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I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for about 2 years and got a kind "we would never have guessed" and "you will get another project then". As a side note: In our country, an employer needs a legitimate reason to do a background check, and they won't see crimes that are not relevant, or for some crimes - too long ago.

AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
A part of that may be a legal requirement for the employers to provide a "safe working environment".
koiz 6y ago
In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  Readers from other countries, what is it like there? I remember when I lived in Australia, my friends told me that many crimes do not show up on background checks after 5 years. Also in Australia, the sex offender registry is confidential, and can only be checked for very specific things (jobs involving children, certain types of housing, etc.) In the US, there are ways of getting records expunged for some crimes, but due to freedom of speech laws/1st amendment, typically background check companies are free to hold on to older records if they were at one time public. I know in the EU, many countries have right to be forgotten laws, but the EFF has historically stood against them due to the fact they've often been used by wealthy individuals to hide their crimes.
  - Ichthypresbyter 6y ago
    In the UK, it's changed recently because of a Supreme Court ruling, but AFAIK there are various levels of check depending on the specific job. In most cases a conviction for which the person was sentenced to less than 4 years in prison will eventually become 'spent' and won't show up on background checks apart from for specific jobs (such as working with children). Even for those jobs, some minor convictions are 'filtered' and removed from the record.
  - ciberado 6y ago
    I worked in the finantial industry 20 years ago in Andorra, a small independent country between France and Spain. You needed to present what in Spanish is called a "certificado de penales" (criminal certificate, I think is the expression in English). Ironically, the country itself was at that time well-known for its opaque finantial practices.
  - seer 6y ago
    In Bulgaria (EU) they often ask you to provide proof that you are currently not being prosecuted, but apart from that, the only time I’ve been asked to get a criminal record was when applying for a citizenship. And having one is not something that would stop the process, but can be grounds for denial. Programmers can get a free pass for a lot of things here though.
    - Justen 6y ago
      Just curious how you would typically prove you aren't being prosecuted.
      - Const-me 6y ago
        Not from BG, but my guess is you go to a police station where you live, show your ID and ask them to print and sign a paper that says so.
      - filoleg 6y ago
        Just a guess on my end: probably fill out some form at a local police station or court, submit it, and then they you receive the results later that list what you are being prosecuted for or a lack thereof.
- K2h 6y ago
  in US - Most employers don't have super deep pockets to do the background checks, and they pay to do a check in each of your previous addresses listed and decide how far back to go to pull the records. [...If I had a reason to...] To give a higher chance of passing a background at a small employer I may list only my current address. It depends how complex the the HR team is.
- kazinator 6y ago
  Do you find that this industry is staffed with rude people with a bad attitude, who treat everyone being screened like a criminal?
  - __s 6y ago
    No
- microcolonel 6y ago
  I've found a mix with background checks in the U.S; a lot of rental landlords want background checks for the obvious reasons (e.g. housing a convicted rapist with a young woman), employers can go either way, and in my experience it has tended to be reasonable (but I've always worked as a professional, and for people I know through colleagues or acquaintances). A background check is, in my experience, unusal for renters in Canada, but that might just be my bias, having mostly rented from slumlords and acquaintances.
  - ticmasta 6y ago
    The demands for background checks tends to be inversely proportional to the ability of the employee/applicant to do criminal or civil harm. You'll need a clean criminal record to work a random retail job but could have numerous convictions and be a software developer. A crummy rental will require it but fancy executive rental will not. I know some of this has historical/data underpinnings on experience, but fear most of it is based on biased expectations.
    - noobermin 6y ago
      Do you have evidence this is true? Also software developers can cause loads of damage I think.
      - smnrchrds 6y ago
        That's why they say "inversely proportional".
      - 737maxtw 6y ago
        Personal/anecectotal, but totally. In my experience you will more likely see it if you are in a shop that is paying below market. I.e. Devs there make 10k less than other local shops. We wound up with some interesting folks. Got to see what someone going through methadone withdrawals looks like. On the other hand, a few people got some really meaningful second chances at a career there.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  In Texas, if you pull a background check on someone you're required to provide a copy to them which I always felt was a good minimal standard - at least then you know that someone pulled the check and what they found.
  - mullen 6y ago
    California is the same. Also, if someone runs a credit check, you can also request a copy of the report.
    - wolco2 6y ago
      Required to vs can request is a huge difference.
      - Reedx 6y ago
        Maybe their compare function is written in javascript. :)
    - jbperry 6y ago
      As far as background checks in California, I thought they were only required to provide a copy if they decide to rescind their offer?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - vel0city 6y ago
