4 ms·

If car seats existed but weren’t required, would you have chosen not to bring them? Or, phrased differently, was it just the legal requirement that caused you t

If car seats existed but weren’t required, would you have chosen not to bring them? Or, phrased differently, was it just the legal requirement that caused you to bring them?

himlion 6y ago
When I don't plan to do more than 50 miles of driving on one side, I would definitely not bring them if there wasn't a legal requirement.
- igor47 6y ago
  this makes a lot of sense. sure, "anything could happen", even in 50 miles, but the risk of an accident when driving a short distance is much less than the risk of an accident when driving longer distances. this is simular to how the risk of contracting covid varies across different exposure scenarios. i'm hoping the pandemic will get us more used to thinking of risk on a continuum -- which may result in more sane policies around risk management.
  - goodcanadian 6y ago
    On the other hand, the risk of a collision on city streets is much higher than on a highway.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    I fear, wrt Covid19, it's the reverse - so many people saying masks are [totally] ineffective because breath can get around the sides. It seems like the brainwashing that's been going on to convince people that they can't like policies, they have to be either political party A or party B has forced some notion of absolute bivalency in all matters -- everything is treated by a large proportion of the population as either 100% right or 100% wrong, subtlety seems to be entirely anathema. "Can a viral spore get out of a mask? 'Yes', so noone should wear masks, they're an evil plot!" seems to be such a prevalent line of 'thinking'.
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      on the flip side, after six or seven months of quarantine, even the "safety at all costs!" crowd is figuring out how work limited social time into their lives.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Most of your accidents will occur while you’re close to home, because that’s where you likely will do most of your driving. It doesn’t really matter whether you get into a 30 mph collision on the boulevard next to your house or one three counties over…
  - projektfu 6y ago
    I think the point was about the risk per baby-mile. If you’re going to fly and rent a car at the other side, you should bring the car seats. If you’re going to a metropolis with transit and walkability, maybe not. If an airport is a long distance from home, maybe so.
  - theandrewbailey 6y ago
    Decades ago, when I started hearing bad statistics that emphasized 'within 50 miles of home', I always thought that it was saying multi-hour roadtrips were automatically safer.
etothepii 6y ago
Didn't Levitt and Dubner establish that a standard seatbelt would be safe enough to class as a car seat for children over 2 if they weren't explicitly banned by law.
- goodcanadian 6y ago
  IIRC, what they claimed is that there was no statistically significant evidence that car seats for children over two (i.e. not infants) saved lives. I recall when I was young (before car seat laws), the car had shorter seat belts in the back. Almost as though they expected children to sit there . . .
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    When you were young back seats has lap belts but not shoulder straps.
    - goodcanadian 6y ago
      That is true of the first car I remember, but the second had (child-sized) shoulder belts.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Would you mind linking that if you have it around somewhere? It seems quite doubtful that a seatbelt would work on someone who isn’t even tall enough for the sash to go over their torso…
  - JackFr 6y ago
    Someone let the airlines know.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      But those are lap belts, and also planes tend to have different issues than cars do.
kalleboo 6y ago
It's pretty telling that in many countries (e.g. the EU), child seat laws are relaxed in taxis. It's an acknowledgement that there can be a tradeoff between safety and convenience. If it's OK to hold your child in the backseat of a taxi to the airport, why shouldn't it be OK to hold your child in the backseat of your friends' car on the way to the airport? My guess would be that it's a question of numbers. You want 99% of kids to be in child seats, and can allow a few exceptions (since e.g. nobody does a commute to daycare in a taxi). But if you allowed private drivers to avoid car seats in limited circumstances, people would abuse that privilege and never use a car seat, turning that number down to 70% or lower
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  In theory, a taxi driver is a trained professional (like an airplane pilot) whose safety record, attentiveness etc is much higher than the average driver. In practice, probably not so much. But when it comes to driving it doesn't really matter much because half the accidents involving two cars are someone else's fault.
  - Robin_Message 6y ago
    I'm not sure if fault is that binary. Sometimes, you're right, the other driver is at fault and there is nothing you could do. But often, you can drive defensively in a way that protects you from even serious mistakes by others.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      I have personally not been in far more accidents than I've been in just because one of the two parties was paying attention and took the correct evasive action. Sometimes that was me, sometimes it was someone else. This is only the cases I've noticed, there were probably times where I did something stupid and didn't realize it, and the other person took evasive action anyway, or even cases where I took the evasive action without noting the other person did something stupid. We need to look out for each other. Nobody is perfect, but the better each individual does the better the whole is.
freetime2 6y ago
If not for the legal requirement I probably would choose not to bring them. In my opinion going for a few days without a car seat is an acceptable level of risk.
- el_benhameen 6y ago
  That’s fair. I don’t enjoy doing the double car seat lug, but I would continue bringing them even if not legally required. My kids are little, though, so that calculus would probably change if they were in booster seat territory. I asked out of genuine curiosity, so I hope I didn’t seem standoffish.

