5 ms·

I welcome this. It will be messy, it will open oportunities to corruption, lobbying, crappy user experiences, unsafe apps, government abuse, nationalism, ... i

I welcome this. It will be messy, it will open oportunities to corruption, lobbying, crappy user experiences, unsafe apps, government abuse, nationalism, ... it is really a Pandora box. But mess can be a fertile ground for competition and innovation when excessive regulation blocks it. Today's app stores are just feature development labs for Apple & Google. There is no chance that anyone will be able to create a big business within any app store and keep Apple or Google out. Just ask big players as Steam, Facebook and Microsoft how they feel about Google's and Apple's stores. If you're in the apps development business then you're just looking for golden opportunities for Apple/Google and being very badly payed for that.

iamshs 6y ago
>The sources said, "Android has 97% market share in India so we should intervene and handhold Indian startups. Making it mandatory for Android phones to be pre-instaled with our apps in under consideration". [1] Indian Government being arbiter of the app ecosystem on a phone and pre installing apps? Ominous vibes. Good luck with your desire for competition and innovation. [1] - https://www.timesnownews.com/business-economy/industry/article/modi-govt-planning-to-launch-its-own-app-store-as-an-alternative-to-google-apples-app-stores/660806 https://www.timesnownews.com/business-economy/industry/artic...
- return1 6y ago
  So they are competing on same terms as google, in practice. Thats good
- paxys 6y ago
  I'd like to think the Indian government will have the interests of its own citizens at heart better than Google or Apple. India has a long and not very pleasant history with foreign corporations.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    Haha no. The Indian government will have the best interests of the ruling party at heart. I'd rather trust Google with all of my data, even the sensitive bits, rather than give even an iota to the government. And yes, I know how disgusting that sounds. In the Delhi riots early this year, the government used data gathered from the national database to track and arrest protesters. Imagine what they could do if they could track your phones. At least Google is only selling me real estate ads (woefully inaccurate ones too) and not actively trying to imprison me or my family (bonus points if you're a minority).
    - jagannathtech 6y ago
      Why you and your family are rioting?
      - jlokier 6y ago
        What makes you think they are? People can be justifiably afraid of the government without doing anything wrong, especially if the government has a track record of abusing tools at its disposal, enforcing unjust laws, or failing to maintain a good balance of civil rights (such as to peaceful protest - not the same as rioting) needed in a healthy democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument
      - fakedang 6y ago
        I'll ask you the same question when the INC is the ruling party, if there's still a democracy to play around with at the time. It could be any party at the center - the result would be horrid.
      - _jgdh 6y ago
        I flagged this comment for being obtuse and accusing a person of a crime when they just want privacy. Nor can they use ignorance as an excuse - they're Indian.
    - puranjay 6y ago
      If you're a tech entrepreneur, this should worry you regardless. Any industry that the Indian government meddles in eventually gets regulated to death. You have to pay bribes for X or Y license or permission. The tech industry thrived precisely because there is little regulation. If your apps have to go through the Indian government to be published, be prepared to pay bribes to pass through the regulatory hurdles and needless paperwork. No Indian government in my living memory has worked to reduce regulations and compliance, including the current one.
actuator 6y ago
I am just puzzled about one bit of this, why the hue and cry few days back about this. Don't Android App stores like the Amazon one already exist? What's stopping these devs to even distribute the apps themselves? iOS is a different matter but Android has always allowed this. Not sure if they exist in India, but I have seen Android phones come with non Google App Store as well.
- nradov 6y ago
  Yes alternative Android app stores already exist. For example Samsung devices have their own proprietary app store pre-loaded.
- raghavtoshniwal 6y ago
  Yeah alternate app stores exist but when something like this is driven from a nation stare, the Indian govt will most likely mandate inclusion of their AppStore on Android and iOS. Once it is loaded on by default, you suddenly gain 800 million strong distribution channel. It would be a no-brainer for devs to put their app on the strore. The same case could not have been made for Amazon's and Samsung's store.
  - PaulHoule 6y ago
    Won't Apple just refuse to sell iPhones in India?
    - surendrajat 6y ago
      No. It won't.
    - keanebean86 6y ago
      That would result in a somewhat strange situation considering Apple is trying to move at least some iPhone manufacturing to India. https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/17/indian-iphone-production-begins-as-apples-ambitions-ramp-up/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/17/indian-iphone-production-begi...
  - 6y ago
dheera 6y ago
The thing is, why would anyone voluntarily use a censored/restricted app store? For Apple hell yes, maybe their government app store will be less anal than Apple is with their own app store, and e.g. allow other payment channels and allow embedding other rendering engines than Safari. For Google though ... why wouldn't one just use the Google store instead? It's pretty open, and if their government's motive is to just create a subset of the Play store that doesn't have Chinese apps, why the hell would anyone use it? And if the government is forcing the entire population to use its app store -- do they have the authority to do that? I thought India was a democracy with free speech.
- arebhaibhai 6y ago
  >> It's pretty open I disagree. It's the quite opposite. So many popular apps don't even get a notice before getting banned, let alone small indie developers trying to get some users. >> why the hell would anyone use it? Not sure about others but I definetly don't want a US company to put nose in everything I do online. Plus I don't want to give a 30% cut for a regional app that I can publish on some local platform for local users. And I would rather deal with low quality apps than popular apps disappearing every now and then just because Google doesn't like them. >> do they have the authority to do that? Yes but it's not practical in country like India to enforce it. Free speech and what govt can regulate about internet are different things as far I've seen.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > I thought India was a democracy with free speech The First Amendment is radically unprecedented and unique, in its text, judicial upholding and cultural backing. While India technically has freedoms of speech, in practice it is heavily regulated [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression_in_Ind...
- hexbinencoded 6y ago
  You're confused. India has a populist, nationalist authoritarian who will stop at nothing to remodel the country somewhere between China and Nazi Germany. The Indian government can block all other app stores, require app developers and mobile OSes install spyware SDKs and turn over data about their users, and ban encryption. Then, the "subversives," academics, and journalists can be rounded-up.
Mupuff 6y ago
But big businesses have been created so it's not entirely true. Do you have any good examples where you think innovation has been stifled on the play store? (Apple's app store aside)
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  > big businesses have been created so it's not entirely true. examples?
  - zepto 6y ago
    Epic
    - michaelkariv 6y ago
      Epic has desktop alternative, tiktok is mobile only
  - throwawayinfo 6y ago
    Snapchat, Instagram, TikTok...
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      all vc-supported , with huge money. not exactly the "indie studie that made it big" type. But more importantly, those are a decade ago (and TikTok reportedly bought its users). At this point it doesnt seem there is any potential for making a profitable app company, the profit would be to be acquired
  - michaelkariv 6y ago
    Tiktok?
hexbinencoded 6y ago
You welcome nationalism, racism, xenophobia, control, censorship, fragmentation, and authoritarianism under some rhetorical nonsense about "competition" and "regulation?" Clear the earwax out of your eyes libertarian utopianist and wake the fuck up to what's happening in the world. Big Brother isn't a solution to inverted totalitarian corporate control of public commons, it's the beginning of the end of individual liberties that you clearly don't care about, all you see is hypothetical dollar signs/rupees and mission statements.
kelnos 6y ago
I welcome the idea that Apple should be required to allow third-party app stores, but the only end game I see with a government app store is a legally-mandated requirement to have that app store installed on all citizens'/residents' phones. At that point the phones just become extensions of the state's intelligence apparatus, and that's a net negative for everyone's privacy. Apple should certainly allow alternative app stores, and Google should make it easier and safer for customers to install alternative app stores, but I never want to see governments get into that market.

