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> even going so far as to make customers pay a licensing fee to play stolen games whoops yeah that sounds indictable > sold illegal devices that hacked popula

> even going so far as to make customers pay a licensing fee to play stolen games whoops yeah that sounds indictable > sold illegal devices that hacked popular videogame consoles so they could be used to play unauthorized, or pirated, copies of videogames this does not sound indictable, but it depends on what those illegal devices contained

ReverseCold 6y ago
They make mod chips for the Nintendo Switch that let you load arbitrary games without protection. Compared to the actual Homebrew community, which doesn’t actively advertise or support features like that. They were probably first to market, but then the community found the RCM bug and now Xecutor is pretty irrelevant. Side note: “So long Gary Bowser“
- jsheard 6y ago
  > They were probably first to market, but then the community found the RCM bug and now Xecutor is pretty irrelevant. Well, irrelevant for people who own a Switch that's vulnerable to the RCM bug. Nintendo fixed that in a hardware revision around two years ago so there's a lot of Switches out there which cannot be hacked by the open source methods, but can with Team Xecuters hardware mod. RCM was patched before the launch of the "Switch 2.0" and Switch Lite, so the only way to get homebrew along with the improved battery life of the 2.0 or greater portability of the Lite is via that hardware mod.
  - girvo 6y ago
    Are there open source versions of the new hardware mod for those patched consoles? The open nature of the simple GameCube drive chip (I forget the name) was neat — you can still buy them today for about $8 AUD, or even pretty easily make your own with a PCB printing shop and some time! Edit: XenoGC!
    - jsheard 6y ago
      Not yet, for now the proprietary Xecuter modchips are the only game in town. IIRC the XenoGC was originally proprietary too, but open sourced by the designer after a few years.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  Super Mario 64 reference. I think they changed it for Super Mario 3D All Stars.
  - jsheard 6y ago
    It wasn't really changed for 3D All Stars, rather they based 3D All Stars on the 1997 Japan-exclusive re-release which never had that line to begin with. That version added rumble support and fixed some bugs, but being intended for Japan where Bowser is called King Koopa they used a different voice line.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- numpad0 6y ago
  They were not the first. IIRC they stole RCM exploit as soon as it went public, and started selling it along their “operating system” which was reskinned original Nintendo firmware.
j_walter 6y ago
"even going so far as to make customers pay a licensing fee to play stolen games" That's a reach...technically they charged a license fee to use SXOS which allowed homebrew. It can also be used for playing stolen games, but it is not marketed as such.
- ReverseCold 6y ago
  “ To support this illegal activity, Team Xecuter allegedly helped create and support online libraries of pirated videogames for its customers, and several of the enterprise’s devices came preloaded with numerous pirated videogames.” This is probably more of a smoking gun.
  - Gamemaster1379 6y ago
    That sounds somewhat inaccurate. That seems to suggest they facilitated online marketplaces where these are sold -- and I don't believe they've ever sold pre-loaded games in these. At most they advertise possibility of using homebrew. If you can run unsigned code, you can write unsigned code to dump retail games. But Team Xecutor doesn't explicitly encourage those specific actions nor distribute them online (only to cover their asses, of course that's what people buying them buy them for)
- stripline 6y ago
  It's amazing to me how lawyers can spin the same set of facts in opposite ways, to tell any story they want without telling a lie. In college I dated a girl in her first year of law school. This technique was something they are taught as a 1L (first year). I remember she would have assignments to write the arguments for both sides using the same set of facts. Made me realize that a good lawyer can convince a jury of anything.
  - umvi 6y ago
    The media can do the same - tell any story they want from the facts. And that's how you end up with headlines about "fiery but mostly peaceful protests"
anfilt 6y ago
One of the charges is "trafficking in circumvention devices" that's a huge concern! If they are successfully charged as such it's going to set a horrible precedent!
- bitwize 6y ago
  People have been convicted under the anticircumvention provisions of the DMCA before. The law explicitly says it's a crime.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    They live in France and Shenzhen. Are circumvention devices illegal there?
    - bitwize 6y ago
      In France, almost certainly. The DMCA was implemented under the auspices of a WIPO treaty which mandates anticircumvention legislation.
      - monocasa 6y ago
        I don't think DADVSI's anti circumvention provisions have been tested in court.
    - smnrchrds 6y ago
      I remember VLC reading many years ago that VLC could do what it did, playing region-locked DVDs, because the French author could legally implement circumvention methods into VLC. However, America's focus in free trade negotiations over the past decade and perhaps longer have been protecting their intellectual property. For example, due to America's pressure and as a part of the New NAFTA negotiations, Canada agreed to increase its copyright term from life + 50 to life + 70 years. I wouldn't be surprised if what was once legal in France has become illegal since. Decades ago, US decided it wanted banks everywhere to follow American regulations. It was a resounding success. That's why US can now block Iran from trading with the rest of the world through national legislation rather than international sanctions, or make Canada hand over a Chinese national to be prosecuted in the US for alleged crimes done in Hong Kong. Now that banking is done, the new frontier is intellectual property. I expect national laws everywhere to one by one become like US laws.
rbecker 6y ago
> sold illegal devices that hacked popular videogame consoles so they could be used to play unauthorized, or pirated, copies of videogames How long until that turns into "sold illegal devices that hacked popular smartphones so they could be used to run unauthorized, or pirated, copies of apps"? How long for PCs?
- atomi 6y ago
  It all depends on their budget.
the_only_law 6y ago
Didn't some guy get prison time for selling a book explaining how or some tools to unlock cable modems several years ago?
- cbozeman 6y ago
  His book publisher stuck behind him... https://nostarch.com/blog/thoughts-indictment-ryan-harris-hacking-cable-modem-author.htm https://nostarch.com/blog/thoughts-indictment-ryan-harris-ha...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

