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Lets say you buy one of these recycled phones that Apple has already deemed unfixable. Maybe it mostly works, but the screen occasionally blacks out or there's

Lets say you buy one of these recycled phones that Apple has already deemed unfixable. Maybe it mostly works, but the screen occasionally blacks out or there's a bunch of dead pixels. Maybe the battery dies almost immediately. It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Then I guess we need to double-down on allowing this, in order to normalize second-hand/recycled hardware across the society. Then Apple's reputation will be invulnerable, as any random complaint about iPhones on the Internet will be counterable by "surely you bought a third-party refurb from your local recycler".
- Joker_vD 6y ago
  And whatever warranty may be legally obliged to exits, it falls on that local recycler (or maybe they explicitly have to sell it without warranty, but then the redistributors have to either also explicitly sell without warranty or take the warranty obligations on themselves). I mean, it's not like it's a completely new development, the secondary markets have been existing for centuries, and generally either you buy second-hand from an individual in which case caveat emptor, or from a firm/some sort of legal entity, in which case it's their problem to provide some basic level of customer protection, but definitely not on the original producer.
doyouevensunbro 6y ago
I’m wondering if you could just engrave into these devices that they were “reclaimed” or “recycled” so that it’s clear that Apple no longer is on the hook but people can still use if they choose to do so.
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  They will just have to further disable the phones before sending them for recycling. Doesn’t seem like a big problem.
- franga2000 6y ago
  Basically nobody is selling recycled iPhones as if they were new. Apple has an impressive amount of control over their retail channels and buyers aren't idiots. The problem for Apple isn't that people would think their refurb iPhones were new, it's that Apple simply doesn't want poor people to have them because it might hurt their sale of 700$ computer wheels if they don't seem like a luxury brand. As a bonus, if they destroy all the broken devices, repair shops have no access to replacement parts and so there's nobody to challenge them when they tell you to buy a new 1000$ phone because yours has an "irreparable" bent flex cable pin.
ggrrhh_ta 6y ago
You don't need to do anything fancy. Just say it is not new. People do that all the time with practically every physical item.
andrewjl 6y ago
Why is Apple's reputation more important than the profits of a recycling company? Contracts aside, banning resale over something like this isn't capitalism. You either own something or you don't. Edit: I misunderstood the article and thought that the devices were sold. Indeed a service contract for recycling should be enforced, unless health & safety reasons preclude. Apple is in the right here, I think.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  What is the purpose of discussing a made up scenario? Obviously there are contract terms that Geep violated, and it even admitted it by blaming it on its employees. I don't know what you mean by capitalism, but two businesses voluntarily entering into a contract, and then litigating when one of them breaks the terms of the contract is pretty normal stuff for any society, capitalist or not.
  - andrewjl 6y ago
    Edit: I misunderstood the article and thought that the devices were sold. Indeed a service contract for recycling should be enforced, unless health & safety reasons preclude.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Why?
- jmole 6y ago
  lol, imagine you paid a company to recycle old hard drives or documents and they resold them instead.
  - andrewjl 6y ago
    You're right. I misunderstood the article and edited my comments.
  - franga2000 6y ago
rob74 6y ago
Or they are devices that were traded in (https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in) for a new iPhone and are still working fine, but Apple wants destroyed so that they don't erode their market?
mortenjorck 6y ago
This is really the critical question here: Are these phones actually unfixable? If they are, reusing them will only cause more problems (not to mention burning more fossil fuels as they are shipped to consumers and then shipped back within a few months for recycling a second time). If they aren't, then recycling is the wrong destination for these units.
- franga2000 6y ago
  Well if they were unfixable, the company surely wouldn't have been able to re-sell them, would it? A refurbishing company whose phones die within a few months wouldn't survive for long, and that's generally not how hardware defects work anyways. Things you can "patch up" only temporarily are very uncommon, so these devices would probably get an extra year of life at the very least, offsetting any possible shipping "cost". And even those that can't be repaired in the Archimede's ship sense, would go to shops like Rossman Repair Group that would use them for parts in fixing other damaged devices. Even if they only use one dead phone to fix one damaged one, that is still a net positive than if the damaged one would've had to be fully replaced.
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
From the article it seems they're far more concerned with not getting their cut of the resale profits.
izacus 6y ago
> It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this. We should care more about the sustainability of environment, consumer benefit and consumer rights and not the reputation of rich megacorporations.
- ksk 6y ago
  It's a fake argument anyway. People perfectly understand that when they buy a used car, it could have had damage from the previous owner or other wear and tear. Is this common-sense somehow magically forgotten when Apple is concerned?
  - fortran77 6y ago
    > Is this common-sense somehow magically forgotten when Apple is concerned? I think we all know the answer to this.
  - danaris 6y ago
    > People perfectly understand that when they buy a used car, it could have had damage from the previous owner or other wear and tear. Sure, some people do. Other people will have a problem with whatever they happen to be using, find the first logo or name on it, and go complain at that entity through any communications channel they can find, totally ignoring them saying, "Yes, I understand your used Ford Taurus won't start, but you've called the number of the company that makes the aftermarket stereo system you installed."
    - ksk 6y ago
      Yeah and maybe some people blamed Obama when their car wouldn't start, or people blame the restaurant when they spill hot coffee over themselves. There's a lot of things "some people do". With all due respect to those "some people", there is a limit to how much we coddle "some people" at the expense of generating more e-waste. Apple (and everyone else) should be held accountable for the damage they're causing to the environment by preventing repair of their products. Do you expect Microsoft to ban Firefox and Chrome because "some people" might call up their helpline when Firefox and Chrome have bugs? At some point, it gets ridiculous.
ksk 6y ago
What a silly reason to ruin the environment! Apple (and to be fair most electronics companies) are already designing irreparable land-fill-ready devices. We have companies who are willing to do the hard work of repairing/refurbishing them to prolong their life-span, only to have Apple block them.
- RandallBrown 6y ago
  Apple already sells refurbished phones. Presumably the phones they send to the recycling company they've deemed unrepairable to their standards. I don't think this company is necessarily selling working iPhones.
  - ksk 6y ago
    Yeah, repair companies often buy these broken devices so they can salvage parts. Its really sad that they're forced to do this as Apple forces third-party parts manufacturers to only sell parts to them. Its ironic, since Apple doesn't do board/circuit repair anyway, they just replace the entire mainboard, generating even more e-waste.
Thorncorona 6y ago
> It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this. I guess we can't buy used or salvaged cars either now. Can't have manufacturers' reputations tarnished. What a load of crock.
rvense 6y ago
> It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this. Hail corporate. What about all the water that got tainted when the semiconductors were made, all the people who were hurt when the minerals were mined, all the energy that was expended... Apple have sold the product once and made their money, they do not get to decide when that object's useful life is up. If anything, they should be forced to open it up more, to make it even more useful for even longer. If you look at what goes into making electronics, the impact this industry has, these items should be so precious. They should be made to last and be useful for decades.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
michaelmrose 6y ago
Based on that logic you would have to ban all transfers of goods except retail of new goods and "authorized" resale via partners under the term the vendor allows. For example you could start by banning the sale of all used cars.
umvi 6y ago
Also if you can buy a cheap recycled iPhone that works, that's a new iPhone you didn't buy from Apple. Same reason video game industry hates used games market.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

