12 ms·

If you own an Internet-connected TV, you've been seeing these for 2 years or more. I submitted it 11 months ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21427405 h

If you own an Internet-connected TV, you've been seeing these for 2 years or more. I submitted it 11 months ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21427405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21427405) and it wasn't new then. The ACR-based retargeting audiences (https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-ad-retargeting/ https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-...) are probably the most offensive. For example: "Reach viewers who saw your competitor’s ads as quickly as 60 seconds after linear ad airing." Since they're capturing and analyzing screenshots from all TV inputs (even HDMI sources), they can target based on not just what you're watching, but which ads you've seen. Games, movies, apps, whatever - they're capturing the actual image you're seeing in realtime. I maintain a list of deep links to opt-out of data collection and sharing, mostly just because it pisses me off: https://simpleoptout.com/ https://simpleoptout.com/ . My site includes all of the TV manufacturers and TV OSes, but Samsung is easily the worst. As I wrote: "distinctly less customer-friendly than its peer companies. If it can be retained and shared, it probably is."

altdatathrow 6y ago
ACR sourced data sells like hot cakes in the alternative data world. You can literally know what an individual (“anonymized”) person watches and when.
- stevehawk 6y ago
  where/how does one purchase that data?
  - altdatathrow 6y ago
    inscape.tv (every vizio tv, that's why they're so cheap), nielsen (gracenote), ispot.tv, samba.tv, alphonso.tv, 605.tv, placed.com, truoptik, and others Many double as ad/analytics platforms but they'll gladly sell viewership data.
    - xtat 6y ago
      i once met the ceo of one of these and i cant describe on how many levels they seemed to be an outright tech and human hostile sociopath
  - troydavis 6y ago
    "The Marketer’s Guide To ACR" has a rundown: https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-guide-to-acr-tech-in-smart-tvs/ https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-g... . Of those who sell the raw data, Inscape (Vizio) and Gracenote (Nielsen) are the largest: https://www.inscape.tv/ https://www.inscape.tv/, https://www.gracenote.com/video/media-recognition/ https://www.gracenote.com/video/media-recognition/
TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
> If you own an Internet-connected TV, you've been seeing these for 2 years or more How to prevent all Samsung tracking and advertising: 1. Factory reset your Samsung TV. 2. When promoted to accept the Samsung EULA, select no/reject 3. Attach computer or streaming stick to Samsung HDMI port (Windows, mac, chromebook, appleTV, chromecast, Amazon Firestick, Roku stick). I use an ancient PC with Linux Mint installed. You can use KODI or Plex if you like that interface, but I don’t. 4. Select that HDMI input on the TV. 5. Enjoy streaming video with Samsung-free ads and Samsung-free tracking Optional but recommended: Logitech wireless K400 keyboard/touchpad ($20)
- creddit 6y ago
  Or just like not even connect it to the internet at all?
  - overlordalex 6y ago
    There's reports of some models connecting to any open wifi networks, which would include your neighbours. And it's only a matter of time until they come with built-in sim cards
    - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
      Free Internet... just buy this shitty TV, and return it :P
    - centimeter 6y ago
      Recent model toyota vehicles come with a "telematics" unit with a built-in SIM card that sends GPS data, driving data, video from the front camera, etc. to Toyota and the "agreement" in the manual says they can do ~whatever they want with it. If you power down the telematics module (by removing the fuse), the carplay microphone doesn't work (because the microphone runs through the telematics module). If you remove or cut the antenna on the module, you get a Check Engine light, which means you can't register your vehicle in many states. You have to call toyota, ask them to turn off all the data collection, and hope they really do it. It's really sad to see a historically very good car company fall so far.
JaimeThompson 6y ago
Does an external Roku device collect ACR based data?
- altdatathrow 6y ago
  Yes, but currently only for their own usage from external devices or TVs that run Roku TV. They don't sell nor license the data.
- troydavis 6y ago
