4 ms·

It's a mess, but it still seems much better than the situation before to me. It's true, you currently need to be careful when buying cables, but if you are, you

by bla3 6y ago

It's a mess, but it still seems much better than the situation before to me. It's true, you currently need to be careful when buying cables, but if you are, you can charge all your devices with the same plug. And usb-c video means your monitor can act as usb hub for keyboard and mouse over the video cable, so you only need to replug a single cable to move video and mouse and keyboard between computers. I use this a lot with my laptops, I find it super convenient. It's not like the previous situation was easier to navigate for consumers. Sure, I'd be nice if usb-c was an even bigger improvement, but it doesn't deserve to be called "total mess".

crote 6y ago
Yeah, but try explaining to your non-technical friend with two monitors why connecting their laptop to both via USB C works, but their phone only gives video output on one. There are at least 5 ways to transfer video over USB C: Straight USB, HDMI alternate mode, DisplayPort alternate mode, MHL alternate mode, and Thunderbolt. Then it's also possible for an alternate mode to only use a subset of the available lanes, the lane count doesn't match the lanes available in the "real" connector, and the protocols have multiple versions. Labeling all of that as "USB C" is a massive mistake.
- izacus 6y ago
  Would the situation be better when you'd have to explain why does his monitor have 3 different connection ports but not the 5th one he needs? Or that he's lacking the right converter cables for all different 5 possible types?
  - oftenwrong 6y ago
    Yes, that would be easier to understand. That is as easy to understand as a child's "shape sorter" toy: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71F1sWVVXAL._AC_SL1500_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71F1sWVVXAL... If the monitor has a Triangle port, and the computer has a Square port, you need a Triangle-to-Square adapter. Simple.
  - crote 6y ago
    "If it fits, it works" is pretty easy to explain. An adapter cable is also easy to explain: it fits, so it will work. With USB C, there are scenarios where you can have an adapter cable and it'll still not work.
    - jayd16 6y ago
      >"If it fits, it works" is pretty easy to explain. It also isn't correct. It wasn't true as far as VGA and DVI adapters were concerned. Nor is it true for connecting two HDMI-In ports, for example.
      - crote 6y ago
        If I recall correctly, DVI had three main variants: -I, -A, and -D. A DVI-to-VGA adapter would have a DVI-A plug. The video card would have either DVI-I or DVI-D. If the card had DVI-D, it only offered digital and the DVI-A plug would not physically fit. If the card had DVI-I, it would offer both analog and digital and both DVI-A and DVI-D would fit. So, if it fits it works! And yeah, the HDMI thing is of course true, I'll give you that. :-)
        jayd16 6y ago
        The pin helped sometimes but there were a few arrangements that fit but did not work. Female DVI to Female VGA adapters existed for going from VGA to DVI-A but this meant you could fit a pinless DVI-D cable and a VGA cable together this way.
    - izacus 6y ago
      Easy to explain but extremely inconvenient for users because it doesn't gracefully degrade like USB-C can in a large amount of cases.
- rubatuga 6y ago
  You are technically correct, but in reality, 99% of video goes over USB-C as displayport. Even USB-C to hdmi dongles have a conversion chipset in it.
  - crote 6y ago
    Really? I wasn't aware about the HDMI dongle thing! But yeah, you're right of course - I'm being pedantic. Yet it still worries me that those are all officially supported as part of the USB C standards. It's confusing even when everyone is following the standards, and it gets even worse when vendors start ignoring them. It's definitely not making it any easier.
falcolas 6y ago
> but if you are, you can charge all your devices with the same plug I have expressly found this to not be true. I have a bluetooth headset that has a USB-C plug, but it only charges from a USB-A to USB-C cord. It also won't connect to a computer using a straight USB-C cord, but it will with a USB-C to USB-A adapter and a USB-A to USB-C cord. The Switch won't always charge from every adapter (and some folks have reported damage from trying to use a generic adapter). I tried to use an Apple USB-C charger with a Lenovo chromebook, and the chromebook would flash as if you were plugging and unplugging the computer every second. I have a USB-C dock (Anker brand) for my work computer, and it works (mostly) but the power is so noisy that I have to use a separate port with a USB-C to USB-A for my USB headset. So, yeah, USB-C is a real shitshow at my house.
oftenwrong 6y ago
For "normal" people like my mother, it is worse. She ended up in a situation recently where something worked with one cable, but not with a different cable. She thought the cable must be broken. I explained the issue to her, and she understands now, but she still has a hard time remembering which cables and adapters to use for the various purposes. She can't just keep them in a drawer all together. She also has trouble telling USB C from USB micro and mini A since they are all somewhat similar in appearance. She still has many non-C USB devices. It was easy for her to set up her computer back when we had color-coded and large, distinctively-shaped ports. For example: PS/2 for keyboard and mouse (violet and green), VGA for monitor (blue), 3.5mm audio for speakers and microphone (green and pink), C13/14 for power. Obviously, usability is way better these days; she can use her laptop without plugging in anything, and mostly things Just Work. However, I think these basic child's-toy-like usability cues were valuable, and maybe we need something similar to keep USB C easily-understandable. One day I hope that it will all be sorted out. Every USB cable and adapter will have full support. You can plug any USB C into any USB C and it will work like magic.
- sergeykish 6y ago
  Buy some colored tape or colored cable protectors.
  - oftenwrong 6y ago
    Misses the point, and wouldn't be foolproof. You might be able to send video over a certain cable to a certain monitor when connected directly, but not when connected through a hub.