Then I guess we need to double-down on allowing this, in order to normalize second-hand/recycled hardware across the society. Then Apple's reputation will be invulnerable, as any random complaint about iPhones on the Internet will be counterable by "surely you bought a third-party refurb from your local recycler".

Joker_vD 6y ago
And whatever warranty may be legally obliged to exits, it falls on that local recycler (or maybe they explicitly have to sell it without warranty, but then the redistributors have to either also explicitly sell without warranty or take the warranty obligations on themselves). I mean, it's not like it's a completely new development, the secondary markets have been existing for centuries, and generally either you buy second-hand from an individual in which case caveat emptor, or from a firm/some sort of legal entity, in which case it's their problem to provide some basic level of customer protection, but definitely not on the original producer.

doyouevensunbro 6y ago

I’m wondering if you could just engrave into these devices that they were “reclaimed” or “recycled” so that it’s clear that Apple no longer is on the hook but people can still use if they choose to do so.

birdyrooster 6y ago
They will just have to further disable the phones before sending them for recycling. Doesn’t seem like a big problem.
franga2000 6y ago
Basically nobody is selling recycled iPhones as if they were new. Apple has an impressive amount of control over their retail channels and buyers aren't idiots. The problem for Apple isn't that people would think their refurb iPhones were new, it's that Apple simply doesn't want poor people to have them because it might hurt their sale of 700$ computer wheels if they don't seem like a luxury brand. As a bonus, if they destroy all the broken devices, repair shops have no access to replacement parts and so there's nobody to challenge them when they tell you to buy a new 1000$ phone because yours has an "irreparable" bent flex cable pin.

ggrrhh_ta 6y ago

You don't need to do anything fancy. Just say it is not new. People do that all the time with practically every physical item.

