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Meanwhile this kind of dancing around the issue will piss me off, though I don't usually respond so. If there's a bug, tell me what happened, what you expected

Meanwhile this kind of dancing around the issue will piss me off, though I don't usually respond so. If there's a bug, tell me what happened, what you expected, what your config/environment looks like, and if it's a library a minimal code example that triggers the bug. I don't need to hear about how your grandmother's favorite chili recipe saved your uncle's best friend's life when he was trapped in the Siberian wilderness after going on the run from the Malaysian government. Just tell me how to make the damn chili.

GordonS 6y ago
I take your point, and I wouldn't want to read through reams of frivolity either - but there really wasn't anything like that in my example; it's 1 or 2 like saying "thanks", and then my example included all of the stuff you asked for.
- reificator 6y ago
  Yeah it was probably an unfair segway into a pet issue of mine, sorry.
- Vinnl 6y ago
  Yeah, there's a difference between sharing your life story and a quick thank you, and if I have to take into account people who get offended by being thanked, then I wouldn't be able to communicate at all anymore. You can't please everyone, and erring on the side of being too polite on average has worked pretty well so far for me.
eloff 6y ago
If you like using my software and it makes your life better in some way, I absolutely want to hear that - it will help keep me motivated the next time working on it feels like a chore.
- chii 6y ago
  I think the thank you messages could be separate from the bug reports (which should be sterile and 100% tonally neutral). One possible way to separate it is to have thank you messages on twitter. It will also help promote the project, where as these messages in bug reports will get buried and lost and no one else is gonna see it.
  - reificator 6y ago
    Thank you, if I had expressed it this way I don't think I'd have riled as many feathers but this is exactly my stance. (apart from specifically Twitter)
- WalterBright 6y ago
  We love hearing about that in the D forums. But in bug database submissions, just the facts, Ma'am. P.S. I have several letters from Empire users who reported that the game caused them to flunk out of college and/or get divorced. I'm not sure if they were complimenting or complaining :-/
brigandish 6y ago
> I don't need to hear about how your grandmother's favorite chili recipe saved your uncle's best friend's life when he was trapped in the Siberian wilderness after going on the run from the Malaysian government. Just tell me how to make the damn chili. The template given was nothing like that, at all. Regardless, I firmly believe that this attitude is keeping many people out of the tech business, let alone open source. Society shows that niceties are wanted and work, especially by women, a demographic under-represented in most parts of tech. I also find that not showing niceties is a display of dominance and self-importance, again, something that isn't going to bring more people into tech. I can give a pass to Linus Torvalds and those under time pressure. I doubt any of the devs here commenting on HN are able to make either of those claims.
- reificator 6y ago
  > The template given was nothing like that, at all. That's fair, I waded in to discuss a related pet issue and it's probably not fair to have posted the way I did. > Regardless, I firmly believe that this attitude is keeping many people out of the tech business, let alone open source. Society shows that niceties are wanted and work, especially by women, a demographic under-represented in most parts of tech. I also find that not showing niceties is a display of dominance and self-importance, again, something that isn't going to bring more people into tech. Let's start with the part where I said "though I don't usually respond so." It irritates me, but I tolerate it because my goal is to help people. As for not having space for stories/niceties driving away women, I don't walk into the emergency room and think "man, this is a sausage fest". Usually there are vastly more women working there than men. Yet from discussions I've had with people who work in that area this is a common frustration there as well. "You're bleeding, I don't need to hear about how depressed you've been since your grades are poor, fast forward to the part where you slipped while drunk and fell onto a broken beer bottle so I know what kind of treatment to administer." That's a made up example but is actually less ridiculous than the actual examples I've heard. I'm not saying to leave out relevant details, but when you're bleeding or have broken bones or your left side is going numb, just tell the doctor the facts, as concisely and as clearly as you can. If you want to tell stories, go to your primary doctor when you're not facing an emergency. Or, and this is not dismissive so please don't interpret it as such, go to a therapist, or a councilor. A bug report on an issue tracker is obviously not life threatening in the vast vast majority of cases, but it's the same idea. It's where you go when things are broken, so tell me what's broken and the relevant context. If you want to give thanks or talk about what you like or how you get value from the project or whatever, there are other venues for that and I encourage you to use them. Or put it at the end of the issue thread after the problem is at least identified. I've never been upset at someone for clearly expressing the problem and then saying thanks when I fix or acknowledge it. EDIT: > I also find that not showing niceties is a display of dominance and self-importance, again, something that isn't going to bring more people into tech. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to turn a focus on helping people as quickly as possible into "a display of dominance and self-importance". I'm specifically asking people to not kiss my ass about "how much this project helped them during a dark time in their life" or whatever so I can get to the root of the problem they're encountering and resolve it. It's incredibly bad faith to claim that trying to be efficient with my volunteered time so I can help as many people as possible is an attempt to dominate the people I'm helping. Frankly this sentence makes me question your motives here. Had I taken this sentence in earlier I wouldn't have responded to your post at all.
erik_seaberg 6y ago
Allegedly search engines rank the story higher than the recipe by itself. But that doesn't extend to bug reports.

