6 ms·

Found the millennial? The knob design is the much older one as it's purely analog. I don't have a microwave anymore for almost a decade now, but even before I

Found the millennial? The knob design is the much older one as it's purely analog. I don't have a microwave anymore for almost a decade now, but even before I used it occasionally only, mostly for heating up food from the day before, nothing where I'd need sub-millisecond accuracy. Also in general food tastes different/weird if you blast it at full power, so going for lower wattage and longer cooking times would reduce the need for super accurate timing controls. Unless you grew up on microwaved food exclusively, then I guess food prepared on a stove tastes weird. :-)

danielheath 6y ago
> Found the millennial? The knob design is the much older one as it's purely analog. Modern microwave knobs are not properly analog. They are so infuriating - an analog control fiddling with a discrete setting. As you turn the knob, it will occasionally (with no haptic feedback) tick over to the next discrete value.
- andi999 6y ago
  but much better than the old analog knob. For less than a minute you couldnt even turn it (usually jumped back to the bell or was anything from 20s to 1min)
  - alias_neo 6y ago
    This. Since becoming a father I realised how annoying our analogue microwave knob is when you just need to blast something for 20 second while dealing with a screaming child. Either it's too short and you get 2 second, or it's too long and you get 60, now you need to do your best to cool the thing down quickly In the time before baby, the analogue microwave was refreshing, now it's a nuisance.
    - jjoonathan 6y ago
      It's also a fire danger because the mechanical time wheels can lose spring tension / get gunked up just enough to stick right before they reach the end, leaving the microwave on until you notice. It wasn't a huge deal when it happened to me because I wasn't very distracted and I was making tea so it just sat there and boiled for a couple of minutes until I checked in. Under slightly different circumstances it could have been much worse.
    - nobody9999 6y ago
      >This. Since becoming a father I realised how annoying our analogue microwave knob is when you just need to blast something for 20 second while dealing with a screaming child. Either it's too short and you get 2 second, or it's too long and you get 60, now you need to do your best to cool the thing down quickly Not sure about your microwave, but mine (ca. 1996 Panasonic) has an analog knob (actually, that's the only control) for time. If I need less than a minute, I turn the knob past 1 minute, then turn it back where I want it. That pretty much always works for me. Perhaps it might for you too.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rusk 6y ago
    Sorry this is a bit nitpicky but since this is HN ... is it strictly correct to call this knob “analogue”? The old fashioned ones were clockwork and the newer ones are some kind of digital rotary controller ... I guess if we’re describing the experience rather than the mechanism maybe just good old “knob” suffice!
    - rightbyte 6y ago
      Ye a mechanical timer is digital in its output, right? The analogue dailer could maybe be the power, but it was most likely discrete too.
  - stickfigure 6y ago
    The microwave I grew up with (70s/80s) had a log-ish scale. The first quarter turn was 0-60s, the second quarter turn got you to 5 mins, etc. I don't remember the exact gradations but I remember it was very easy to get almost any time you wanted. I have hated every microwave since.
    - andi999 6y ago
      I am curious how they did this. Was it purely mechanical?
      - stickfigure 6y ago