iamshs 6y ago

>The sources said, "Android has 97% market share in India so we should intervene and handhold Indian startups. Making it mandatory for Android phones to be pre-instaled with our apps in under consideration". [1] Indian Government being arbiter of the app ecosystem on a phone and pre installing apps? Ominous vibes. Good luck with your desire for competition and innovation. [1] - https://www.timesnownews.com/business-economy/industry/article/modi-govt-planning-to-launch-its-own-app-store-as-an-alternative-to-google-apples-app-stores/660806 https://www.timesnownews.com/business-economy/industry/artic...

return1 6y ago
So they are competing on same terms as google, in practice. Thats good
paxys 6y ago
I'd like to think the Indian government will have the interests of its own citizens at heart better than Google or Apple. India has a long and not very pleasant history with foreign corporations.
- fakedang 6y ago
  Haha no. The Indian government will have the best interests of the ruling party at heart. I'd rather trust Google with all of my data, even the sensitive bits, rather than give even an iota to the government. And yes, I know how disgusting that sounds. In the Delhi riots early this year, the government used data gathered from the national database to track and arrest protesters. Imagine what they could do if they could track your phones. At least Google is only selling me real estate ads (woefully inaccurate ones too) and not actively trying to imprison me or my family (bonus points if you're a minority).
  - jagannathtech 6y ago
    Why you and your family are rioting?
    - jlokier 6y ago
      What makes you think they are? People can be justifiably afraid of the government without doing anything wrong, especially if the government has a track record of abusing tools at its disposal, enforcing unjust laws, or failing to maintain a good balance of civil rights (such as to peaceful protest - not the same as rioting) needed in a healthy democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument
    - fakedang 6y ago
      I'll ask you the same question when the INC is the ruling party, if there's still a democracy to play around with at the time. It could be any party at the center - the result would be horrid.
    - _jgdh 6y ago
      I flagged this comment for being obtuse and accusing a person of a crime when they just want privacy. Nor can they use ignorance as an excuse - they're Indian.
  - puranjay 6y ago
    If you're a tech entrepreneur, this should worry you regardless. Any industry that the Indian government meddles in eventually gets regulated to death. You have to pay bribes for X or Y license or permission. The tech industry thrived precisely because there is little regulation. If your apps have to go through the Indian government to be published, be prepared to pay bribes to pass through the regulatory hurdles and needless paperwork. No Indian government in my living memory has worked to reduce regulations and compliance, including the current one.

