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Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

264 points by tmaly 6y ago

There is a lot of material out there for teens and older kids. I am curious what material or activities you use for kids ages 6-8 for helping them to learn to think on their own.

tboyd47 6y ago
Show them by example how to be skeptical without accusing people of lying, and mention often the many reasons why people say things that might not be completely true. Also, you need to make sure you yourself don't lie to them. A lot of parents still teach their kids to believe in Santa Claus. I know this is one of those cultural sacred cows, but I strongly think this should not be done. Kids need to be able to trust their parents and caregivers to a higher degree than the rest of society. I've done some formal "activities" with them in homeschooling, like sorting "real" vs. "not real," but even I don't think those are as good as leading by example.
- circlefavshape 6y ago
  I don't agree about Santa Claus fwiw. This is culture-specific, but here (Ireland) he's an integral part of Christmas, and of the excitement about Christmas that kids experience. Santa Claus is the only lie I've ever consciously told my kids. By doing so I've given them access to a great deal of joy and fun, both individual and communal. Should I have deprived them of that because I wanted be absolutely consistent, or to feel virtuous?
  - InvaderFizz 6y ago
    This will end up being a personal decision that each parent makes. Much like the previous commenter, my wife and I made a conscious decision to separate myth from fact. Everything fictional is in "stories." I never want to be in the position where I consciously lie to my son, so Santa Claus is very clearly a story. That said, we can do all sorts of fun imaginative things with story characters because we know they are not real. This allows us to have the magic of Santa, without eventually having a large breach of trust.
    - Izkata 6y ago
      > This will end up being a personal decision that each parent makes. And because of that I want to add how my parents did it, which was kind of along the lines of "teaching children to think": They kept up the myth until we started questioning it, turning it into a sort of rite of passage. I figured it out in 2nd grade, age 7 or 8, right at the point OP is asking about.
    - circlefavshape 6y ago
      You and your son can do fun imaginative things, but I suspect he will not be able to fully share in the fantasy world that other kids who believe in Santa inhabit. But that's fine, it's your decision - parenthood (like everything) is all about tradeoffs like this
    - riffraff 6y ago
      > I never want to be in the position where I consciously lie to my son, so Santa Claus is very clearly a story. I find this interesting: do you believe there is something intrinsically bad in the lies? Normally, I would think they lead to lack of trust, but I don't seem to remember children losing trust in their parents when they discovered _they_ are really Santa Claus. I mean, it seems to me that not all un-truths are created equal.
      - big_curses 6y ago
        I'm not the person you asked, but I could see there being harm in lying to children about how reality works. When children are first growing up, they have no clue about the nature of reality, of what is and is not possible, but their brains are constantly gobbling up data on what the world is like. From this, one forms concepts of how things relate to each other. Ideally as they do this, there are no contradictions between their concepts, or they're worked out over time, but in lying to a child and feeding them this false information, you are introducing contradictions into their concepts and distorting their view of reality. And one's view of reality directly relates to their ability to interact with it in a self-beneficial way. Now I can't say that this will actually have much of an effect, like I said, we can naturally work out these contradictions over time, but I think this is why one should not lie to children in general. Like you say, not all untruths are created equal. It could be quite easy for them to fix their concepts once they realize it is a lie, but perhaps it could have some lingering effects. I can't say. I'm not a psychologist and each individual, and their mind, is different.
  - andi999 6y ago
    No easter bunny for your kids?
    - circlefavshape 6y ago
      We don't really have easter bunny in Ireland
      - andi999 6y ago
        Ahh. Didnt know. So what about st patrick driving out the snakes?
        circlefavshape 6y ago
        haha - we have st. patrick's day obvs, with various traditions associated with it, but the snake myth is not something anyone really subscribes to or cares about
- natmaka 6y ago
  Santa Claus may be 'intellectually' useful starting from the instant the kid learns that is is a myth, because this may teach him that seeing everybody apparently believe in something doesn't preclude that, in fact, nearly nobody does. This may be of paramount importance when it comes to forming a critical mind. Moreover any human group is built upon myths.