    That's interesting because I've filed many things in Texas related to background checks in Texas and have never received a response. I'll edit this comment with more research about this, as this is personally a very interesting topic. EDIT 1: A quick look shows a guidebook for employers which references this, but the link to the Texas state code talks about in-home employees. https://www.twc.texas.gov/news/efte/references_background_checks.html https://www.twc.texas.gov/news/efte/references_background_ch... I'm still unsure about the law related to other kinds of employees.
- ticmasta 6y ago
  including a YC-backed firm that does this explicitly. I find it sad/humorous that they have copy about "connecting companies with a more diverse set of candidates" while essentially selling a service for streamlined filtering out this pool of people. I get the need in certain circumstances, just get tired of companies trying to have it both ways. https://checkr.com/company https://checkr.com/company
- noobermin 6y ago
  Americans have been completely conditioned into accepting all sorts of trouble while maintaining the idea of freedom in contradiction to that.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    A lot of Americans don't feel like "bad" people are deserving of freedoms. Definitions for "bad" vary from person to person, which is why this kind of thing is so pervasive. Also some people can be forgiven while other's can't. A group of people will scream that rapists should get the death penalty, but then go on to elect an admitted rapist to represent them. In short, we Americans are really good at being hypocritical when it suits us, and we hold other groups to a much higher standard than we hold ourselves.
    - gjs278 6y ago
      trump has never admitted to being a rapist. delete your comment for spreading lies.
  - adventured 6y ago
    Being free to background check someone you're going to work with, work for, or hire is in fact an entirely correct aspect of being free broadly. The US position on that is correct, not contradictory. Restriction on action which does not involve using violence against others is restricting freedom in any proper liberal model of the word. That goes for everything from prostitution to drug use, and it absolutely includes being able to research information about other people you're going to work with. It's hilarious that a place like Norway, which eg thinks publishing open salaries is to be touted, is then magically closed on checking other information about a person. So which is it, open information or not culturally? It's contradictory, arbitrary horseshit is what it is. The position is philosophically identical to claiming that speech must be heavily restricted to be truly free (ie free of "hate" etc.). It's nothing more than intellectual infantilism, part of the mental immaturing and weakening of the West. It's Orwell-think, inverting everything; more restriction on personal action is freedom, more restriction on speech is free speech.
- INTPenis 6y ago
  No kidding. My sister went off to the states almost 20 years ago. Got a job as a teacher, she was trained for it here in Sweden. At the time I worked at a small web hosting company, we had her personal homepage for free since she was my sis. Suddenly she calls me from the states telling me I need to go into her website and edit out some links. Apparently lawyers working for the school where she was applying to work had found her homepage (which she made under an alias and afaik had no references to her person) and didn't like some of the links on it. I'm still blown away by this. The links were about certain sexual fetishes, but again, her website was under a pseudonym. I have no idea how they connected it to her. Could have been something dead simple like her using an e-mail address on the same domain, or using her pseudonym in her e-mail address on hotmail. She wasn't that careful about remaining anonymous, it was just a thing back then that people would have alter-egos online.
plazmatic 6y ago
What's the point of your post other than bragging about your situation? Congrats, you live in Norway where they actually care about reform and reintegrating. The U.S. isn't like that...at all. EVERY JOB HAS A BACKGROUND CHECK. Even most min-wage jobs. Someone like you would hardly have any opportunities here, even if you were a god-tier programmer. God damn. Hacker news top posts are embarrassing 90% of the time with nonsensical posts like Chernobogs.
jrochkind1 6y ago
The U.S. is just so awful.
- ta12352356 6y ago
  My brother did jail time for federal larceny, he makes six figures in the US. In fact over half my family have criminal records, and they're mostly employed, including active drug dealers. It matters to some degree for sure but it's really overblown.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. It's just what we don't need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- lioeters 6y ago
  As an expatriate American, I just hope people recognize that "America the beautiful" does exist, there's a lot to love about the country, its people, land and culture. It's sad how that's overshadowed by their corporations, politicians, and somewhat intentionally broken system - but I choose to believe that good sense will prevail eventually, when enough people care and do something about it - as they've done time and again through history.
liversage 6y ago
It's mostly the same in Denmark. However, there is one situation where background checks are mandatory and that is when you work with children below the age of 15. You have to pass this check not only for a proper job but also if you are doing volunteer work with children (e.g. sports association, scouts etc.) The check is only for crimes against children so you can be convicted for violent crimes and pass this check. Any entries in your criminal record will no longer appear in background checks after some time (depending on the severity of your offense). However, any offense against a child will always appear on this special background check no matter how long ago it was committed. You have to approve that this background check is performed but if you can't produce a clean "child certificate" then you are prohibited from working with children by law.