actuator 6y ago

I am just puzzled about one bit of this, why the hue and cry few days back about this. Don't Android App stores like the Amazon one already exist? What's stopping these devs to even distribute the apps themselves? iOS is a different matter but Android has always allowed this. Not sure if they exist in India, but I have seen Android phones come with non Google App Store as well.

nradov 6y ago
Yes alternative Android app stores already exist. For example Samsung devices have their own proprietary app store pre-loaded.
raghavtoshniwal 6y ago
Yeah alternate app stores exist but when something like this is driven from a nation stare, the Indian govt will most likely mandate inclusion of their AppStore on Android and iOS. Once it is loaded on by default, you suddenly gain 800 million strong distribution channel. It would be a no-brainer for devs to put their app on the strore. The same case could not have been made for Amazon's and Samsung's store.
- PaulHoule 6y ago
  Won't Apple just refuse to sell iPhones in India?
  - surendrajat 6y ago
    No. It won't.
  - keanebean86 6y ago
    That would result in a somewhat strange situation considering Apple is trying to move at least some iPhone manufacturing to India. https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/17/indian-iphone-production-begins-as-apples-ambitions-ramp-up/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/17/indian-iphone-production-begi...
- 6y ago

dheera 6y ago

The thing is, why would anyone voluntarily use a censored/restricted app store? For Apple hell yes, maybe their government app store will be less anal than Apple is with their own app store, and e.g. allow other payment channels and allow embedding other rendering engines than Safari. For Google though ... why wouldn't one just use the Google store instead? It's pretty open, and if their government's motive is to just create a subset of the Play store that doesn't have Chinese apps, why the hell would anyone use it? And if the government is forcing the entire population to use its app store -- do they have the authority to do that? I thought India was a democracy with free speech.

arebhaibhai 6y ago
>> It's pretty open I disagree. It's the quite opposite. So many popular apps don't even get a notice before getting banned, let alone small indie developers trying to get some users. >> why the hell would anyone use it? Not sure about others but I definetly don't want a US company to put nose in everything I do online. Plus I don't want to give a 30% cut for a regional app that I can publish on some local platform for local users. And I would rather deal with low quality apps than popular apps disappearing every now and then just because Google doesn't like them. >> do they have the authority to do that? Yes but it's not practical in country like India to enforce it. Free speech and what govt can regulate about internet are different things as far I've seen.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> I thought India was a democracy with free speech The First Amendment is radically unprecedented and unique, in its text, judicial upholding and cultural backing. While India technically has freedoms of speech, in practice it is heavily regulated [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression_in_Ind...
hexbinencoded 6y ago
You're confused. India has a populist, nationalist authoritarian who will stop at nothing to remodel the country somewhere between China and Nazi Germany. The Indian government can block all other app stores, require app developers and mobile OSes install spyware SDKs and turn over data about their users, and ban encryption. Then, the "subversives," academics, and journalists can be rounded-up.

Mupuff 6y ago

But big businesses have been created so it's not entirely true. Do you have any good examples where you think innovation has been stifled on the play store? (Apple's app store aside)

cblconfederate 6y ago
> big businesses have been created so it's not entirely true. examples?
- zepto 6y ago
  Epic
  - michaelkariv 6y ago
    Epic has desktop alternative, tiktok is mobile only
- throwawayinfo 6y ago
  Snapchat, Instagram, TikTok...
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    all vc-supported , with huge money. not exactly the "indie studie that made it big" type. But more importantly, those are a decade ago (and TikTok reportedly bought its users). At this point it doesnt seem there is any potential for making a profitable app company, the profit would be to be acquired
- michaelkariv 6y ago
  Tiktok?

hexbinencoded 6y ago

You welcome nationalism, racism, xenophobia, control, censorship, fragmentation, and authoritarianism under some rhetorical nonsense about "competition" and "regulation?" Clear the earwax out of your eyes libertarian utopianist and wake the fuck up to what's happening in the world. Big Brother isn't a solution to inverted totalitarian corporate control of public commons, it's the beginning of the end of individual liberties that you clearly don't care about, all you see is hypothetical dollar signs/rupees and mission statements.

kelnos 6y ago

I welcome the idea that Apple should be required to allow third-party app stores, but the only end game I see with a government app store is a legally-mandated requirement to have that app store installed on all citizens'/residents' phones. At that point the phones just become extensions of the state's intelligence apparatus, and that's a net negative for everyone's privacy. Apple should certainly allow alternative app stores, and Google should make it easier and safer for customers to install alternative app stores, but I never want to see governments get into that market.