  - tboyd47 6y ago
    Critical thinking is a lot harder than just saying, "Don't believe other people." You have to teach that people may be trustworthy in one area, but not in another. You have to teach when you can take a statement on face value. You have to teach how to be skeptical of your own judgments and defer to others sometimes. You may also teach them how to spot liars. These things require time to understand and I don't see that happening if you sabotage the process by openly betraying them in a huge way early on.
    - natmaka 6y ago
      > Critical thinking is a lot harder than just saying, "Don't believe other people." Indeed, and I didn't write that the Santa Claus myth is sufficient on this behalf, but that it may help. Are you rejecting anything but a perfect (simple and exhaustive) way to teach critical thinking? I never crossed one, and doubt it exists for any complex philosophical asset. Refusing any other way exposes to the 'perfect solution fallacy'. > if you sabotage the process by openly betraying them in a huge way early on. I doubt kids learning that Santa Claus is a myth feel betrayed, and never perceived it (I was born in 1967 and have a daughter). The SC myth is well-built because when discovering its nature a kid understands that the lie is innocuous and even pleasant (gifts, gatherings...), and therefore not really a 'betraying'. He can then proceed to other conclusions about intents, the way he forms his own beliefs... I'm not fond of the SC myth nor do I practice it, however I try to be objective (this is part of critical thinking!).
- EvanAnderson 6y ago
  My wife and I agreed to be rigorously honest with our daughter. When "Santa" came up I was initially very uncomfortable with the lie. After discussing it with my wife we opted to go on with the lie under the conditions that it not be used for any kind of negative reinforcement-- none of the "Santa is watching you..." kind of stuff-- and that the "reveal" needed to be handled appropriately. When she does deduce the lie the plan is to explain to her as such: - It's a tradition that is passed down to bring joy to children. It allows parents to give gifts in a way that carries no expectation of thanks or praise. - She is now in on the "secret". It's her responsibility to guard the secret the same way her parents did before her. She knows what joy it brought to her and she shouldn't spoil that joy for others. - We do not lie to her, as a rule. We took this very seriously and thought hard about it. We decided the joy it would bring to her, and to the people she might one day be "Santa" for, was worth betraying her trust in this case. I still don't feel great about it, but I can live w/ myself. The little girl is 7 right now. She has said stuff like "I think Santa is really you and Mom". She also questions that conclusion, though, because because she says, effectively, that she doesn't have evidence for it. (I need talk about about Occam's razor and the idea that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... >smile<)
  - ravi-delia 6y ago
    It's funny, my parents did exactly the same thing and while I enjoyed playing along I can't recall ever believing a word of it. I'm not sure how my gut so quickly got to the truth. Maybe people deep down follow Occam's razor, though more likely I just got it by osmosis. To tell you the truth, I think back to that when I question my gut to this day. I'm thankful my parents never lied to me outside of it, but the wonderful thing about Santa is that everyone is in on the conspiracy, so if you can see past it you'll only ever be more confident in the truth when you find it, without taking it for granted. If it means anything from a random person on hacker news, I benefited from being told that Santa existed, and from the sound of it your daughter will too.
  - kirillzubovsky 6y ago
    LOL. My mom was visiting us when my 5 year old asked about Santa. I explained with a stone cold face that Santa isn't real, presents come from mom and dad, and instead of waiting for Xmas we just get her things when she needs them, and that's why she didn't get anything for Xmas while her friends did. My mom was petrified, but my daughter didn't seem to care. Kids are really okay with adult stuff, there is more than one way to sparkle delight in their life, and it doesn't have to be Santa (imo).
- rlonn 6y ago
  I beg to differ about the lying. Do lie about unimportant things, let them try and figure out the lie, then confess (regardless of whether they figured it out or not). It becomes like a game, and if you do it right, in a lighthearted way, they will also trust you when it counts.
  - tboyd47 6y ago
    Wouldn't that also teach them to lie to you about things they consider "unimportant"?
