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I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.
by staticassertion 6y ago
I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- secondcoming 6y ago> depending on the crime, obviously Well, this is the big part that's missing from the story. 13 years seems like it was a big deal. Is it even legal to ask someone who was in prison what their crime was during an interview?
- richardwhiuk 6y agoDefinitely in the UK. You can ask for full criminal records.
- VBprogrammer 6y agoCriminal convictions in the UK at least can be considered spent, after that point it doesn't need to be declared.
- michaelt 6y agoYou can ask. But UK convictions become 'spent' after a certain amount of time (Depending on the length of the prison sentence served, with 4+ year sentences never becoming spent) after which they leave the person's basic criminal record, and there's no obligation to tell a prospective employer about them. Only a few jobs (such as teaching) are allowed info on spent convictions.
- richardwhiuk 6y agoThe original article was a 13 year conviction, so would have shown up.
- chrisco255 6y agoThe laws on this vary dramatically by state and sometimes even by city. For some they can't ask or run a background check until after an offer is made. For some jurisdictions they can't discriminate on that basis unless it's highly relevant to the job (i.e. convicted sex offender can't work with children). For some jurisdictions it's totally legal to run the background check upfront and to discriminate at will.
- dx87 6y agoThe tweet says that it was a "serious, violent crime", and that they got out early on parole, so the 13 years wasn't even the full sentence. With that amount of jail time, it looks like she murdered someone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder_in_the_United_States#California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- edbob 6y ago13 years served is pretty short for murder in most states. It's more likely aggravated assault, robbery, or less likely something like negligent homicide (e.g., killing someone in a car wreck while intoxicated). Assaults and robberies are far more common.
- nendroid 6y agoYou say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme. Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.
- VBprogrammer 6y agoIsn't a huge amount of prison time in the US handed out for selling banned substances to other consenting adults?
- nickff 6y agoDrug convictions make up a large portion of federal inmates, but federal inmates are a minority of the prison population.
- minikites 6y agoYep. Drug laws (and the police/legal system in general) also disproportionately targets people of color.
- iguy 6y agoAbout 10-20% of prisoners are in for nothing more serious than drugs, and if you try to exclude trafficking, then it's closer to the 10% end. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html
- CobrastanJorji 6y agoIn total, about a half million people are in jail or prison for having, using, or selling drugs. Drug crimes account for about half of Federal prisoners. But percentage-wise, when you add up federal, state, and local prisons and jails, drugs are not as large a percentage as you'd think. Another half million people in prisons or jails haven't been convicted of any crime at all, either because they can't afford bail or because they're just being processed today. If you had to guess what someone went to jail for, and you only knew they were in a State penitentiary, violent crime would be your best guess. Here's a bit pie chart: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html
- eplanit 6y agoSo, Thought Crime weighs heavier than statutory crimes? Who decides the guilt or innocence of the thoughts?
- staticassertion 6y agoThe one hiring gets to decide who works there.
- sixo 6y agoyou're trying to be clever, but statutory crimes are often either ridiculous (drug offenses) or can be put behind you and forgiven (if they were a product of circumstances or culture at the time.) whereas what you're calling "thought crime" is more analogous to saying "i intend to commit statutory crimes in the future".
- AlexTWithBeard 6y agoA thought crime is analogous to saying "I think that imprisoning people for drugs is unfair".
- Nuzzerino 6y agoWhat percentage of the population do you estimate is made up of these racists?
- staticassertion 6y agoI don't know? I don't understand what you're getting at.
- Nuzzerino 6y agoMany these days have got on a bandwagon of calling people out as racists if they don't fall in line with the Democrat party platform or support the censorship agenda of big tech. As that diminishes the real problem of racism would you be willing to commit to not hiring anyone contributing to that problem as well? (Obviously this is rhetorical)
- staticassertion 6y agoIf it's rhetorical why are you asking me? What do you want from this exchange? I have no interest in discussing who is or isn't racist, I'm saying that an already defined as racist tweet would be something worth considering in a hiring process.
- AlexTWithBeard 6y agoThere's a problem though: - The standard of proof in criminal law is very high. There are very specific definitions of most criminal acts and these must be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" - The definition of "racist tweet" on the other hand is as fuzzy as it can be. Usually it drills down to "someone whom I don't like said something that I have interpreted in the way I don't like" If we think that racist tweets should bear harsh consequences, we need a bit better criteria of what "racist" actually means.
- staticassertion 6y agoAs with all things there is a judgment to be made, and as the one doing the hiring it is yours to make responsibly.
- minitoar 6y agoWhat do you think a good definition of “racist tweet” would be?
- deelowe 6y agoI doubt there is one.
- minitoar 6y agoDoes that mean the concept has no value, or that racist tweets do not exist (since they cannot be easily defined)?
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y agoHe means that there is no racist comment that can be posted on Twitter that he feels should result in affecting one's employment.
- deelowe 6y agoNo. I mean, I doubt we as a society could come up with a definition that's sufficiently specific and durable enough to apply this level of scrutiny. We can't even agree on the proper term for certain races.
- pkaye 6y agoSo you are saying it should be the employers choice whether to hire the racist or criminal?
- hnracer 6y agoOP would've been talking about falsely maligned people who were raked over the coals by a woke mob for a relatively innocuous and most likely factually accurate statement. Not actual racists. For example: the letter against Steven Pinker for using vernacular such as "urban crime" (he's then called racist), or the attacks against JK Rowling for taking a politically incorrect stance on trans women in female sports (she's then called transphobic). The list goes on.