AlexTWithBeard 6y ago

A part of that may be a legal requirement for the employers to provide a "safe working environment".

koiz 6y ago

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

djsumdog 6y ago
Readers from other countries, what is it like there? I remember when I lived in Australia, my friends told me that many crimes do not show up on background checks after 5 years. Also in Australia, the sex offender registry is confidential, and can only be checked for very specific things (jobs involving children, certain types of housing, etc.) In the US, there are ways of getting records expunged for some crimes, but due to freedom of speech laws/1st amendment, typically background check companies are free to hold on to older records if they were at one time public. I know in the EU, many countries have right to be forgotten laws, but the EFF has historically stood against them due to the fact they've often been used by wealthy individuals to hide their crimes.
- Ichthypresbyter 6y ago
  In the UK, it's changed recently because of a Supreme Court ruling, but AFAIK there are various levels of check depending on the specific job. In most cases a conviction for which the person was sentenced to less than 4 years in prison will eventually become 'spent' and won't show up on background checks apart from for specific jobs (such as working with children). Even for those jobs, some minor convictions are 'filtered' and removed from the record.
- ciberado 6y ago
  I worked in the finantial industry 20 years ago in Andorra, a small independent country between France and Spain. You needed to present what in Spanish is called a "certificado de penales" (criminal certificate, I think is the expression in English). Ironically, the country itself was at that time well-known for its opaque finantial practices.
- seer 6y ago
  In Bulgaria (EU) they often ask you to provide proof that you are currently not being prosecuted, but apart from that, the only time I’ve been asked to get a criminal record was when applying for a citizenship. And having one is not something that would stop the process, but can be grounds for denial. Programmers can get a free pass for a lot of things here though.
  - Justen 6y ago
    Just curious how you would typically prove you aren't being prosecuted.
    - Const-me 6y ago
      Not from BG, but my guess is you go to a police station where you live, show your ID and ask them to print and sign a paper that says so.
    - filoleg 6y ago
      Just a guess on my end: probably fill out some form at a local police station or court, submit it, and then they you receive the results later that list what you are being prosecuted for or a lack thereof.
K2h 6y ago
in US - Most employers don't have super deep pockets to do the background checks, and they pay to do a check in each of your previous addresses listed and decide how far back to go to pull the records. [...If I had a reason to...] To give a higher chance of passing a background at a small employer I may list only my current address. It depends how complex the the HR team is.
kazinator 6y ago
Do you find that this industry is staffed with rude people with a bad attitude, who treat everyone being screened like a criminal?
- __s 6y ago
  No
microcolonel 6y ago
I've found a mix with background checks in the U.S; a lot of rental landlords want background checks for the obvious reasons (e.g. housing a convicted rapist with a young woman), employers can go either way, and in my experience it has tended to be reasonable (but I've always worked as a professional, and for people I know through colleagues or acquaintances). A background check is, in my experience, unusal for renters in Canada, but that might just be my bias, having mostly rented from slumlords and acquaintances.
- ticmasta 6y ago
  The demands for background checks tends to be inversely proportional to the ability of the employee/applicant to do criminal or civil harm. You'll need a clean criminal record to work a random retail job but could have numerous convictions and be a software developer. A crummy rental will require it but fancy executive rental will not. I know some of this has historical/data underpinnings on experience, but fear most of it is based on biased expectations.
  - noobermin 6y ago
    Do you have evidence this is true? Also software developers can cause loads of damage I think.
    - smnrchrds 6y ago
      That's why they say "inversely proportional".
    - 737maxtw 6y ago
      Personal/anecectotal, but totally. In my experience you will more likely see it if you are in a shop that is paying below market. I.e. Devs there make 10k less than other local shops. We wound up with some interesting folks. Got to see what someone going through methadone withdrawals looks like. On the other hand, a few people got some really meaningful second chances at a career there.
vorpalhex 6y ago
In Texas, if you pull a background check on someone you're required to provide a copy to them which I always felt was a good minimal standard - at least then you know that someone pulled the check and what they found.
- mullen 6y ago
  California is the same. Also, if someone runs a credit check, you can also request a copy of the report.
  - wolco2 6y ago
    Required to vs can request is a huge difference.
    - Reedx 6y ago
      Maybe their compare function is written in javascript. :)
  - jbperry 6y ago
    As far as background checks in California, I thought they were only required to provide a copy if they decide to rescind their offer?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- vel0city 6y ago
  That's interesting because I've filed many things in Texas related to background checks in Texas and have never received a response. I'll edit this comment with more research about this, as this is personally a very interesting topic. EDIT 1: A quick look shows a guidebook for employers which references this, but the link to the Texas state code talks about in-home employees. https://www.twc.texas.gov/news/efte/references_background_checks.html https://www.twc.texas.gov/news/efte/references_background_ch... I'm still unsure about the law related to other kinds of employees.
ticmasta 6y ago
including a YC-backed firm that does this explicitly. I find it sad/humorous that they have copy about "connecting companies with a more diverse set of candidates" while essentially selling a service for streamlined filtering out this pool of people. I get the need in certain circumstances, just get tired of companies trying to have it both ways. https://checkr.com/company https://checkr.com/company
noobermin 6y ago
Americans have been completely conditioned into accepting all sorts of trouble while maintaining the idea of freedom in contradiction to that.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  A lot of Americans don't feel like "bad" people are deserving of freedoms. Definitions for "bad" vary from person to person, which is why this kind of thing is so pervasive. Also some people can be forgiven while other's can't. A group of people will scream that rapists should get the death penalty, but then go on to elect an admitted rapist to represent them. In short, we Americans are really good at being hypocritical when it suits us, and we hold other groups to a much higher standard than we hold ourselves.
  - gjs278 6y ago
    trump has never admitted to being a rapist. delete your comment for spreading lies.
- adventured 6y ago
  Being free to background check someone you're going to work with, work for, or hire is in fact an entirely correct aspect of being free broadly. The US position on that is correct, not contradictory. Restriction on action which does not involve using violence against others is restricting freedom in any proper liberal model of the word. That goes for everything from prostitution to drug use, and it absolutely includes being able to research information about other people you're going to work with. It's hilarious that a place like Norway, which eg thinks publishing open salaries is to be touted, is then magically closed on checking other information about a person. So which is it, open information or not culturally? It's contradictory, arbitrary horseshit is what it is. The position is philosophically identical to claiming that speech must be heavily restricted to be truly free (ie free of "hate" etc.). It's nothing more than intellectual infantilism, part of the mental immaturing and weakening of the West. It's Orwell-think, inverting everything; more restriction on personal action is freedom, more restriction on speech is free speech.
INTPenis 6y ago
No kidding. My sister went off to the states almost 20 years ago. Got a job as a teacher, she was trained for it here in Sweden. At the time I worked at a small web hosting company, we had her personal homepage for free since she was my sis. Suddenly she calls me from the states telling me I need to go into her website and edit out some links. Apparently lawyers working for the school where she was applying to work had found her homepage (which she made under an alias and afaik had no references to her person) and didn't like some of the links on it. I'm still blown away by this. The links were about certain sexual fetishes, but again, her website was under a pseudonym. I have no idea how they connected it to her. Could have been something dead simple like her using an e-mail address on the same domain, or using her pseudonym in her e-mail address on hotmail. She wasn't that careful about remaining anonymous, it was just a thing back then that people would have alter-egos online.