GordonS 6y ago

I take your point, and I wouldn't want to read through reams of frivolity either - but there really wasn't anything like that in my example; it's 1 or 2 like saying "thanks", and then my example included all of the stuff you asked for.

reificator 6y ago
Yeah it was probably an unfair segway into a pet issue of mine, sorry.
Vinnl 6y ago
Yeah, there's a difference between sharing your life story and a quick thank you, and if I have to take into account people who get offended by being thanked, then I wouldn't be able to communicate at all anymore. You can't please everyone, and erring on the side of being too polite on average has worked pretty well so far for me.

eloff 6y ago

If you like using my software and it makes your life better in some way, I absolutely want to hear that - it will help keep me motivated the next time working on it feels like a chore.

chii 6y ago
I think the thank you messages could be separate from the bug reports (which should be sterile and 100% tonally neutral). One possible way to separate it is to have thank you messages on twitter. It will also help promote the project, where as these messages in bug reports will get buried and lost and no one else is gonna see it.
- reificator 6y ago
  Thank you, if I had expressed it this way I don't think I'd have riled as many feathers but this is exactly my stance. (apart from specifically Twitter)
WalterBright 6y ago
We love hearing about that in the D forums. But in bug database submissions, just the facts, Ma'am. P.S. I have several letters from Empire users who reported that the game caused them to flunk out of college and/or get divorced. I'm not sure if they were complimenting or complaining :-/

brigandish 6y ago

> I don't need to hear about how your grandmother's favorite chili recipe saved your uncle's best friend's life when he was trapped in the Siberian wilderness after going on the run from the Malaysian government. Just tell me how to make the damn chili. The template given was nothing like that, at all. Regardless, I firmly believe that this attitude is keeping many people out of the tech business, let alone open source. Society shows that niceties are wanted and work, especially by women, a demographic under-represented in most parts of tech. I also find that not showing niceties is a display of dominance and self-importance, again, something that isn't going to bring more people into tech. I can give a pass to Linus Torvalds and those under time pressure. I doubt any of the devs here commenting on HN are able to make either of those claims.

reificator 6y ago
> The template given was nothing like that, at all. That's fair, I waded in to discuss a related pet issue and it's probably not fair to have posted the way I did. > Regardless, I firmly believe that this attitude is keeping many people out of the tech business, let alone open source. Society shows that niceties are wanted and work, especially by women, a demographic under-represented in most parts of tech. I also find that not showing niceties is a display of dominance and self-importance, again, something that isn't going to bring more people into tech. Let's start with the part where I said "though I don't usually respond so." It irritates me, but I tolerate it because my goal is to help people. As for not having space for stories/niceties driving away women, I don't walk into the emergency room and think "man, this is a sausage fest". Usually there are vastly more women working there than men. Yet from discussions I've had with people who work in that area this is a common frustration there as well. "You're bleeding, I don't need to hear about how depressed you've been since your grades are poor, fast forward to the part where you slipped while drunk and fell onto a broken beer bottle so I know what kind of treatment to administer." That's a made up example but is actually less ridiculous than the actual examples I've heard. I'm not saying to leave out relevant details, but when you're bleeding or have broken bones or your left side is going numb, just tell the doctor the facts, as concisely and as clearly as you can. If you want to tell stories, go to your primary doctor when you're not facing an emergency. Or, and this is not dismissive so please don't interpret it as such, go to a therapist, or a councilor. A bug report on an issue tracker is obviously not life threatening in the vast vast majority of cases, but it's the same idea. It's where you go when things are broken, so tell me what's broken and the relevant context. If you want to give thanks or talk about what you like or how you get value from the project or whatever, there are other venues for that and I encourage you to use them. Or put it at the end of the issue thread after the problem is at least identified. I've never been upset at someone for clearly expressing the problem and then saying thanks when I fix or acknowledge it. EDIT: > I also find that not showing niceties is a display of dominance and self-importance, again, something that isn't going to bring more people into tech. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to turn a focus on helping people as quickly as possible into "a display of dominance and self-importance". I'm specifically asking people to not kiss my ass about "how much this project helped them during a dark time in their life" or whatever so I can get to the root of the problem they're encountering and resolve it. It's incredibly bad faith to claim that trying to be efficient with my volunteered time so I can help as many people as possible is an attempt to dominate the people I'm helping. Frankly this sentence makes me question your motives here. Had I taken this sentence in earlier I wouldn't have responded to your post at all.

erik_seaberg 6y ago

Allegedly search engines rank the story higher than the recipe by itself. But that doesn't extend to bug reports.