  You'll see highly targeted ads on all Roku devices -- like based on what you search for and which show/movie listings you view. However, AFAIK ACR is only on when Roku the TV OS. AFAIK, for ACR, it's on when Roku is the TV OS but off when Roku is a standalone device. They don't make that totally clear, though, so you should check the device. That said, even for standalone devices, there's plenty of other data to target with. You can see the marketer-facing view here: https://advertising.roku.com/ https://advertising.roku.com/, https://advertising.roku.com/advertiser-solutions https://advertising.roku.com/advertiser-solutions On all Roku devices, these are collected and can be used for ad targeting (https://docs.roku.com/published/userprivacypolicy/en/us https://docs.roku.com/published/userprivacypolicy/en/us): > We receive information about your interactions with the Roku Services, such as your browsing history, search history, search results, audio information when you use voice-enabled features, channels you access (including usage statistics such as what channels you access, the time you access them, and how long you spend viewing them), interactions with content and ads, and settings and preferences. Like Samsung, TVs running Roku's OS use ACR and target ads based on that data: > When you use a Roku TV with the Smart TV experience enabled, we use Automatic Content Recognition (“ACR”) technology to receive information about what live television content you watch via the Roku TV’s antenna, and what you watch via devices connected to your Roku TV, including cable and satellite set top boxes. For example, we receive TV viewing information such as the programs, commercials, and channels you view, the date, time and duration of the viewing, and how you use the on-screen TV guide. We receive TV viewing information both when you access live TV directly through your Smart TV’s interface and when you access live TV from within a Third-Party Channel. If the Smart TV experience is enabled on your Roku TV, we will use this information to personalize your TV viewing experience and ads.
stallmanite 6y ago
So if I’m using a Samsung TV as a monitor and working on sensitive or classified material the damn thing is taking screenshots and uploading them? Yikes
- ReactiveJelly 6y ago
  If the user doesn't control the software, the software controls the user. Don't give them network access.
  - pixl97 6y ago
    10 years from now "All smart TVs come with a 5G network adapter built in to keep in touch with the ad networks"
    - qes 6y ago
      "How to desolder power from your built in 5G network adapter" I give it 20 years before we have to root our TV's to disable tracking while keeping it functional - and that might be optimistic - the industry could get there in under 10 if they tried hard.
- asldihgiyug 6y ago
  If you're using it as a monitor, why would you still connect it to the internet?
  - stallmanite 6y ago
    Hypothetically because I’d be using it as a monitor part time and using the built in shit the other part of the time? In actuality I do as you suggest and don’t ever connect the thing to the internet. Operation Weeping Angel was enough to convince me of that. https://krebsonsecurity.com/tag/weeping-angel/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/tag/weeping-angel/
- m463 6y ago
  It's funny, but I bought a dell monitor and I downloaded the manuals. One of them was an unexpected white paper, which contained this statement: Statement of Volatility – Dell U3219Q Monitor The purpose of this document is to certify that the Dell U3219Q monitor will not save, retain, or reproduce a signal to any internal or external component after power has been removed and reapplied to the unit. The Dell U3219Q monitor contains both volatile and non-volatile (NV) memory ICs. Volatile memory(s) lose their data immediately upon removal of power. Non-volatile memory ICs continue to retain their data even after the power has been removed. However, no input video data is written into these memory ICs during operation. List below contains volatile and non volatile memory ICs used in the Dell U3219Q monitor." Then it had a table for each storage chip within the monitor with its purpose and characteristics including: - system eeprom - hdmi edid eeprom - system flash rom - usb hub eeprom - pd controller flash rom
xoxoy 6y ago
this is Roku’s entire business model as well shrug
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
matheusmoreira 6y ago
How can we block all of this? Is Pi-hole sufficient?
- anon776 6y ago
  There is a block list you can get for pi-hole for these smart TVs. My samsung TV is the highest blocked device on my home network currently.
- greenbush 6y ago
  For those that aren't running Pi-hole, you can use NextDNS instead on all your devices and router ... and it has a Samsung blocklist that you can enable easily.
- tclancy 6y ago
  It seems to be. I had to white list one or two domains to make it all work again. In retrospect, that may have been for a free service they since broke so maybe I should rip those out too.
- halter73 6y ago
  Before I disconnected my Samsung TV from the internet, it was responsible for the majority of DNS queries blocked by Pi-hole on my home network. I'm not sure if it blocked everything though.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    Soon it won't be enough with DNS over HTTPS becoming more popular. It's probably still ok to use pihole, but if you want to be safer, you'll have to block https to 1.1.1.1 (and other providers) as well. Or ideally, block by source not by destination.
- fapjacks 6y ago
  NO! Beware! It has been demonstrated by multiple research groups [0] that Pi-hole DOES NOT stop this tracking by your televisions. I hated having to type that sentence. The future is stupid. [0] https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1177570679232876544 https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1177570679232876544