        It was purely mechanical. Somehow I managed to find the model: https://www.ebay.com/i/203083047312 https://www.ebay.com/i/203083047312 A closeup picture of the dial: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aogAAOSwFmZfPquw/s-l1600.jpg https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aogAAOSwFmZfPquw/s-l1600.jpg The log-factor wasn't as severe as I had remembered, but the 0-1m angle is about the same as the 20-25m angle. It was still pretty easy to get 15s, 30s, etc. I'm sure you could do a lot better with modern digital electronics.
- lsaferite 6y ago
  Sounds like a UX fail to not use an encoder with detents.
  - jjoonathan 6y ago
    Oh, they use encoders with detents, they just can't be bothered to make their software "fast" enough to reliably count every detent even though each detent tick lasts for millions of clock cycles.
- ptx 6y ago
  It can be done well. I've used one (I forget the brand - possibly Electrolux) with a wheel that does have haptic feedback on every tick and is actually very nice to use. As the absolute value increases, the increment for every tick also increases in a way that feels natural to me, so you don't have to turn it as much as you would an analog wheel for the same precision .
junon 6y ago
I believe you're both talking about two separate designs - I'm sure one might have influenced the other but they're certainly not the same. The analog knob you're referring to, I think, is the _very_ old design that functioned more like an egg timer. It was spring loaded and simply turned on the microwave circuit and broke it when the timer mechanically reached resting position. The new knob is digital, and you use it to navigate a digial menu and to increase/decrease the timer prior to pressing it inward to start the process. Completely novel input mechanism.
tssva 6y ago
I'm 52 and have used microwave ovens since my parents bought one in 1981. It had a touchpad and every microwave I have ever used since then has had a touchpad. My experience is that except for the extremely low end of the countertop microwave market it was rare to see a microwave with knob controls until the last 10 years.
- Moru 6y ago
  All my micro waves have been nob controlled except one but that one broke down after a few weeks so that one does't count. The rest was two analog and three digital nobs. All the digital nobs broke down after 1-2 years but the analog nobs still work after 20+ years. And you can still buy new ananlog nob microwave ovens in the store but they aren't as good any more.
  - tssva 6y ago
    Maybe it is regional but in the US microwaves have been mostly touchpad since at least the late 70s.
- garfieldnate 6y ago
  I grew up with touchpad microwaves and I assumed that most models still used that interface. I live in Germany now, and when I search through the models on Amazon US, UK and DE I was only able to find one touchpad microwave that I could get here, and unfortunately it was capacitive :( I was pretty surprised at this change. I wonder what drives microwave UI patterns over time.
dwighttk 6y ago
I guess you haven’t seen the new digital knobs, worst of both worlds.
dkersten 6y ago
> Found the millennial? Given that millennial seems to refer to anyone born between mid 70's and late 90's, that could basically be any type of microwave design that ever existed.
- rusk 6y ago
  I think you’re right ... he’s thinking of the one that comes after. I think we’re settling on your definition but there’s still sufficient confusion. It’s only in the last 5 years I think we’ve become settled with gen x.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  Early 80's, not mid 70's. If you cut at mid 70's you'd basically be erasing Gen X, but just because it's popular to talk about "boomer" vs. "millennial" doesn't mean they're adjacent!