plazmatic 6y ago

What's the point of your post other than bragging about your situation? Congrats, you live in Norway where they actually care about reform and reintegrating. The U.S. isn't like that...at all. EVERY JOB HAS A BACKGROUND CHECK. Even most min-wage jobs. Someone like you would hardly have any opportunities here, even if you were a god-tier programmer. God damn. Hacker news top posts are embarrassing 90% of the time with nonsensical posts like Chernobogs.

jrochkind1 6y ago

The U.S. is just so awful.

ta12352356 6y ago
My brother did jail time for federal larceny, he makes six figures in the US. In fact over half my family have criminal records, and they're mostly employed, including active drug dealers. It matters to some degree for sure but it's really overblown.
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. It's just what we don't need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
lioeters 6y ago
As an expatriate American, I just hope people recognize that "America the beautiful" does exist, there's a lot to love about the country, its people, land and culture. It's sad how that's overshadowed by their corporations, politicians, and somewhat intentionally broken system - but I choose to believe that good sense will prevail eventually, when enough people care and do something about it - as they've done time and again through history.

liversage 6y ago

It's mostly the same in Denmark. However, there is one situation where background checks are mandatory and that is when you work with children below the age of 15. You have to pass this check not only for a proper job but also if you are doing volunteer work with children (e.g. sports association, scouts etc.) The check is only for crimes against children so you can be convicted for violent crimes and pass this check. Any entries in your criminal record will no longer appear in background checks after some time (depending on the severity of your offense). However, any offense against a child will always appear on this special background check no matter how long ago it was committed. You have to approve that this background check is performed but if you can't produce a clean "child certificate" then you are prohibited from working with children by law.