by bla3 6y ago

crote 6y ago

Yeah, but try explaining to your non-technical friend with two monitors why connecting their laptop to both via USB C works, but their phone only gives video output on one. There are at least 5 ways to transfer video over USB C: Straight USB, HDMI alternate mode, DisplayPort alternate mode, MHL alternate mode, and Thunderbolt. Then it's also possible for an alternate mode to only use a subset of the available lanes, the lane count doesn't match the lanes available in the "real" connector, and the protocols have multiple versions. Labeling all of that as "USB C" is a massive mistake.

izacus 6y ago
Would the situation be better when you'd have to explain why does his monitor have 3 different connection ports but not the 5th one he needs? Or that he's lacking the right converter cables for all different 5 possible types?
- oftenwrong 6y ago
  Yes, that would be easier to understand. That is as easy to understand as a child's "shape sorter" toy: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71F1sWVVXAL._AC_SL1500_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71F1sWVVXAL... If the monitor has a Triangle port, and the computer has a Square port, you need a Triangle-to-Square adapter. Simple.
- crote 6y ago
  "If it fits, it works" is pretty easy to explain. An adapter cable is also easy to explain: it fits, so it will work. With USB C, there are scenarios where you can have an adapter cable and it'll still not work.
  - jayd16 6y ago
    >"If it fits, it works" is pretty easy to explain. It also isn't correct. It wasn't true as far as VGA and DVI adapters were concerned. Nor is it true for connecting two HDMI-In ports, for example.
    - crote 6y ago
      If I recall correctly, DVI had three main variants: -I, -A, and -D. A DVI-to-VGA adapter would have a DVI-A plug. The video card would have either DVI-I or DVI-D. If the card had DVI-D, it only offered digital and the DVI-A plug would not physically fit. If the card had DVI-I, it would offer both analog and digital and both DVI-A and DVI-D would fit. So, if it fits it works! And yeah, the HDMI thing is of course true, I'll give you that. :-)
      - jayd16 6y ago
        The pin helped sometimes but there were a few arrangements that fit but did not work. Female DVI to Female VGA adapters existed for going from VGA to DVI-A but this meant you could fit a pinless DVI-D cable and a VGA cable together this way.
  - izacus 6y ago
    Easy to explain but extremely inconvenient for users because it doesn't gracefully degrade like USB-C can in a large amount of cases.
rubatuga 6y ago
You are technically correct, but in reality, 99% of video goes over USB-C as displayport. Even USB-C to hdmi dongles have a conversion chipset in it.
- crote 6y ago
  Really? I wasn't aware about the HDMI dongle thing! But yeah, you're right of course - I'm being pedantic. Yet it still worries me that those are all officially supported as part of the USB C standards. It's confusing even when everyone is following the standards, and it gets even worse when vendors start ignoring them. It's definitely not making it any easier.

falcolas 6y ago

> but if you are, you can charge all your devices with the same plug I have expressly found this to not be true. I have a bluetooth headset that has a USB-C plug, but it only charges from a USB-A to USB-C cord. It also won't connect to a computer using a straight USB-C cord, but it will with a USB-C to USB-A adapter and a USB-A to USB-C cord. The Switch won't always charge from every adapter (and some folks have reported damage from trying to use a generic adapter). I tried to use an Apple USB-C charger with a Lenovo chromebook, and the chromebook would flash as if you were plugging and unplugging the computer every second. I have a USB-C dock (Anker brand) for my work computer, and it works (mostly) but the power is so noisy that I have to use a separate port with a USB-C to USB-A for my USB headset. So, yeah, USB-C is a real shitshow at my house.

oftenwrong 6y ago

For "normal" people like my mother, it is worse. She ended up in a situation recently where something worked with one cable, but not with a different cable. She thought the cable must be broken. I explained the issue to her, and she understands now, but she still has a hard time remembering which cables and adapters to use for the various purposes. She can't just keep them in a drawer all together. She also has trouble telling USB C from USB micro and mini A since they are all somewhat similar in appearance. She still has many non-C USB devices. It was easy for her to set up her computer back when we had color-coded and large, distinctively-shaped ports. For example: PS/2 for keyboard and mouse (violet and green), VGA for monitor (blue), 3.5mm audio for speakers and microphone (green and pink), C13/14 for power. Obviously, usability is way better these days; she can use her laptop without plugging in anything, and mostly things Just Work. However, I think these basic child's-toy-like usability cues were valuable, and maybe we need something similar to keep USB C easily-understandable. One day I hope that it will all be sorted out. Every USB cable and adapter will have full support. You can plug any USB C into any USB C and it will work like magic.

sergeykish 6y ago
Buy some colored tape or colored cable protectors.
- oftenwrong 6y ago
  Misses the point, and wouldn't be foolproof. You might be able to send video over a certain cable to a certain monitor when connected directly, but not when connected through a hub.