4 ms·

Your Response to Mistakes Defines You (2014)

78 points by abhayhegde 6y ago

082349872349872 6y ago
"Dealing with failure is easy: Work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: You've solved the wrong problem. Work hard to improve." https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html
- KarimDaghari 6y ago
  Thanks for the nuggets! Completely unrelated: > 113. The only constructive theory connecting neuroscience and psychology will arise from the study of software. This is really interesting. I haven't ventured into neuroscience (yet) but I've been "practicing" psychology (I'm not an SME; I'm just observing, introspecting and thinking about the thing) and I've found the two (software + psychology) to be well connected. For instance, when it comes to designing the UI/UX, you _need_ to have an (intuitive) understanding of the psychology underlaying the design.
- kubanczyk 6y ago
  It's mind boggling, so much was already known by 1980s. We still run around bumping against the same stuff forty years later :/
  - abhayhegde 6y ago
    Exactly! When they say "history repeats", I often wonder if it also means the responses repeat too. The situations most of us face is not unique and it is highly possible to arrive at similar best responses. Moreover the solutions offered then were simple and to-the-point, unlike the present fluffy ones. This also offers comfort because things are already figured out in most cases, it could be just a matter of finding them and locally applying them to suitable measures.
ZephyrBlu 6y ago
Accepting and learning from mistakes means you must first admit you did something wrong. It's hard to admit you did something wrong because of what it implies. Am I stupid? Am I not as skilled as I think I am? Did I miss something? Perhaps all of the above? I think this is hard for smart/perfectionist people because we think we should get things right, and this is likely to be tied to our ego/identity. But I've come to the conclusion that humans are just fundamentally stupid, because even extremely intelligent people fuck things up all the time. Not sure if it's the right thing to conclude from my observations, but it does make failure easier to deal with since I can remind myself that yep, I'm still just a dumb ape.
- cgriswald 6y ago
  A big dumb ape that can admit his mistakes is smarter than one that can’t. I stopped having a problem with admitting my mistakes when I realized the power of it. It also had the effect of humanizing me to people who thought I was a robot because I could do something well.
  - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
    Wiser rather than smarter, I think. It can be powerful, but it can also be tiring. Especially if you keep making the same mistake(s) or you're under pressure.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Smarter in the long run, if you follow up with the learning part. Learning from your mistakes forms a feedback loop that improves your reasoning.
- awinder 6y ago
  “But I've come to the conclusion that humans are just fundamentally stupid” I prefer eventually consistent but ok ;-). This was my takeaway for a bit but I massaged it into “humans can make better decisions after mistakes”. The differentiator was the focus on getting better, because for me I think I have a proclivity to stew in the “we are all stupid; why try”. If you don’t have that problem then “we are all stupid” works too, and is true :-).
baxtr 6y ago
There is a nice little “framework” that I’ve came across [1]. Outcome = Events + Response So basically he is saying that you can’t control events but your response to them. And, that’s the crucial part related to mistakes: Under pressure, we do not rise to the occasion. We rise or fall to the level of our training. So making mistakes and learning from them will continuously improve your Response. [1] It’s from the book “Above the Line” by Urban Meyer. Worth a read!
abhayhegde 6y ago
I think this is one of the main basis of psychology too. The psychologists never blame the situation or external factors for any problems you present. Be it career-wise, relationship issues, depression etc., they always offer coping mechanisms and thought processes to deal from within. The deal is to introspect and figure out a proper response to mistakes, situations, and in general, life.
chiefalchemist 6y ago
> It’s not that you stumble, it’s that you get back up. It’s not that you did something wrong but that you realize what’s happening and change. It’s not that you messed up as a friend or lover, it’s that you see ways you can be better. Having the wrong priorities is bad enough, but realizing that and refusing to change is worse. We have a new hire at my work. He's been on board 10 to 12 weeks now. His skill set is the least of our bunch. Fair enough, we all have to start somewhere. The problem is, he refuses to change. He's some form of Bartleby the Scrivener. Speaks 5x more than he listens. He has been asked to not do certain things certain ways, he's acknowledged those requests, and then has gone and done otherwise. He's been hand-held by people with experience very much his senior and yet he seems completely unwilling - we believe he's able - to "update his software." We've missed client deadlines because of him and he's yet to own a single misstep. The point is, it's not only himself who is compromised by his "learning disabilities." He's not young. Fifties-ish I guess. I also haven't seen his CV so I'm not sure how he sold himself. That said, if he's typical of people in that age range I now understand why many employers are reluctant to hire the "over-experienced." It's not that they fear paying more, it's that they're not going to get current and contemporary value. Note: Before you accuse me of age stereotyping I'm actually older than he is. I'm also skill for skill one of the least robust members on our team. But I listen. I openly ask for feedback. I'm still wanting to learn and grow. Perhaps I'm some sort of freak?
- throwaway77384 6y ago
  "Perhaps I'm some sort of freak? " You're clearly not. It's sort of astounding to think that someone could get to that age and not have learned the lessons in life that teaches one to listen and own up to mistakes. Some sort of nepotism perhaps? It's not age-ist to point out that you would have expected someone of that age to be more self-aware. People that cannot own their own mistakes are downright dangerous. The older, the worse. It's sort of odd, because some people can just 'slip through', all the way to the top (failing upwards, I believe it is called), because if you perfect the art of not admitting mistakes, some people mistake that for confidence / skill (and often, the more money you have, the easier it becomes to do this).
  - 6y ago
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
TBH, I hate these kind of "platitude" articles on HN that scrape from the bottom of the self-help barrel without giving any new insight into how to actually deal with the problem. "Resilience in the face of adversity is important!" No shit, sherlock. For people struggling with that kind of resiliency, this is pretty obvious.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  I loved when that person posted a similar platitude article and it turned out to have been written by GPT 3. The article got a lot of comments and he didn't let anyone on until days later.
  - tomhoward 6y ago
    Thinking about that incident, I realised that lightweight self-help posts is probably the only category of content for which that kind of stunt could work, partly because the copy of such articles is so generic that it can be (somewhat plausibly) machine-generated, but also because all you need is a sufficiently baity headline, and a whole lot of people will react to it and write comments about their reactions, without even reading the article. That was an important but mostly-overlooked aspect of that event; the title wasn't machine generated, and for many or even most of the commenters, the title was evidently all they read. Seems like a good reason to keep such posts of HN.
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      The writing was as good and generic as this article.
      - tomhoward 6y ago
        Sure, which is a comment on the quality of writing in this category of articles (though bear in mind the publisher of that post admitted to editing the copy, without showing the before/after and allowing us to make our own judgement of their work). But of course it doesn't matter if many of the the people commenting aren't reading the article anyway.
nickthemagicman 6y ago
Is there any objective definition to what is a mistake and what is not a mistake? Just anything that makes one unhappy? Facing Consequences doesn't seem a likely definition as whistleblowers are routinely punished for reporting corruption. This article needs to be a little more rigorous in laying out the foundation of its premise.
Simulacra 6y ago
This is the most optimistic response to mistakes I have ever read, yet I kept hearing all of these other factors in my mind. Yes, get yourself back up, realize your mistake, but if your situation does not change (neighborhood, job, disability) are you doomed to repeat? What are some alternatives to these that might be applicable to everyone?
ilaksh 6y ago
I don't think lying, cheating and stealing is the same as those other things.

