5 ms·

You know the problem with advice from rich/already successful people? They operate within the environment that dozens of people daily are coming up to them and

You know the problem with advice from rich/already successful people? They operate within the environment that dozens of people daily are coming up to them and giving them opportunities to choose among new ventures, investing opportunities, charities to lead, ways to spend their money. Of course, duh, if that's your life, then go ahead and pick and choose, pass up things that others offer you, making your life only better and more focused. The problem is they forget when they were hungry, unrecognized, struggling-to-make-their-name, more-time-than-money people. When no one was knocking on their door wanting to talk to them. When they were saddled with thousands in student loan debt maybe. Or maybe they were never any of these things. The normal person is starved for opportunities to advance, to be recognized, to try out new things. The average Joe doesn't get a lot of things to say "no" to. The average person doesn't have a life mission of what to do with their vast wealth and time remaining on Earth, like a Warren Buffett does. Sure, feel absolutely free to say no to fixing GM cars because your passion is Aston Martins, or how about not waiting tables today because you really want to be a cook? Or, for that matter, saying that you don't want this group of Jira tickets on infrastructure because you really want to do UI? Hm? For many (maybe most) people, life is a combination of random walks that you say "yes" to many of the paths you come across, and hope that it leads you somewhere good. Having choices is a luxury. Don't forget that. I will say that yes, you should have perspective and opinion about what you want to do, and not want to do in life, and what paths you want to go down. And you should work every day to build up the ability to have choices. But most people operate within far more constraints than these celebrities and don't have such luxury to be passing up new opportunities. This is like lottery winners telling people how to succeed in life. Fun, but dangerous for the average listener. You go and try being as obnoxious and choosing to focus as Steve Jobs, and please report back...