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  We told our kids that Santa was a pretend game that adults play. But, um, I don't think we took the same tack with the Tooth Fairy. We told our kids that the Tooth Fairy recycled teeth - when they fell out of kids' mouths, the Tooth Fairy took them and gave them to babies that were just getting their teeth. So I guess I'm a hypocrite :-(
rglover 6y ago
Check out the book The Absorbent Mind by Maria Montessori.
- pier25 6y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like a great book and is on sale now for Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/Absorbent-Mind-Unabridged-Start-Publishing-ebook/dp/B00CBDC1U6/ https://www.amazon.com/Absorbent-Mind-Unabridged-Start-Publi...
- tmaly 6y ago
  thank you for the recommendation, I am going to order a copy.
- NAR8789 6y ago
  Seconded! Montessori in general is worth a look. Jives with a lot of the other "provide an environment conducive to exploration" comments here, but also gets down to very concrete practices, e.g. foster independence by providing a predictable and child-sized environment so that children can e.g. make their own breakfast. This stands in contrast to modern practices of shuttling children from activity to activity, arranging their lives for them and depriving them of control. Independence in daily activities dovetails into independence in intellectual educations. Children tend to develop those activities over which they have the most hands-on control and most freedom for self-exploration.
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gallamine 6y ago
A simple procedure that's worked ok so far has been to give answers then follow up with, "do you know why?" and get them to try and give a reason for my decision or judgement. I've noticed that eventually they're able to determine the reason for our parenting decisions. We also tend to give our children lots of decisions to make early on so that they're used to determining the costs and benefits of decisions, especially when it's cheap to make mistakes.
omarhaneef 6y ago
Also if someone has a recommendation on how to teach adults to think, that would be useful too. Ages 21-90. (Jokes aside, is it that different? Isn't the larger question: what does it mean to "think", and what does it mean to "teach" someone to do it?)
- tmaly 6y ago
  OP here, The Thinking Toolbox by Bluedorn is pretty good. The target age starts at 12-13. For me, this is still too advanced for the age range 6-8 I am looking for. The biggest challenge is taking these abstract ideas and making them accessible and interesting to a child. I taught a few lessons in Scratch programming last year to grades 1-5. Before I conceptualized the lessons, I had listened to the audio book Made to Stick. I found this was helpful in thinking about how I should communicate these abstract ideas about programming to younger kids.
  - omarhaneef 6y ago
    I didn’t understand that you specifically meant how to think about programming. That is a more specific — and therefore more answerable — question. I thought you meant thinking in general from the post.
    - tmaly 6y ago
      I offered Scratch as a specific example, but I think the ideas can be applied in the general.
MichaelAO 6y ago
Core knowledge. Create an environment that encourages a love of reading as soon as possible and help them develop core knowledge about the world around them. This includes both language and facts/concepts about everything from ancient history to the solar system. Domain-specific background knowledge is incredibly important. It turns out (for the most part) there are no general purpose cognitive skills... it's all domain specific. A student that knows about baseball will comprehend an article about baseball much better than one that doesn't have the core knowledge of what a run, base, double, home run, etc. means. Decoding strategies be damned. Helping your young child develop said background knowledge will put them in a fantastic spot as they enter school. They'll 'get the joke' - it's a bit like velcro for the brain. Nothing sticks for the students that enter school without the cognitive velcro that is domain-specific background knowledge. I know this sounds completely contrary to the progressive education philosophies that domain our culture about teaching kids how to think vs what to think... no memorization, etc. It surprised me too. Check out the work of cognitive scientist Daniel T. Willingham, Natalie Wexler (The Knowledge gap is a great book) or E.D. Hirsch for a deep dive.
- tmaly 6y ago
  I have a 7 year old in school now. The homework is pretty generic. There is not much in the way of domain-specific knowledge. We do some activities at home. Chemistry, electronics, scratch programming. Stuff that is not taught in schools. I use to live in radio shack as a kid. Putting together circuits was thrilling.