andrewjl 6y ago

Why is Apple's reputation more important than the profits of a recycling company? Contracts aside, banning resale over something like this isn't capitalism. You either own something or you don't. Edit: I misunderstood the article and thought that the devices were sold. Indeed a service contract for recycling should be enforced, unless health & safety reasons preclude. Apple is in the right here, I think.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
What is the purpose of discussing a made up scenario? Obviously there are contract terms that Geep violated, and it even admitted it by blaming it on its employees. I don't know what you mean by capitalism, but two businesses voluntarily entering into a contract, and then litigating when one of them breaks the terms of the contract is pretty normal stuff for any society, capitalist or not.
- andrewjl 6y ago
  Edit: I misunderstood the article and thought that the devices were sold. Indeed a service contract for recycling should be enforced, unless health & safety reasons preclude.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Why?
jmole 6y ago
lol, imagine you paid a company to recycle old hard drives or documents and they resold them instead.
- andrewjl 6y ago
  You're right. I misunderstood the article and edited my comments.
- franga2000 6y ago

rob74 6y ago

Or they are devices that were traded in (https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in) for a new iPhone and are still working fine, but Apple wants destroyed so that they don't erode their market?

mortenjorck 6y ago

This is really the critical question here: Are these phones actually unfixable? If they are, reusing them will only cause more problems (not to mention burning more fossil fuels as they are shipped to consumers and then shipped back within a few months for recycling a second time). If they aren't, then recycling is the wrong destination for these units.

franga2000 6y ago
Well if they were unfixable, the company surely wouldn't have been able to re-sell them, would it? A refurbishing company whose phones die within a few months wouldn't survive for long, and that's generally not how hardware defects work anyways. Things you can "patch up" only temporarily are very uncommon, so these devices would probably get an extra year of life at the very least, offsetting any possible shipping "cost". And even those that can't be repaired in the Archimede's ship sense, would go to shops like Rossman Repair Group that would use them for parts in fixing other damaged devices. Even if they only use one dead phone to fix one damaged one, that is still a net positive than if the damaged one would've had to be fully replaced.

whywhywhywhy 6y ago

From the article it seems they're far more concerned with not getting their cut of the resale profits.

izacus 6y ago

> It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this. We should care more about the sustainability of environment, consumer benefit and consumer rights and not the reputation of rich megacorporations.

ksk 6y ago
It's a fake argument anyway. People perfectly understand that when they buy a used car, it could have had damage from the previous owner or other wear and tear. Is this common-sense somehow magically forgotten when Apple is concerned?
- fortran77 6y ago
  > Is this common-sense somehow magically forgotten when Apple is concerned? I think we all know the answer to this.
- danaris 6y ago
  > People perfectly understand that when they buy a used car, it could have had damage from the previous owner or other wear and tear. Sure, some people do. Other people will have a problem with whatever they happen to be using, find the first logo or name on it, and go complain at that entity through any communications channel they can find, totally ignoring them saying, "Yes, I understand your used Ford Taurus won't start, but you've called the number of the company that makes the aftermarket stereo system you installed."
  - ksk 6y ago
    Yeah and maybe some people blamed Obama when their car wouldn't start, or people blame the restaurant when they spill hot coffee over themselves. There's a lot of things "some people do". With all due respect to those "some people", there is a limit to how much we coddle "some people" at the expense of generating more e-waste. Apple (and everyone else) should be held accountable for the damage they're causing to the environment by preventing repair of their products. Do you expect Microsoft to ban Firefox and Chrome because "some people" might call up their helpline when Firefox and Chrome have bugs? At some point, it gets ridiculous.

ksk 6y ago

What a silly reason to ruin the environment! Apple (and to be fair most electronics companies) are already designing irreparable land-fill-ready devices. We have companies who are willing to do the hard work of repairing/refurbishing them to prolong their life-span, only to have Apple block them.

RandallBrown 6y ago
Apple already sells refurbished phones. Presumably the phones they send to the recycling company they've deemed unrepairable to their standards. I don't think this company is necessarily selling working iPhones.
- ksk 6y ago
  Yeah, repair companies often buy these broken devices so they can salvage parts. Its really sad that they're forced to do this as Apple forces third-party parts manufacturers to only sell parts to them. Its ironic, since Apple doesn't do board/circuit repair anyway, they just replace the entire mainboard, generating even more e-waste.

Thorncorona 6y ago

> It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this. I guess we can't buy used or salvaged cars either now. Can't have manufacturers' reputations tarnished. What a load of crock.

rvense 6y ago

> It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this. Hail corporate. What about all the water that got tainted when the semiconductors were made, all the people who were hurt when the minerals were mined, all the energy that was expended... Apple have sold the product once and made their money, they do not get to decide when that object's useful life is up. If anything, they should be forced to open it up more, to make it even more useful for even longer. If you look at what goes into making electronics, the impact this industry has, these items should be so precious. They should be made to last and be useful for decades.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

michaelmrose 6y ago

Based on that logic you would have to ban all transfers of goods except retail of new goods and "authorized" resale via partners under the term the vendor allows. For example you could start by banning the sale of all used cars.

umvi 6y ago

Also if you can buy a cheap recycled iPhone that works, that's a new iPhone you didn't buy from Apple. Same reason video game industry hates used games market.