78 points by abhayhegde 6y ago

"Dealing with failure is easy: Work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: You've solved the wrong problem. Work hard to improve." https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html

KarimDaghari 6y ago
Thanks for the nuggets! Completely unrelated: > 113. The only constructive theory connecting neuroscience and psychology will arise from the study of software. This is really interesting. I haven't ventured into neuroscience (yet) but I've been "practicing" psychology (I'm not an SME; I'm just observing, introspecting and thinking about the thing) and I've found the two (software + psychology) to be well connected. For instance, when it comes to designing the UI/UX, you _need_ to have an (intuitive) understanding of the psychology underlaying the design.
kubanczyk 6y ago
It's mind boggling, so much was already known by 1980s. We still run around bumping against the same stuff forty years later :/
- abhayhegde 6y ago
  Exactly! When they say "history repeats", I often wonder if it also means the responses repeat too. The situations most of us face is not unique and it is highly possible to arrive at similar best responses. Moreover the solutions offered then were simple and to-the-point, unlike the present fluffy ones. This also offers comfort because things are already figured out in most cases, it could be just a matter of finding them and locally applying them to suitable measures.

ZephyrBlu 6y ago

Accepting and learning from mistakes means you must first admit you did something wrong. It's hard to admit you did something wrong because of what it implies. Am I stupid? Am I not as skilled as I think I am? Did I miss something? Perhaps all of the above? I think this is hard for smart/perfectionist people because we think we should get things right, and this is likely to be tied to our ego/identity. But I've come to the conclusion that humans are just fundamentally stupid, because even extremely intelligent people fuck things up all the time. Not sure if it's the right thing to conclude from my observations, but it does make failure easier to deal with since I can remind myself that yep, I'm still just a dumb ape.

cgriswald 6y ago
A big dumb ape that can admit his mistakes is smarter than one that can’t. I stopped having a problem with admitting my mistakes when I realized the power of it. It also had the effect of humanizing me to people who thought I was a robot because I could do something well.
- ZephyrBlu 6y ago
  Wiser rather than smarter, I think. It can be powerful, but it can also be tiring. Especially if you keep making the same mistake(s) or you're under pressure.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Smarter in the long run, if you follow up with the learning part. Learning from your mistakes forms a feedback loop that improves your reasoning.
awinder 6y ago
“But I've come to the conclusion that humans are just fundamentally stupid” I prefer eventually consistent but ok ;-). This was my takeaway for a bit but I massaged it into “humans can make better decisions after mistakes”. The differentiator was the focus on getting better, because for me I think I have a proclivity to stew in the “we are all stupid; why try”. If you don’t have that problem then “we are all stupid” works too, and is true :-).