  - seg_lol 6y ago
    I am in no way saying you are doing this, comment is for the thread as well as you. As others have mentioned in this discussion, I think giving the child both a sense and actual control over what they work on is one of the keys. Children want to please their parents, so they might work on things that they think you would like. They are extremely good at reading people even if other actions seem uncoordinated. It is best to listen, in all senses of the word, to child and find out what they really like. Once you have found that, you have to make enough space for it to bloom. One example for me was in getting my very adventurous athletic child to ride a scooter and a bike. I thought she would be one of those badass three year olds skating around with the big kids. She didn't really take to it, I tried to push it a little bit and I found myself a little deflated when said she didn't like it. I sat back and figured out that I wanted it, and it wasn't fair for me to put that on to her. A smile isn't always a smile and encouragement is always what it seems. i backed off, would ask about it once in awhile but didn't pressure her again. About 6 months ago she asked to ride the bike again, that she really wanted to learn. I told her she is gonna crash, it might hurt, but that anyone can do it. In 5 days of two 20-30 minute sessions a day, she was starting, stopping and turning all on her own. She was so excited to have learned it, I could see the accomplishment on her whole being. Humans are wonderful all purpose devices, the spark that guides us the leads to our differentiation is the interest reward function. Capabilities are one thing, but interest, genuine interest is where the magic lies. The most interesting people are to me are the ones that ask the best questions, or give the answer you weren't expecting. Our job as parents, I believe is to be a social and metacognitive mirror so that everyone can get a different perspective to explore and understand the world.
voisin 6y ago
I’d recommend reading up on Unschooling, even if you don’t plan to keep your kids out of school to Unschool. It is essentially giving them broad exposure to things, seeing what areas capture their imagination, and then supporting those areas as much as possible. Never forcing them to learn something because of how you feel something should be learned (which kills natural interest and excitement for learning) - they will come around to learning important things when they are ready! You want them to think on their own. The best way to do this is to allow them to think on their own and nurture their own excitement to do so.
- tmaly 6y ago
  Have you tried to Unschool kids? What reading or other material have you enjoyed on this topic?
  - voisin 6y ago
    Our eldest would just be starting kindergarten so our first hand experience is limited, but we have connected with tons of people that homeschool and unschool and had planned to do this even pre-Covid. We move a lot and wanted to have a more hands-on approach to teaching our kids so we started with homeschool research but unschooling has seemed like a far better fit. We’ve read a lot, my wife far more than me. It has been amazing hearing from people with older kids who, thanks to Covid, have been forced to try home learning and now aren’t going back. Several people we know have started unschooling kids older than ours and have seen a dramatic improvement in their kids’ confidence and interest in exploring new things. This list of resources is pretty great: https://livingjoyfully.ca/resources/ https://livingjoyfully.ca/resources/ The book Free to Learn and the John Holt books listed are excellent starting points. We would also highly recommend Pam Laricchia’s books and podcasts.
starkred 6y ago
My usual answer is 'by example'. I like to think I'm teaching my kid to think. Last night we started wondering why fish can swim near sharks and not get eaten. We talked, we speculated, we joked, we researched and discussed what we had found. I wasn't trying to teach her to think. I had no ulterior motives at all, I was genuinely curious about shark feeding behavior. As I look back on it now I feel like I was teaching her to think by encouraging her to think, sincerely considering her ideas, showing her how to test them, and coming away with more knowledge than we started with.
whalesalad 6y ago
Farnam Street has a big collection of videos focused on kids: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKj_FalLDOFtiAlsQwLTayQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKj_FalLDOFtiAlsQwLTayQ/vid...
- tmaly 6y ago
  I often try to explain mental models to her using some of the material from FS. We have covered Inversion, Second Order Thinking, Occam's razor
  - whalesalad 6y ago
    Occam's razor is a really fantastic concept for a kid to learn early on!
