County, CA. They used to burn a lot when I was young. Not much anymore, mostly because of the $$$ moving up here and they have no understanding of the need for it. Well, this is the alternative. Also, a lot of land is private.

noodlenotes 6y ago
Nothing in their comment says they weren't managing fuels already. They may have decided to go beyond the standard requirements after seeing the increasing fire risk in recent years.

sgc 6y ago

Unfortunately it's not as clear that fire risk is lowered by a one off burn. There are then many dead trees that are tinder in the coming seasons. Prescribed burns work when they are regular and done in a less damaging season like spring where they burn slower due to plant moisture content etc, and hopefully kill fewer trees.

joe_the_user 6y ago

No, I don't believe that to be the case. Broadly speaking, prescribed burns are thwarted by a mix of local objections to smoke, noise and traffic ... and environmental objections relating to specific watersheds, protected species and (literally) individual birds that are witnessed in the burn area And much of the later "environmental objections" are hijacked by the former Nimby forces, while the right wing uses this phony environmentalism to point the rural folks at the left instead of real estate and development interests that drive all this.

dreamcompiler 6y ago

Firefighter here. Parent is correct. Prescribed burns do not damage big trees; they deprive the forest floor of fuel buildup that -- if it accumulates and burns out of control -- does destroy large trees.

dayaz36 6y ago
Didn't California just pass legislation that calls for cutting down trees in forests to make them more "spread out"? This is where they lose me. The reason why wildfires exist in the first place is because of climate change; deforestation is the opposite of fighting climate change. Very strange California taking a cue out of Trump's climate change denying book.
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
  > deforestation is the opposite of fighting climate change. Yes and no. One of the features of climate change is that some wet areas become deserts while some currently-dry areas become wet. Planting trees in an area becoming desert (like California) will only encourage the inevitable disastrous burn. Planting trees in an area becoming wetter would do a great deal of good. Those trees are likely to survive to scrub CO2.
- me_againnnnnn 6y ago
  Stop with this "wildfires exist because of climate change" nonsense. Utter nonsense that helps nothing.

silexia 6y ago

Vital missed point from the bottom of the article- Jack Cohen is a retired U.S. Forest Service Research fire scientist who has spent years determining how structures ignite during extreme wildfires. In a September 21, 2020 article he wrote for Wildfire Today with Dave Strohmaier, they addressed how homes ignite during extreme wildfires. “Surprisingly, research has shown that home ignitions during extreme wildfires result from conditions local to a home. A home’s ignition vulnerabilities in relation to nearby burning materials within 100 feet principally determine home ignitions. This area of a home and its immediate surroundings is called the home ignition zone (HIZ). Typically, lofted burning embers initiate ignitions within the HIZ – to homes directly and nearby flammables leading to homes. Although an intense wildfire can loft firebrands more than one-half mile to start fires, the minuscule local conditions where the burning embers land and accumulate determine ignitions. Importantly, most home destruction during extreme wildfires occurs hours after the wildfire has ceased intense burning near the community; the residential fuels – homes, other structures, and vegetation – continue fire spread within the community. “Uncontrollable extreme wildfires are inevitable, however, by reducing home ignition potential within the HIZ we can create ignition resistant homes and communities. Thus, community wildfire risk should be defined as a home ignition problem, not a wildfire control problem.”