altdatathrow 6y ago

ACR sourced data sells like hot cakes in the alternative data world. You can literally know what an individual (“anonymized”) person watches and when.

stevehawk 6y ago
where/how does one purchase that data?
- altdatathrow 6y ago
  inscape.tv (every vizio tv, that's why they're so cheap), nielsen (gracenote), ispot.tv, samba.tv, alphonso.tv, 605.tv, placed.com, truoptik, and others Many double as ad/analytics platforms but they'll gladly sell viewership data.
  - xtat 6y ago
    i once met the ceo of one of these and i cant describe on how many levels they seemed to be an outright tech and human hostile sociopath
- troydavis 6y ago
  "The Marketer’s Guide To ACR" has a rundown: https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-guide-to-acr-tech-in-smart-tvs/ https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-g... . Of those who sell the raw data, Inscape (Vizio) and Gracenote (Nielsen) are the largest: https://www.inscape.tv/ https://www.inscape.tv/, https://www.gracenote.com/video/media-recognition/ https://www.gracenote.com/video/media-recognition/

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago

> If you own an Internet-connected TV, you've been seeing these for 2 years or more How to prevent all Samsung tracking and advertising: 1. Factory reset your Samsung TV. 2. When promoted to accept the Samsung EULA, select no/reject 3. Attach computer or streaming stick to Samsung HDMI port (Windows, mac, chromebook, appleTV, chromecast, Amazon Firestick, Roku stick). I use an ancient PC with Linux Mint installed. You can use KODI or Plex if you like that interface, but I don’t. 4. Select that HDMI input on the TV. 5. Enjoy streaming video with Samsung-free ads and Samsung-free tracking Optional but recommended: Logitech wireless K400 keyboard/touchpad ($20)

creddit 6y ago
Or just like not even connect it to the internet at all?
- overlordalex 6y ago
  There's reports of some models connecting to any open wifi networks, which would include your neighbours. And it's only a matter of time until they come with built-in sim cards
  - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
    Free Internet... just buy this shitty TV, and return it :P
  - centimeter 6y ago
    Recent model toyota vehicles come with a "telematics" unit with a built-in SIM card that sends GPS data, driving data, video from the front camera, etc. to Toyota and the "agreement" in the manual says they can do ~whatever they want with it. If you power down the telematics module (by removing the fuse), the carplay microphone doesn't work (because the microphone runs through the telematics module). If you remove or cut the antenna on the module, you get a Check Engine light, which means you can't register your vehicle in many states. You have to call toyota, ask them to turn off all the data collection, and hope they really do it. It's really sad to see a historically very good car company fall so far.

JaimeThompson 6y ago

Does an external Roku device collect ACR based data?