    - tmaly 6y ago
      I think there is one flaw to Occam's razor. Who decides what the simplest explanation is?
saint_abroad 6y ago
Foster an environment where kids can practice asking (the right) questions: https://youtu.be/APVaTRNQmJc https://youtu.be/APVaTRNQmJc Good activities are open-ended for more opportunity to question. Drop an egg, improve its survivability.
- tmaly 6y ago
  that is a great video. Can you suggest any more like it?
  - saint_abroad 6y ago
    Encourage kids to hypothesise, experiment, fail, adjust and succeed: https://youtu.be/9vJRopau0g0 https://youtu.be/9vJRopau0g0 Actively prevent loss-aversion from being the only learned lesson of failure. Encourage risk-taking by providing a safe space to fail: https://youtu.be/lJs-RiPOKVY https://youtu.be/lJs-RiPOKVY
ChicagoBoy11 6y ago
I had the pleasure to spend a few years with an incredibly creative family, in all domains (family unit consisted of nobel prize winner, renowned academics, award winning authors, artists), and the one thing which always stood out to me was how they had such a deep culture of rewarding curiosity, thinking, and exploration. I have no idea how conscious it was on the family's part, but it seemed like everyone in that family ALWAYS had a creative project that they were thinking about, talking about, and was celebrated by all in the family. It could be the dad talking about some data he was cleaning, or the younger kids about some new comic character they were developing, etc. It was clear that there was absolutely NO judgement as to what everyone's endeavor was, but that being a creative person and exploring and thinking was table stakes to being part of that family. I don't know what the answer is, but I think if you manage to cultivate that kind of culture in your household, everything else will come easier, because above all, it seemed like they all had JOY in doing all of this. I could easily see how it could become a chore and even a burden, but somehow those parents really managed to lose sight of having everyone see thinking and exploring as primarily a fun thing to do, and it seems to have stuck.
- tmaly 6y ago
  I agree, I think there is something important about cultivating curiosity. This whole question got started in my mind after recently reading the book A Mathematician's Lament. The comparison in the book is along the lines of memorizing methods and facts verse exploring ideas with the mind. It's this idea of pursuing anything interesting just for the sake of it.
  - animationwill 6y ago
    I've watched several lectures on the subject. Teaching isn't learning, and some of the best teachers rather motivate children to learn on their own through internal or external motivation Could you elaborate on the insight you learned from "A mathematican's lament"?
    - tmaly 6y ago
      What I took away from A Mathematican's Lament ties back to 2001 after the dotcom boom. I made an acquaintance with a retired math professor. We had some long discussions about education. He had stated he kept his kids out of school as long as he could. It was his view that much of the structure of the public education taught your child not to think. His son eventually went on to get a PHD in theoretical physics if is any reflection on his methods. The book itself is more focused on math, but the general idea not quite different from education in general: "So how do we teach our students to do mathematics? By choosing engaging and natural problems suitable to their tastes, personalities, and levels of experience. By giving them time to make discoveries and formulate conjectures. By helping them to refine their arguments and creating an atmosphere of healthy and vibrant mathematical criticism. By being flexible and open to sudden changes in the direction to which their curiosity may lead. In short, by having an honest intellectual relationship with our students and our subject."
shireboy 6y ago
Not 100% sure what aspect of thinking you mean, but in general, Read, read, read. Figure out how best to do for your family, but for ours (4,8,11yo, but we've done this since the first was ~3): * Every night, read them out loud classic books slightly over recommended reading age. We started with Jungle Book, Riki Tiki Tavi, other Kipling, Bears on Hemlock Mountain, etc. These days we just finished Lord of the Rings and are doing Silmarillion. Jules Verne is another favorite. * Audio books. We use Audible and always play something when traveling to swim practice, etc. Boxcar Children, Historical fiction, Paddington, etc. * Encourage imaginative play based on the stories. Ours have an ongoing play containing Hobbits, bears, elves, Harry Potter and Star Wars ;) Encourage them to make up and tell their own stories. * Go to the library weekly (ours just reopened on a limited basis). We let ours check out 5 books of whatever they want, but say 2 must be history, science, literature, etc. Get them their own card as soon as possible. While fiction might not seem at first to "teach kids how to think", it really can. It simulates what people are thinking in various situations the kids can relate to. Storytelling can help them reinforce that and extrapolate to new scenarios in fun, safe ways. Mensa has some great reading lists: https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/ https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/ Not reading, but we also: * Discuss and research together in depth things that interest us and them. For example, I talk to mine about the latest space news over dinner. They love hearing about various missions, challenges to space travel, etc. * Play chess and/or other strategy games. * DuoLingo on a regular basis. We let ours choose what language - I have one doing Dutch and one doing Latin. * Code.org, youtube DIY and educational channels Again, I believe in aiming slightly over their heads. Not so much you bore them to death, but enough to get gears turning. Even if they don't retain details, it builds a framework for them to build on. Susan Wise Bauer in The Well Trained Mind talks about how doing this can provide "coat hangers" for them to hang bigger thoughts and more details on in later years.