danielheath 6y ago

> Found the millennial? The knob design is the much older one as it's purely analog. Modern microwave knobs are not properly analog. They are so infuriating - an analog control fiddling with a discrete setting. As you turn the knob, it will occasionally (with no haptic feedback) tick over to the next discrete value.

andi999 6y ago
but much better than the old analog knob. For less than a minute you couldnt even turn it (usually jumped back to the bell or was anything from 20s to 1min)
- alias_neo 6y ago
  This. Since becoming a father I realised how annoying our analogue microwave knob is when you just need to blast something for 20 second while dealing with a screaming child. Either it's too short and you get 2 second, or it's too long and you get 60, now you need to do your best to cool the thing down quickly In the time before baby, the analogue microwave was refreshing, now it's a nuisance.
  - jjoonathan 6y ago
    It's also a fire danger because the mechanical time wheels can lose spring tension / get gunked up just enough to stick right before they reach the end, leaving the microwave on until you notice. It wasn't a huge deal when it happened to me because I wasn't very distracted and I was making tea so it just sat there and boiled for a couple of minutes until I checked in. Under slightly different circumstances it could have been much worse.
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    >This. Since becoming a father I realised how annoying our analogue microwave knob is when you just need to blast something for 20 second while dealing with a screaming child. Either it's too short and you get 2 second, or it's too long and you get 60, now you need to do your best to cool the thing down quickly Not sure about your microwave, but mine (ca. 1996 Panasonic) has an analog knob (actually, that's the only control) for time. If I need less than a minute, I turn the knob past 1 minute, then turn it back where I want it. That pretty much always works for me. Perhaps it might for you too.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rusk 6y ago
  Sorry this is a bit nitpicky but since this is HN ... is it strictly correct to call this knob “analogue”? The old fashioned ones were clockwork and the newer ones are some kind of digital rotary controller ... I guess if we’re describing the experience rather than the mechanism maybe just good old “knob” suffice!
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    Ye a mechanical timer is digital in its output, right? The analogue dailer could maybe be the power, but it was most likely discrete too.
- stickfigure 6y ago
  The microwave I grew up with (70s/80s) had a log-ish scale. The first quarter turn was 0-60s, the second quarter turn got you to 5 mins, etc. I don't remember the exact gradations but I remember it was very easy to get almost any time you wanted. I have hated every microwave since.
  - andi999 6y ago
    I am curious how they did this. Was it purely mechanical?
    - stickfigure 6y ago
      It was purely mechanical. Somehow I managed to find the model: https://www.ebay.com/i/203083047312 https://www.ebay.com/i/203083047312 A closeup picture of the dial: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aogAAOSwFmZfPquw/s-l1600.jpg https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aogAAOSwFmZfPquw/s-l1600.jpg The log-factor wasn't as severe as I had remembered, but the 0-1m angle is about the same as the 20-25m angle. It was still pretty easy to get 15s, 30s, etc. I'm sure you could do a lot better with modern digital electronics.
lsaferite 6y ago
Sounds like a UX fail to not use an encoder with detents.
- jjoonathan 6y ago
  Oh, they use encoders with detents, they just can't be bothered to make their software "fast" enough to reliably count every detent even though each detent tick lasts for millions of clock cycles.
ptx 6y ago
It can be done well. I've used one (I forget the brand - possibly Electrolux) with a wheel that does have haptic feedback on every tick and is actually very nice to use. As the absolute value increases, the increment for every tick also increases in a way that feels natural to me, so you don't have to turn it as much as you would an analog wheel for the same precision .

junon 6y ago

I believe you're both talking about two separate designs - I'm sure one might have influenced the other but they're certainly not the same. The analog knob you're referring to, I think, is the _very_ old design that functioned more like an egg timer. It was spring loaded and simply turned on the microwave circuit and broke it when the timer mechanically reached resting position. The new knob is digital, and you use it to navigate a digial menu and to increase/decrease the timer prior to pressing it inward to start the process. Completely novel input mechanism.

tssva 6y ago

I'm 52 and have used microwave ovens since my parents bought one in 1981. It had a touchpad and every microwave I have ever used since then has had a touchpad. My experience is that except for the extremely low end of the countertop microwave market it was rare to see a microwave with knob controls until the last 10 years.

Moru 6y ago
All my micro waves have been nob controlled except one but that one broke down after a few weeks so that one does't count. The rest was two analog and three digital nobs. All the digital nobs broke down after 1-2 years but the analog nobs still work after 20+ years. And you can still buy new ananlog nob microwave ovens in the store but they aren't as good any more.
- tssva 6y ago
  Maybe it is regional but in the US microwaves have been mostly touchpad since at least the late 70s.
garfieldnate 6y ago
I grew up with touchpad microwaves and I assumed that most models still used that interface. I live in Germany now, and when I search through the models on Amazon US, UK and DE I was only able to find one touchpad microwave that I could get here, and unfortunately it was capacitive :( I was pretty surprised at this change. I wonder what drives microwave UI patterns over time.

dwighttk 6y ago

I guess you haven’t seen the new digital knobs, worst of both worlds.

dkersten 6y ago

> Found the millennial? Given that millennial seems to refer to anyone born between mid 70's and late 90's, that could basically be any type of microwave design that ever existed.

rusk 6y ago
I think you’re right ... he’s thinking of the one that comes after. I think we’re settling on your definition but there’s still sufficient confusion. It’s only in the last 5 years I think we’ve become settled with gen x.
Dylan16807 6y ago
Early 80's, not mid 70's. If you cut at mid 70's you'd basically be erasing Gen X, but just because it's popular to talk about "boomer" vs. "millennial" doesn't mean they're adjacent!