DoreenMichele 6y ago
I'm a former homemaker who is desperately poor, but my life works vastly better than it is supposed to. Numbers six and seven in the article very much resonate with me: 6. They say no to giving the steering wheel of life to anyone else. Another Buffett quote affirms this: "You've gotta keep control of your time and you can't unless you say no. You can't let people set your agenda in life." 7. They say no to people-pleasing. Successful people don't neglect their deepest wishes and desires to accommodate and yield to others' wishes and desires. As a woman, I find that pretty much everyone thinks I should do stuff for them "out of the goodness of my heart" and, no, it doesn't come back to me as career networking or some crap. I was literally homeless for years and people would be all gushy about what a wonderful person I was and how much value I added to both HN and other forums and then be all basically "STFU and stop whining at me, you worthless bitch" if I was all "That's great, but I can't fucking afford to eat. Can I get some help trying to establish an income here if you think I'm so wonderful?" Nope. Absolutely not. So one of the ways I have slowly begun making my life work is by walking away from a zillion opportunities to be a chump and be helpful to people who will never, ever, ever, ever do a fucking thing in return for me. It hasn't made me a millionaire, but I have saved millions on what my medical condition is supposed to cost, so it is clearly worth real money and never mind how dirt poor I remain, in part due to rampant and blatant sexism while everyone acts like I am higher than a kite for pointing that fact out.
- endymi0n 6y ago
  I think this gets closer to the original core of the story. Time is the only and ultimate non-renewable resource, no matter how poor or rich you are. Yes, if you're poor, this forces many more external decisions on you than if you had the money to be able to say no — but in almost any other case, you have some autonomy left on some part of your day and life. And how we use that tiny bit of autonomy to either play games or learn something new can make or break a career.
- stuntkite 6y ago
  This right here is the straight dope. I've worked my way from zero a few times and now have some assets as I approach 40. Wealthy people see the poor as consumables thirsty for opportunity. Also while climbing the ladder there are tons of people who are just closeted sociopathic sadists who have no assets but just get off on manipulation. Another thing I learned was when the work gets to be worth over about $250,000 it's hard to tell the difference between funded people with vision and trust fund kids that have disbursements over some interval if they are building something so they do not plan to succeed. They intend to use me as a therapist and prostitute while they grind it to zero and start again. The only method I've found that works for transitioning class is to make rich people feel like they are missing out on something they can't buy. Being an appropriately confident jerk that is willing to starve rather than give them an endless loop of scope creep. Charge more than even I think I am worth and when they tell me that's too much politely tell them good luck. It cuts down on the noise of non-serious actors and makes people that want to be serious take note. I barely have an inkling of how hard that would be if I wasn't a white man with an abnormally deep voice. I've seen how women and people color are discounted and expected to be silent when speaking real truth and someone who sounds like what bossman thinks reflects them gets boosted without question. What a mess. Glad you saw through the "rules" of the game and made it work for you. Cheers.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    I applied for a local economic development job nearly three years ago. They hired someone else. I kept showing up at public meetings and serving as a volunteer. I was openly attacked, dismissed and criticized. Later, they would implement my suggestions (badly -- they couldn't actually get it right) and take credit and pretend I hadn't been the person who originally suggested it. I finally quit all my volunteer work because everyone in town knows I am dirt poor and they are stealing my ideas and not helping me establish an earned income of my own while pretending they are doing economic development. The guy they hired for the job I applied to finally put up a website like a couple of weeks ago after having the job for 2.5 years. I dragged it on one my blogs and within hours of me saying "He should do X on his website" he would make edits in line with that. This happened three days in row. I finally took all the posts down. So he is cyberstalking me to continue stealing ideas from me. I'm trying to figure out how to establish my own company. I can't believe this guy still has this job, he's so incompetent. But, I mean, he has the right bits between his legs and I guess that's all that really matters. It's infuriating. I really appreciate your comment.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
seg_lol 6y ago
Interesting, your viewpoint made me realize that they are probably right but the argument is kinda of skewed. Rather than successful people say, "No", successful people are in place to pick and choose what projects to say no to. How can we modify our environment, our skills, our place in the graph of actions and results so that we have things to say no to. We need to differentiate ourselves, have purpose, be needed and have things to offer that others want. Some compete head on and try to become the best in something, others rush to what is new, but the ultimate destinations are similar. One stands out in some metric. Sounds like the advice now reads, differentiate yourself and broadcast your capabilities so that you have the opportunity to say, "No". And it isn't ultimately the "No", it is the "Yes" to the right project but they are rare, so we need numbers to find the right opportunities.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  I agree. Choices are like wealth/money. You need to build it up before you can use them (practically). Some people are born with / work their way to / create the bank of choices for themselves. Others find themselves down roads where they don't have the money/bank of credibility, experience to make choices freely. The wealthy often think that everyone has the same choices as they do. As if it were just like the amount of $ they do. You might have choices, but to use them you need to create the margin for yourself to do so.
  - seg_lol 6y ago
    I agree as well, and this shouldn't be construed as boot-straps meritocracy argument, but I really really think that the combination of Open Source and the ability to spread ideas on email, this forum, chat, youtube, etc really puts at an exciting point in history where powerful ideas and transformation is within reach for billions of people. We have so many ways to give folks opportunities that don't have that. How do we create structures and patterns that maximizes the opportunities that people have to differentiate themselves and have those choices?
dgudkov 6y ago
My initial thought was similar, but then I changed my mind. The difference between the people who don't have many choices and those who do is not money or wealth. It's whether they do what someone wants them to do, or they do what they want to do. It turns out when you do what someone else wants you to do, your choices are rather limited. But once you have a goal and you struggle to achieve it, then you suddenly have lots of distractions, lots of ideas how to achieve it in different ways, lots of ideas about alternative goals, and little time to spend with your inner social circle. So you have to choose very carefully what to do, and what not to do.
- robenkleene 6y ago
  How do you support yourself without doing what someone else wants you to do?
  - dgudkov 6y ago
    By finding people that need or appreciate what I like to do and making them my customers. PS. I have to admit I'm lucky to like doing something that also pays off well. Not everybody is that lucky.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

I'm a former homemaker who is desperately poor, but my life works vastly better than it is supposed to. Numbers six and seven in the article very much resonate with me: 6. They say no to giving the steering wheel of life to anyone else. Another Buffett quote affirms this: "You've gotta keep control of your time and you can't unless you say no. You can't let people set your agenda in life." 7. They say no to people-pleasing. Successful people don't neglect their deepest wishes and desires to accommodate and yield to others' wishes and desires. As a woman, I find that pretty much everyone thinks I should do stuff for them "out of the goodness of my heart" and, no, it doesn't come back to me as career networking or some crap. I was literally homeless for years and people would be all gushy about what a wonderful person I was and how much value I added to both HN and other forums and then be all basically "STFU and stop whining at me, you worthless bitch" if I was all "That's great, but I can't fucking afford to eat. Can I get some help trying to establish an income here if you think I'm so wonderful?" Nope. Absolutely not. So one of the ways I have slowly begun making my life work is by walking away from a zillion opportunities to be a chump and be helpful to people who will never, ever, ever, ever do a fucking thing in return for me. It hasn't made me a millionaire, but I have saved millions on what my medical condition is supposed to cost, so it is clearly worth real money and never mind how dirt poor I remain, in part due to rampant and blatant sexism while everyone acts like I am higher than a kite for pointing that fact out.