- tmaly 6y ago
  That mensa list looks great, thank you for sharing. I have been trying to read to the kids as much as I can. It depends on homework and schedules. Right now we are almost through The Hobbit.
WhompingWindows 6y ago
Let them explore the physical world/science/art/music on their own, then they will think on their own. If you put materials/devices in front of them, they won't be interacting with the physical world, but with someone else's thoughts.
andi999 6y ago
I believe you should ban 'because I say so' as an answer. I dont know if it is good or harmful, but I generally say if I dont know an answer and if I know it is a question the answer nobody in the world knows, I will say this as well.
- AnxietyBytes 6y ago
  This. I remember my parents using this excuse all the time when I was a kid and it felt like such a cop-out. There is an answer for everything, even if it is "I don't know" or "nobody knows". I despise "because I said so" now and my wife and I don't use that phrase with our 5 year old, we always try to find the best answer to his endless list of questions.
  - andi999 6y ago
    The only thing I worry about there (i worry a lot...), maybe this dispise in the child can trigger to find out what really goes on. (Cannot explain well, its like you need to ban swearwords otherwise they wouldnt have any emotional power)
biophysboy 6y ago
Kids really love silly. I think this is key to getting them to think. For example, with my very young niece, I would tell her nonsense stories, where there's a purple lion on the back of the turtle, etc. Keeping track of this weird story kept her gears spinning. Other times I would tease her and say that my name was her name, or that blue was purple. I would try to mimic her voice, or draw out syllables in a funny way. The net result is hilarious conversations where she is explaining very carefully why I am not her, and why colors are different. Basically, keeping things fun is useful for everyone, but even more for kids.
- thorstenn 6y ago
  I've found the same thing. It's a good way of keeping kids thinking while having fun. Furthermore I think it builds confidence in their own way of thinking and a natural scepticism to new information. Is the world playing tricks with me again or is it valid information?
sundarurfriend 6y ago
A similar question came up on the Less Wrong forums recently (more specifically focused on rational/critical thinking and scientific experimentation): https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yF6FLgWnRdKMYpm9g/rationality-for-kids https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yF6FLgWnRdKMYpm9g/rationalit...
- tmaly 6y ago
  this is the first I have heard of this forum. Are there any other posts you recommend on there?