baxtr 6y ago

There is a nice little “framework” that I’ve came across [1]. Outcome = Events + Response So basically he is saying that you can’t control events but your response to them. And, that’s the crucial part related to mistakes: Under pressure, we do not rise to the occasion. We rise or fall to the level of our training. So making mistakes and learning from them will continuously improve your Response. [1] It’s from the book “Above the Line” by Urban Meyer. Worth a read!

abhayhegde 6y ago

I think this is one of the main basis of psychology too. The psychologists never blame the situation or external factors for any problems you present. Be it career-wise, relationship issues, depression etc., they always offer coping mechanisms and thought processes to deal from within. The deal is to introspect and figure out a proper response to mistakes, situations, and in general, life.

chiefalchemist 6y ago

> It’s not that you stumble, it’s that you get back up. It’s not that you did something wrong but that you realize what’s happening and change. It’s not that you messed up as a friend or lover, it’s that you see ways you can be better. Having the wrong priorities is bad enough, but realizing that and refusing to change is worse. We have a new hire at my work. He's been on board 10 to 12 weeks now. His skill set is the least of our bunch. Fair enough, we all have to start somewhere. The problem is, he refuses to change. He's some form of Bartleby the Scrivener. Speaks 5x more than he listens. He has been asked to not do certain things certain ways, he's acknowledged those requests, and then has gone and done otherwise. He's been hand-held by people with experience very much his senior and yet he seems completely unwilling - we believe he's able - to "update his software." We've missed client deadlines because of him and he's yet to own a single misstep. The point is, it's not only himself who is compromised by his "learning disabilities." He's not young. Fifties-ish I guess. I also haven't seen his CV so I'm not sure how he sold himself. That said, if he's typical of people in that age range I now understand why many employers are reluctant to hire the "over-experienced." It's not that they fear paying more, it's that they're not going to get current and contemporary value. Note: Before you accuse me of age stereotyping I'm actually older than he is. I'm also skill for skill one of the least robust members on our team. But I listen. I openly ask for feedback. I'm still wanting to learn and grow. Perhaps I'm some sort of freak?

throwaway77384 6y ago
"Perhaps I'm some sort of freak? " You're clearly not. It's sort of astounding to think that someone could get to that age and not have learned the lessons in life that teaches one to listen and own up to mistakes. Some sort of nepotism perhaps? It's not age-ist to point out that you would have expected someone of that age to be more self-aware. People that cannot own their own mistakes are downright dangerous. The older, the worse. It's sort of odd, because some people can just 'slip through', all the way to the top (failing upwards, I believe it is called), because if you perfect the art of not admitting mistakes, some people mistake that for confidence / skill (and often, the more money you have, the easier it becomes to do this).
- 6y ago

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

TBH, I hate these kind of "platitude" articles on HN that scrape from the bottom of the self-help barrel without giving any new insight into how to actually deal with the problem. "Resilience in the face of adversity is important!" No shit, sherlock. For people struggling with that kind of resiliency, this is pretty obvious.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
I loved when that person posted a similar platitude article and it turned out to have been written by GPT 3. The article got a lot of comments and he didn't let anyone on until days later.
- tomhoward 6y ago
  Thinking about that incident, I realised that lightweight self-help posts is probably the only category of content for which that kind of stunt could work, partly because the copy of such articles is so generic that it can be (somewhat plausibly) machine-generated, but also because all you need is a sufficiently baity headline, and a whole lot of people will react to it and write comments about their reactions, without even reading the article. That was an important but mostly-overlooked aspect of that event; the title wasn't machine generated, and for many or even most of the commenters, the title was evidently all they read. Seems like a good reason to keep such posts of HN.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    The writing was as good and generic as this article.
    - tomhoward 6y ago
      Sure, which is a comment on the quality of writing in this category of articles (though bear in mind the publisher of that post admitted to editing the copy, without showing the before/after and allowing us to make our own judgement of their work). But of course it doesn't matter if many of the the people commenting aren't reading the article anyway.

nickthemagicman 6y ago

Is there any objective definition to what is a mistake and what is not a mistake? Just anything that makes one unhappy? Facing Consequences doesn't seem a likely definition as whistleblowers are routinely punished for reporting corruption. This article needs to be a little more rigorous in laying out the foundation of its premise.

Simulacra 6y ago

This is the most optimistic response to mistakes I have ever read, yet I kept hearing all of these other factors in my mind. Yes, get yourself back up, realize your mistake, but if your situation does not change (neighborhood, job, disability) are you doomed to repeat? What are some alternatives to these that might be applicable to everyone?

ilaksh 6y ago

I don't think lying, cheating and stealing is the same as those other things.