If car seats existed but weren’t required, would you have chosen not to bring them? Or, phrased differently, was it just the legal requirement that caused you to bring them?

himlion 6y ago

When I don't plan to do more than 50 miles of driving on one side, I would definitely not bring them if there wasn't a legal requirement.

igor47 6y ago
this makes a lot of sense. sure, "anything could happen", even in 50 miles, but the risk of an accident when driving a short distance is much less than the risk of an accident when driving longer distances. this is simular to how the risk of contracting covid varies across different exposure scenarios. i'm hoping the pandemic will get us more used to thinking of risk on a continuum -- which may result in more sane policies around risk management.
- goodcanadian 6y ago
  On the other hand, the risk of a collision on city streets is much higher than on a highway.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  I fear, wrt Covid19, it's the reverse - so many people saying masks are [totally] ineffective because breath can get around the sides. It seems like the brainwashing that's been going on to convince people that they can't like policies, they have to be either political party A or party B has forced some notion of absolute bivalency in all matters -- everything is treated by a large proportion of the population as either 100% right or 100% wrong, subtlety seems to be entirely anathema. "Can a viral spore get out of a mask? 'Yes', so noone should wear masks, they're an evil plot!" seems to be such a prevalent line of 'thinking'.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    on the flip side, after six or seven months of quarantine, even the "safety at all costs!" crowd is figuring out how work limited social time into their lives.
saagarjha 6y ago
Most of your accidents will occur while you’re close to home, because that’s where you likely will do most of your driving. It doesn’t really matter whether you get into a 30 mph collision on the boulevard next to your house or one three counties over…
- projektfu 6y ago
  I think the point was about the risk per baby-mile. If you’re going to fly and rent a car at the other side, you should bring the car seats. If you’re going to a metropolis with transit and walkability, maybe not. If an airport is a long distance from home, maybe so.
- theandrewbailey 6y ago
  Decades ago, when I started hearing bad statistics that emphasized 'within 50 miles of home', I always thought that it was saying multi-hour roadtrips were automatically safer.

etothepii 6y ago

Didn't Levitt and Dubner establish that a standard seatbelt would be safe enough to class as a car seat for children over 2 if they weren't explicitly banned by law.

goodcanadian 6y ago
IIRC, what they claimed is that there was no statistically significant evidence that car seats for children over two (i.e. not infants) saved lives. I recall when I was young (before car seat laws), the car had shorter seat belts in the back. Almost as though they expected children to sit there . . .
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  When you were young back seats has lap belts but not shoulder straps.
  - goodcanadian 6y ago
    That is true of the first car I remember, but the second had (child-sized) shoulder belts.
saagarjha 6y ago
Would you mind linking that if you have it around somewhere? It seems quite doubtful that a seatbelt would work on someone who isn’t even tall enough for the sash to go over their torso…
- JackFr 6y ago
  Someone let the airlines know.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    But those are lap belts, and also planes tend to have different issues than cars do.

kalleboo 6y ago

It's pretty telling that in many countries (e.g. the EU), child seat laws are relaxed in taxis. It's an acknowledgement that there can be a tradeoff between safety and convenience. If it's OK to hold your child in the backseat of a taxi to the airport, why shouldn't it be OK to hold your child in the backseat of your friends' car on the way to the airport? My guess would be that it's a question of numbers. You want 99% of kids to be in child seats, and can allow a few exceptions (since e.g. nobody does a commute to daycare in a taxi). But if you allowed private drivers to avoid car seats in limited circumstances, people would abuse that privilege and never use a car seat, turning that number down to 70% or lower

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
In theory, a taxi driver is a trained professional (like an airplane pilot) whose safety record, attentiveness etc is much higher than the average driver. In practice, probably not so much. But when it comes to driving it doesn't really matter much because half the accidents involving two cars are someone else's fault.
- Robin_Message 6y ago
  I'm not sure if fault is that binary. Sometimes, you're right, the other driver is at fault and there is nothing you could do. But often, you can drive defensively in a way that protects you from even serious mistakes by others.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    I have personally not been in far more accidents than I've been in just because one of the two parties was paying attention and took the correct evasive action. Sometimes that was me, sometimes it was someone else. This is only the cases I've noticed, there were probably times where I did something stupid and didn't realize it, and the other person took evasive action anyway, or even cases where I took the evasive action without noting the other person did something stupid. We need to look out for each other. Nobody is perfect, but the better each individual does the better the whole is.

freetime2 6y ago

If not for the legal requirement I probably would choose not to bring them. In my opinion going for a few days without a car seat is an acceptable level of risk.

el_benhameen 6y ago
That’s fair. I don’t enjoy doing the double car seat lug, but I would continue bringing them even if not legally required. My kids are little, though, so that calculus would probably change if they were in booster seat territory. I asked out of genuine curiosity, so I hope I didn’t seem standoffish.