7 ms·

We're going off topic now, but why do all microwaves have knobs now? I hate them. I want a number pad like the microwaves had when I was growing up. I want to c

We're going off topic now, but why do all microwaves have knobs now? I hate them. I want a number pad like the microwaves had when I was growing up. I want to close the door, press the numbers that indicate the amount of time I want and hit "start". When you turn a knob, either you have no indication of the exact time, or there's a display that moves in increments that the computer thinks are good (usually 10s). I don't want to scroll to the time I think is good, and I don't want to fight the thing trying to get smaller increments, which I need for doing more sensitive foods (microwave cake, for example). The knobs can also be difficult for people with certain disabilities. While I'm griping already, a lot of people hate the button interfaces some (rare) microwaves have because they use capacitive touch buttons with no haptic feedback, and careful aim is required to press the correct button. I wish manufacturers would make microwaves with button blister keypads instead. For blind users, blister buttons can also have raised braile indicators, or users can buy "bump dots" to make the buttons easier to find and actuate. What do blind users do with a microwave that has knobs? If the knobs click and they use the microwave regularly, I guess they could memorize the number of clicks to turn them. If they're ultra-smooth digital no-click knobs, then they have to memorize quarter-turns and turning speed, etc. Sounds awful! Or perhaps I am mistaken and there is actually a microwave with both knobs and voice guidance (though if I were blind I think slow voice guidance would drive me nuts). [Edit]: formatting

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Same here. I want my button-blister microwaves back. Knobs are low-accuracy, low-precision. Which may be fine for some cooking, but not all. On my current knob-equipped microwave, my precision is limited to +/- 30 seconds simply due to the mechanical design, which means a) it's hard to heat anything up "just a little", as sub-minute heating is hit-and-miss, and b) it's hard to do food sensitive to cooking time. Button blisters with a digital clock telling time to the second. That's an interface I can trust because I can see the time counting down in the correct pace (I have trust issues with all kinds of analog knob timers, including Pomodoro timers). That's an interface I've learned to use without looking, one hand keying in the correct time and power setting, the other hand operating food, <Start> getting pressed as soon as the tray door close. I still remember my most common sequence from childhood. <Cook Time> <Power Level> <Power Level> <1> <4> <0> <Start>. Could do that blind even today. Knobs are good for things that you need to scroll around a lot (and knobs in professional devices excel at jumping precision levels to allow an excellent experience here). Setting time and power on a microwave is not like that. You have exact values in mind, and need a way to input them precisely. Having an input level precise to 1 second is useful if you're using it day-in, day out. As a kid, I was mostly doing the same few meals in the microwave, so I had perfect timing nailed with experience. For instance, a DIY zapiekanka[0] made of bread, cheese and some flavoring, would come out perfect at Full power, 1:40 time. Add 20 seconds, and you'd burn the cheese. The cheese was the factor that determined microwave settings. If, for some reason, my mom bought a different type than usual, I'd have to correct the time (usually adjust up), but then with experience I quickly developed "cheese tables" in my head. I'd look at a slice, and think, "ok, this is the smelly one, needs +40 seconds to come out well". Etc. Then I'd key in the correct settings, and come back in 2 minutes to the perfectly made zapiekanka. (I suppose this was my attempt at treating cooking as an industrial process and not black magic :).) -- [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapiekanka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapiekanka
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  [0] Kur..! Now you made me hungry! Need to get some Croques instead, I guess.
cm2187 6y ago
Easier to clean than a number pad. I think knobs are great, you can rotate fast with very little effort. I think it should be a standard feature of computer keyboards.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Not true. You can just wipe a blister number pad and you're done. They're designed that way. With knobs, better hope they're detachable. Agreed that a knob should be a part of a computer keyboard - as a generic analog input device, not a mousewheel equivalent, though.
- alanbernstein 6y ago
  Far from standard, but it's available, in case you're not aware: https://keeb.io/products/quefrency-rev-2-60-65-split-staggered-keyboard https://keeb.io/products/quefrency-rev-2-60-65-split-stagger...
  - cm2187 6y ago
    You might as well buy something like the shuttle rather than a small knob stuck between two keys https://www.contourdesign.com/product/shuttle/ https://www.contourdesign.com/product/shuttle/
- narwally 6y ago
  I love the volume roller on my Logitech G710+. Having a few programable knobs would be interesting to play around with, though I'm not sure what exactly I'd use them for.
GordonS 6y ago
My microwave has a knob and a digital display - so turning the knob updates the display. The knob also has "clicks", rather than turning smoothly. I like this interface - it's tactile and usable.
- henrikschroder 6y ago
  I had a microwave like that as well, and it was absolutely fantastic! One big wheel to set the time, and it was 100% deterministic, so you developed muscle memory for setting it at different times. Loved it, never been able to find one like it since.
  - jeffreygoesto 6y ago
    https://www.amazon.de/Samsung-ME82V-SS-XEG-Mikrowelle-silber/dp/B005JS5IVY https://www.amazon.de/Samsung-ME82V-SS-XEG-Mikrowelle-silber...
  - rusk 6y ago
    I have NEFF microwave that works like this. I agree that it is the best. Still haven’t fully got the muscle memory but ...
PostThisTooFast 6y ago
My beef is microwaves that force you to press “cook time” before can use the number pad. If I walk up to the thing and start typing, WTF does GE think I’m entering? Their default is... NOTHING. It ignores the input. STUPID.
knaq 6y ago
I would be happy with a big red rocker switch. It should have labels "ON" and "OFF". A more daring design uses the door as a switch. Close the door, and the microwave runs. Open the door, and it stops. This is about as simple as it could be. User efficiency is maximized.
- matejn 6y ago
  I have seen and used a close-door-to-start microwave. It was a regular microwave where the timer knob was broken. Every couple of weeks you would use pliers to turn the remaining spindle of the knob all the way to the right to reset the timer. :)
- Moru 6y ago
  Our digital knob micro was like that. This gets a problem when the digital knob suddenly malfunctions and starts the microwave in the night, set on 5 minutes and nothing inside it. Could start a nice fire if unlucky. It only happened during daytime when we noticed it luckily.
iforgotpassword 6y ago
Found the millennial? The knob design is the much older one as it's purely analog. I don't have a microwave anymore for almost a decade now, but even before I used it occasionally only, mostly for heating up food from the day before, nothing where I'd need sub-millisecond accuracy. Also in general food tastes different/weird if you blast it at full power, so going for lower wattage and longer cooking times would reduce the need for super accurate timing controls. Unless you grew up on microwaved food exclusively, then I guess food prepared on a stove tastes weird. :-)
- danielheath 6y ago
  > Found the millennial? The knob design is the much older one as it's purely analog. Modern microwave knobs are not properly analog. They are so infuriating - an analog control fiddling with a discrete setting. As you turn the knob, it will occasionally (with no haptic feedback) tick over to the next discrete value.
  - andi999 6y ago
    but much better than the old analog knob. For less than a minute you couldnt even turn it (usually jumped back to the bell or was anything from 20s to 1min)
    - alias_neo 6y ago
      This. Since becoming a father I realised how annoying our analogue microwave knob is when you just need to blast something for 20 second while dealing with a screaming child. Either it's too short and you get 2 second, or it's too long and you get 60, now you need to do your best to cool the thing down quickly In the time before baby, the analogue microwave was refreshing, now it's a nuisance.
      - jjoonathan 6y ago
        It's also a fire danger because the mechanical time wheels can lose spring tension / get gunked up just enough to stick right before they reach the end, leaving the microwave on until you notice. It wasn't a huge deal when it happened to me because I wasn't very distracted and I was making tea so it just sat there and boiled for a couple of minutes until I checked in. Under slightly different circumstances it could have been much worse.
jpindar 6y ago
Where are you shopping? Only 5 of the first 50 microwaves that I just saw on Amazon have knobs.
- garfieldnate 6y ago
  Now that you mention it, I guess what I really am is a grumbling ex-pat. I often find things I want on amazon.com and then change the URL to .de or .co.uk, or I find items that are available for shipping to Germany (for a decent price), I assume because they actually ship from China or are already distributed in Amazon warehouses. I guess in the case of microwaves the power input is different, so the models are different by area, and this part of Europe seems to prefer knobs. I will say, though, I don't see any there with blister buttons; they all appear to be capactive.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