altdatathrow 6y ago
Yes, but currently only for their own usage from external devices or TVs that run Roku TV. They don't sell nor license the data.
troydavis 6y ago
You'll see highly targeted ads on all Roku devices -- like based on what you search for and which show/movie listings you view. However, AFAIK ACR is only on when Roku the TV OS. AFAIK, for ACR, it's on when Roku is the TV OS but off when Roku is a standalone device. They don't make that totally clear, though, so you should check the device. That said, even for standalone devices, there's plenty of other data to target with. You can see the marketer-facing view here: https://advertising.roku.com/ https://advertising.roku.com/, https://advertising.roku.com/advertiser-solutions https://advertising.roku.com/advertiser-solutions On all Roku devices, these are collected and can be used for ad targeting (https://docs.roku.com/published/userprivacypolicy/en/us https://docs.roku.com/published/userprivacypolicy/en/us): > We receive information about your interactions with the Roku Services, such as your browsing history, search history, search results, audio information when you use voice-enabled features, channels you access (including usage statistics such as what channels you access, the time you access them, and how long you spend viewing them), interactions with content and ads, and settings and preferences. Like Samsung, TVs running Roku's OS use ACR and target ads based on that data: > When you use a Roku TV with the Smart TV experience enabled, we use Automatic Content Recognition (“ACR”) technology to receive information about what live television content you watch via the Roku TV’s antenna, and what you watch via devices connected to your Roku TV, including cable and satellite set top boxes. For example, we receive TV viewing information such as the programs, commercials, and channels you view, the date, time and duration of the viewing, and how you use the on-screen TV guide. We receive TV viewing information both when you access live TV directly through your Smart TV’s interface and when you access live TV from within a Third-Party Channel. If the Smart TV experience is enabled on your Roku TV, we will use this information to personalize your TV viewing experience and ads.

stallmanite 6y ago

So if I’m using a Samsung TV as a monitor and working on sensitive or classified material the damn thing is taking screenshots and uploading them? Yikes

ReactiveJelly 6y ago
If the user doesn't control the software, the software controls the user. Don't give them network access.
- pixl97 6y ago
  10 years from now "All smart TVs come with a 5G network adapter built in to keep in touch with the ad networks"
  - qes 6y ago
    "How to desolder power from your built in 5G network adapter" I give it 20 years before we have to root our TV's to disable tracking while keeping it functional - and that might be optimistic - the industry could get there in under 10 if they tried hard.
asldihgiyug 6y ago
If you're using it as a monitor, why would you still connect it to the internet?
- stallmanite 6y ago
  Hypothetically because I’d be using it as a monitor part time and using the built in shit the other part of the time? In actuality I do as you suggest and don’t ever connect the thing to the internet. Operation Weeping Angel was enough to convince me of that. https://krebsonsecurity.com/tag/weeping-angel/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/tag/weeping-angel/
m463 6y ago
It's funny, but I bought a dell monitor and I downloaded the manuals. One of them was an unexpected white paper, which contained this statement: Statement of Volatility – Dell U3219Q Monitor The purpose of this document is to certify that the Dell U3219Q monitor will not save, retain, or reproduce a signal to any internal or external component after power has been removed and reapplied to the unit. The Dell U3219Q monitor contains both volatile and non-volatile (NV) memory ICs. Volatile memory(s) lose their data immediately upon removal of power. Non-volatile memory ICs continue to retain their data even after the power has been removed. However, no input video data is written into these memory ICs during operation. List below contains volatile and non volatile memory ICs used in the Dell U3219Q monitor." Then it had a table for each storage chip within the monitor with its purpose and characteristics including: - system eeprom - hdmi edid eeprom - system flash rom - usb hub eeprom - pd controller flash rom

xoxoy 6y ago

this is Roku’s entire business model as well shrug

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

matheusmoreira 6y ago

How can we block all of this? Is Pi-hole sufficient?

anon776 6y ago
There is a block list you can get for pi-hole for these smart TVs. My samsung TV is the highest blocked device on my home network currently.
greenbush 6y ago
For those that aren't running Pi-hole, you can use NextDNS instead on all your devices and router ... and it has a Samsung blocklist that you can enable easily.
tclancy 6y ago
It seems to be. I had to white list one or two domains to make it all work again. In retrospect, that may have been for a free service they since broke so maybe I should rip those out too.
halter73 6y ago
Before I disconnected my Samsung TV from the internet, it was responsible for the majority of DNS queries blocked by Pi-hole on my home network. I'm not sure if it blocked everything though.
- viraptor 6y ago
  Soon it won't be enough with DNS over HTTPS becoming more popular. It's probably still ok to use pihole, but if you want to be safer, you'll have to block https to 1.1.1.1 (and other providers) as well. Or ideally, block by source not by destination.
fapjacks 6y ago
NO! Beware! It has been demonstrated by multiple research groups [0] that Pi-hole DOES NOT stop this tracking by your televisions. I hated having to type that sentence. The future is stupid. [0] https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1177570679232876544 https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1177570679232876544