endymi0n 6y ago
I think this gets closer to the original core of the story. Time is the only and ultimate non-renewable resource, no matter how poor or rich you are. Yes, if you're poor, this forces many more external decisions on you than if you had the money to be able to say no — but in almost any other case, you have some autonomy left on some part of your day and life. And how we use that tiny bit of autonomy to either play games or learn something new can make or break a career.
stuntkite 6y ago
This right here is the straight dope. I've worked my way from zero a few times and now have some assets as I approach 40. Wealthy people see the poor as consumables thirsty for opportunity. Also while climbing the ladder there are tons of people who are just closeted sociopathic sadists who have no assets but just get off on manipulation. Another thing I learned was when the work gets to be worth over about $250,000 it's hard to tell the difference between funded people with vision and trust fund kids that have disbursements over some interval if they are building something so they do not plan to succeed. They intend to use me as a therapist and prostitute while they grind it to zero and start again. The only method I've found that works for transitioning class is to make rich people feel like they are missing out on something they can't buy. Being an appropriately confident jerk that is willing to starve rather than give them an endless loop of scope creep. Charge more than even I think I am worth and when they tell me that's too much politely tell them good luck. It cuts down on the noise of non-serious actors and makes people that want to be serious take note. I barely have an inkling of how hard that would be if I wasn't a white man with an abnormally deep voice. I've seen how women and people color are discounted and expected to be silent when speaking real truth and someone who sounds like what bossman thinks reflects them gets boosted without question. What a mess. Glad you saw through the "rules" of the game and made it work for you. Cheers.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I applied for a local economic development job nearly three years ago. They hired someone else. I kept showing up at public meetings and serving as a volunteer. I was openly attacked, dismissed and criticized. Later, they would implement my suggestions (badly -- they couldn't actually get it right) and take credit and pretend I hadn't been the person who originally suggested it. I finally quit all my volunteer work because everyone in town knows I am dirt poor and they are stealing my ideas and not helping me establish an earned income of my own while pretending they are doing economic development. The guy they hired for the job I applied to finally put up a website like a couple of weeks ago after having the job for 2.5 years. I dragged it on one my blogs and within hours of me saying "He should do X on his website" he would make edits in line with that. This happened three days in row. I finally took all the posts down. So he is cyberstalking me to continue stealing ideas from me. I'm trying to figure out how to establish my own company. I can't believe this guy still has this job, he's so incompetent. But, I mean, he has the right bits between his legs and I guess that's all that really matters. It's infuriating. I really appreciate your comment.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

seg_lol 6y ago

Interesting, your viewpoint made me realize that they are probably right but the argument is kinda of skewed. Rather than successful people say, "No", successful people are in place to pick and choose what projects to say no to. How can we modify our environment, our skills, our place in the graph of actions and results so that we have things to say no to. We need to differentiate ourselves, have purpose, be needed and have things to offer that others want. Some compete head on and try to become the best in something, others rush to what is new, but the ultimate destinations are similar. One stands out in some metric. Sounds like the advice now reads, differentiate yourself and broadcast your capabilities so that you have the opportunity to say, "No". And it isn't ultimately the "No", it is the "Yes" to the right project but they are rare, so we need numbers to find the right opportunities.

supernova87a 6y ago
I agree. Choices are like wealth/money. You need to build it up before you can use them (practically). Some people are born with / work their way to / create the bank of choices for themselves. Others find themselves down roads where they don't have the money/bank of credibility, experience to make choices freely. The wealthy often think that everyone has the same choices as they do. As if it were just like the amount of $ they do. You might have choices, but to use them you need to create the margin for yourself to do so.
- seg_lol 6y ago
  I agree as well, and this shouldn't be construed as boot-straps meritocracy argument, but I really really think that the combination of Open Source and the ability to spread ideas on email, this forum, chat, youtube, etc really puts at an exciting point in history where powerful ideas and transformation is within reach for billions of people. We have so many ways to give folks opportunities that don't have that. How do we create structures and patterns that maximizes the opportunities that people have to differentiate themselves and have those choices?

dgudkov 6y ago

My initial thought was similar, but then I changed my mind. The difference between the people who don't have many choices and those who do is not money or wealth. It's whether they do what someone wants them to do, or they do what they want to do. It turns out when you do what someone else wants you to do, your choices are rather limited. But once you have a goal and you struggle to achieve it, then you suddenly have lots of distractions, lots of ideas how to achieve it in different ways, lots of ideas about alternative goals, and little time to spend with your inner social circle. So you have to choose very carefully what to do, and what not to do.

robenkleene 6y ago
How do you support yourself without doing what someone else wants you to do?
- dgudkov 6y ago
  By finding people that need or appreciate what I like to do and making them my customers. PS. I have to admit I'm lucky to like doing something that also pays off well. Not everybody is that lucky.