Same here. I want my button-blister microwaves back. Knobs are low-accuracy, low-precision. Which may be fine for some cooking, but not all. On my current knob-equipped microwave, my precision is limited to +/- 30 seconds simply due to the mechanical design, which means a) it's hard to heat anything up "just a little", as sub-minute heating is hit-and-miss, and b) it's hard to do food sensitive to cooking time. Button blisters with a digital clock telling time to the second. That's an interface I can trust because I can see the time counting down in the correct pace (I have trust issues with all kinds of analog knob timers, including Pomodoro timers). That's an interface I've learned to use without looking, one hand keying in the correct time and power setting, the other hand operating food, <Start> getting pressed as soon as the tray door close. I still remember my most common sequence from childhood. <Cook Time> <Power Level> <Power Level> <1> <4> <0> <Start>. Could do that blind even today. Knobs are good for things that you need to scroll around a lot (and knobs in professional devices excel at jumping precision levels to allow an excellent experience here). Setting time and power on a microwave is not like that. You have exact values in mind, and need a way to input them precisely. Having an input level precise to 1 second is useful if you're using it day-in, day out. As a kid, I was mostly doing the same few meals in the microwave, so I had perfect timing nailed with experience. For instance, a DIY zapiekanka[0] made of bread, cheese and some flavoring, would come out perfect at Full power, 1:40 time. Add 20 seconds, and you'd burn the cheese. The cheese was the factor that determined microwave settings. If, for some reason, my mom bought a different type than usual, I'd have to correct the time (usually adjust up), but then with experience I quickly developed "cheese tables" in my head. I'd look at a slice, and think, "ok, this is the smelly one, needs +40 seconds to come out well". Etc. Then I'd key in the correct settings, and come back in 2 minutes to the perfectly made zapiekanka. (I suppose this was my attempt at treating cooking as an industrial process and not black magic :).) -- [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapiekanka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapiekanka

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
[0] Kur..! Now you made me hungry! Need to get some Croques instead, I guess.

cm2187 6y ago

Easier to clean than a number pad. I think knobs are great, you can rotate fast with very little effort. I think it should be a standard feature of computer keyboards.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Not true. You can just wipe a blister number pad and you're done. They're designed that way. With knobs, better hope they're detachable. Agreed that a knob should be a part of a computer keyboard - as a generic analog input device, not a mousewheel equivalent, though.
alanbernstein 6y ago
Far from standard, but it's available, in case you're not aware: https://keeb.io/products/quefrency-rev-2-60-65-split-staggered-keyboard https://keeb.io/products/quefrency-rev-2-60-65-split-stagger...
- cm2187 6y ago
  You might as well buy something like the shuttle rather than a small knob stuck between two keys https://www.contourdesign.com/product/shuttle/ https://www.contourdesign.com/product/shuttle/
narwally 6y ago
I love the volume roller on my Logitech G710+. Having a few programable knobs would be interesting to play around with, though I'm not sure what exactly I'd use them for.

GordonS 6y ago

My microwave has a knob and a digital display - so turning the knob updates the display. The knob also has "clicks", rather than turning smoothly. I like this interface - it's tactile and usable.

henrikschroder 6y ago
I had a microwave like that as well, and it was absolutely fantastic! One big wheel to set the time, and it was 100% deterministic, so you developed muscle memory for setting it at different times. Loved it, never been able to find one like it since.
- jeffreygoesto 6y ago
  https://www.amazon.de/Samsung-ME82V-SS-XEG-Mikrowelle-silber/dp/B005JS5IVY https://www.amazon.de/Samsung-ME82V-SS-XEG-Mikrowelle-silber...
- rusk 6y ago
  I have NEFF microwave that works like this. I agree that it is the best. Still haven’t fully got the muscle memory but ...

PostThisTooFast 6y ago

My beef is microwaves that force you to press “cook time” before can use the number pad. If I walk up to the thing and start typing, WTF does GE think I’m entering? Their default is... NOTHING. It ignores the input. STUPID.

knaq 6y ago

I would be happy with a big red rocker switch. It should have labels "ON" and "OFF". A more daring design uses the door as a switch. Close the door, and the microwave runs. Open the door, and it stops. This is about as simple as it could be. User efficiency is maximized.

matejn 6y ago
I have seen and used a close-door-to-start microwave. It was a regular microwave where the timer knob was broken. Every couple of weeks you would use pliers to turn the remaining spindle of the knob all the way to the right to reset the timer. :)
Moru 6y ago
Our digital knob micro was like that. This gets a problem when the digital knob suddenly malfunctions and starts the microwave in the night, set on 5 minutes and nothing inside it. Could start a nice fire if unlucky. It only happened during daytime when we noticed it luckily.

iforgotpassword 6y ago

Found the millennial? The knob design is the much older one as it's purely analog. I don't have a microwave anymore for almost a decade now, but even before I used it occasionally only, mostly for heating up food from the day before, nothing where I'd need sub-millisecond accuracy. Also in general food tastes different/weird if you blast it at full power, so going for lower wattage and longer cooking times would reduce the need for super accurate timing controls. Unless you grew up on microwaved food exclusively, then I guess food prepared on a stove tastes weird. :-)

danielheath 6y ago
> Found the millennial? The knob design is the much older one as it's purely analog. Modern microwave knobs are not properly analog. They are so infuriating - an analog control fiddling with a discrete setting. As you turn the knob, it will occasionally (with no haptic feedback) tick over to the next discrete value.
- andi999 6y ago
  but much better than the old analog knob. For less than a minute you couldnt even turn it (usually jumped back to the bell or was anything from 20s to 1min)
  - alias_neo 6y ago
    This. Since becoming a father I realised how annoying our analogue microwave knob is when you just need to blast something for 20 second while dealing with a screaming child. Either it's too short and you get 2 second, or it's too long and you get 60, now you need to do your best to cool the thing down quickly In the time before baby, the analogue microwave was refreshing, now it's a nuisance.
    - jjoonathan 6y ago
      It's also a fire danger because the mechanical time wheels can lose spring tension / get gunked up just enough to stick right before they reach the end, leaving the microwave on until you notice. It wasn't a huge deal when it happened to me because I wasn't very distracted and I was making tea so it just sat there and boiled for a couple of minutes until I checked in. Under slightly different circumstances it could have been much worse.

jpindar 6y ago

Where are you shopping? Only 5 of the first 50 microwaves that I just saw on Amazon have knobs.

garfieldnate 6y ago
Now that you mention it, I guess what I really am is a grumbling ex-pat. I often find things I want on amazon.com and then change the URL to .de or .co.uk, or I find items that are available for shipping to Germany (for a decent price), I assume because they actually ship from China or are already distributed in Amazon warehouses. I guess in the case of microwaves the power input is different, so the models are different by area, and this part of Europe seems to prefer knobs. I will say, though, I don't see any there with blister buttons; they all appear to be capactive.