ReverseCold 6y ago

They make mod chips for the Nintendo Switch that let you load arbitrary games without protection. Compared to the actual Homebrew community, which doesn’t actively advertise or support features like that. They were probably first to market, but then the community found the RCM bug and now Xecutor is pretty irrelevant. Side note: “So long Gary Bowser“

jsheard 6y ago
> They were probably first to market, but then the community found the RCM bug and now Xecutor is pretty irrelevant. Well, irrelevant for people who own a Switch that's vulnerable to the RCM bug. Nintendo fixed that in a hardware revision around two years ago so there's a lot of Switches out there which cannot be hacked by the open source methods, but can with Team Xecuters hardware mod. RCM was patched before the launch of the "Switch 2.0" and Switch Lite, so the only way to get homebrew along with the improved battery life of the 2.0 or greater portability of the Lite is via that hardware mod.
- girvo 6y ago
  Are there open source versions of the new hardware mod for those patched consoles? The open nature of the simple GameCube drive chip (I forget the name) was neat — you can still buy them today for about $8 AUD, or even pretty easily make your own with a PCB printing shop and some time! Edit: XenoGC!
  - jsheard 6y ago
    Not yet, for now the proprietary Xecuter modchips are the only game in town. IIRC the XenoGC was originally proprietary too, but open sourced by the designer after a few years.
29athrowaway 6y ago
Super Mario 64 reference. I think they changed it for Super Mario 3D All Stars.
- jsheard 6y ago
  It wasn't really changed for 3D All Stars, rather they based 3D All Stars on the 1997 Japan-exclusive re-release which never had that line to begin with. That version added rumble support and fixed some bugs, but being intended for Japan where Bowser is called King Koopa they used a different voice line.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
numpad0 6y ago
They were not the first. IIRC they stole RCM exploit as soon as it went public, and started selling it along their “operating system” which was reskinned original Nintendo firmware.

j_walter 6y ago

"even going so far as to make customers pay a licensing fee to play stolen games" That's a reach...technically they charged a license fee to use SXOS which allowed homebrew. It can also be used for playing stolen games, but it is not marketed as such.

ReverseCold 6y ago
“ To support this illegal activity, Team Xecuter allegedly helped create and support online libraries of pirated videogames for its customers, and several of the enterprise’s devices came preloaded with numerous pirated videogames.” This is probably more of a smoking gun.
- Gamemaster1379 6y ago
  That sounds somewhat inaccurate. That seems to suggest they facilitated online marketplaces where these are sold -- and I don't believe they've ever sold pre-loaded games in these. At most they advertise possibility of using homebrew. If you can run unsigned code, you can write unsigned code to dump retail games. But Team Xecutor doesn't explicitly encourage those specific actions nor distribute them online (only to cover their asses, of course that's what people buying them buy them for)
stripline 6y ago
It's amazing to me how lawyers can spin the same set of facts in opposite ways, to tell any story they want without telling a lie. In college I dated a girl in her first year of law school. This technique was something they are taught as a 1L (first year). I remember she would have assignments to write the arguments for both sides using the same set of facts. Made me realize that a good lawyer can convince a jury of anything.
- umvi 6y ago
  The media can do the same - tell any story they want from the facts. And that's how you end up with headlines about "fiery but mostly peaceful protests"

anfilt 6y ago

One of the charges is "trafficking in circumvention devices" that's a huge concern! If they are successfully charged as such it's going to set a horrible precedent!

bitwize 6y ago
People have been convicted under the anticircumvention provisions of the DMCA before. The law explicitly says it's a crime.
- monocasa 6y ago
  They live in France and Shenzhen. Are circumvention devices illegal there?
  - bitwize 6y ago
    In France, almost certainly. The DMCA was implemented under the auspices of a WIPO treaty which mandates anticircumvention legislation.
    - monocasa 6y ago
      I don't think DADVSI's anti circumvention provisions have been tested in court.
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    I remember VLC reading many years ago that VLC could do what it did, playing region-locked DVDs, because the French author could legally implement circumvention methods into VLC. However, America's focus in free trade negotiations over the past decade and perhaps longer have been protecting their intellectual property. For example, due to America's pressure and as a part of the New NAFTA negotiations, Canada agreed to increase its copyright term from life + 50 to life + 70 years. I wouldn't be surprised if what was once legal in France has become illegal since. Decades ago, US decided it wanted banks everywhere to follow American regulations. It was a resounding success. That's why US can now block Iran from trading with the rest of the world through national legislation rather than international sanctions, or make Canada hand over a Chinese national to be prosecuted in the US for alleged crimes done in Hong Kong. Now that banking is done, the new frontier is intellectual property. I expect national laws everywhere to one by one become like US laws.

rbecker 6y ago

> sold illegal devices that hacked popular videogame consoles so they could be used to play unauthorized, or pirated, copies of videogames How long until that turns into "sold illegal devices that hacked popular smartphones so they could be used to run unauthorized, or pirated, copies of apps"? How long for PCs?

atomi 6y ago
It all depends on their budget.

the_only_law 6y ago

Didn't some guy get prison time for selling a book explaining how or some tools to unlock cable modems several years ago?

cbozeman 6y ago
His book publisher stuck behind him... https://nostarch.com/blog/thoughts-indictment-ryan-harris-hacking-cable-modem-author.htm https://nostarch.com/blog/thoughts-indictment-ryan-harris-ha...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]