  - feydaykyn 6y ago
    You can read "Harry Potter and the Method of rationality", by the author, it's a fun rewrite of Harry potter, and it's instructive as a bonus! https://www.hpmor.com/ https://www.hpmor.com/
  - sundarurfriend 6y ago
    (Assuming you mean posts relevant to the topic here:) Since I don't have kids, this isn't something I've looked out for, so all I was able to find were a post[1] linked from the comments on the above link, and then two posts linked from there [2] [3]. The Parenting tag [4] might also be of some interest to you. [1] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/wSEGsjDPtSWkAtXce/teaching-rationality-to-kids https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/wSEGsjDPtSWkAtXce/teaching-r... [2] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/NAfZr8tHe5fPZyab4/bed-time-stories-with-clear-concepts https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/NAfZr8tHe5fPZyab4/bed-time-s... [3] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZhoyWrqXRShbee4bS/raising-numerate-children https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZhoyWrqXRShbee4bS/raising-nu... [4] https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/parenting https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/parenting
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jl6 6y ago
Mine are in that age range. Here’s what I try. * When they ask a question, I often say “I don’t know” in order to stimulate a discussion rather than just telling them the answer, and also to make it clear it’s OK not to know things. * As well as “I don’t know”, I might also ask them why they think something and whether they would like to do a test or experiment to help them find out. I’m not talking science experiments really - questions like “Why is your shirt always tucked in?” I would answer by trying to put some action on them, like saying “Why don’t you try some different styles and see which one is best and then I might change my mind?”. * I ask them questions about everyday situations even when I wouldn’t expect them to have any sensible answer (e.g. “what do you think I should write in this email to my boss?”), just to help broaden their understanding of the world and to demonstrate seeking advice and input from others. * I sometimes throw them out into the garden and tell them to do whatever they like. Make-believe, bash rocks, whatever. As long as they are forced to entertain themselves! * I let them watch YouTube on the TV (supervised), but I set the PIN as a solution to a puzzle. Turns out they like solving the puzzles as much as watching YouTube trash. * On the theme of trash content consumption, I don’t ban it but try to talk about it (aside from setting some reasonable time limits), guiding the conversation towards questioning why they would want to spend their time on that. And you know what, sometimes they happen upon something cool and I let them change my mind and we watch it together. * I tell lots of bedtime stories that I make up as we go along, letting them decide some things as we go. Strangely, eldest loves this but youngest is indifferent and would rather hear something familiar. * Recognizing that they are still young kids and still letting them be kids and not expecting them to be debate prodigies or other tiger parent nonsense.
- MarcScott 6y ago
  All great points, but I never say "I don't know" if I actually know an answer. I've always provided answers to my kids (both biological and students I've taught) if I know the answer. It often then stimulates further discussion and can lead to even more complex questions. As an example, my son often asks me scientific questions, and I provide the answers, and we talk a little around the subject. Eventually he stumped me though, when he asked if you were travelling at the speed of light would you cast a shadow. At that point I actually had to say "I don't know" and we ended up asking Twitter for an answer, and we both learned something. https://twitter.com/Coding2Learn/status/715247765547270144 https://twitter.com/Coding2Learn/status/715247765547270144
hosh 6y ago
The ideas I had been studying these days come from Carol Sandford. I am not sure how to summerize her work. In the case of developing a person’s (be they children, teens, or adult) capabilities, it comes in a couple ways: 1. First, linking intrinsic motivation with something meaningfully contributes to something outside of them. The catch? This is something the person chooses for themselves, based on what Sandford calls “essence”. Rewards and incentives are still external. Whatever is chosen may be beyond the child’s current capability. 2. A framework (a way of seeing the world and self) is given so that the child can grow his own capability in order to accomplish what he set out to contribute. Those things like observation, problem solving, critical thinking, systems thinking are developed by the child, and driven by the child’s intrinsic motivation. There is a lot more to that, and I am still learning and applying this myself. Something like this does not require a child to have genius level iq.
- tmaly 6y ago
  What books or resources from Carol Sandford have found most interesting?
  - hosh 6y ago
    She has a lot of resources that sprawl all over, including numerous podcast interviews and blog posts. She had been doing this for 40 years now. If you ever heard of things like “regenerative growth” from the business world, it came from her. The biggest thing about what she teaches is a different way of viewing the world. How to identify the paradigm, epistemology, and frame, including your own patterns of thinking. The kind of problems she is addressing cannot be solved through the paradigm that generated those problems. I would say start with _Regenerative Life_ unless you intend to try applying this in business first. I think she has community somewhere specifically for educators and homeschoolers, but it is radically different because it is developed from a regenerative paradigm. If you are looking for a single resource that gives you a broad taste of many of the things she teaches, I’d say go with this podcast interview: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-regenerative-real-estate-podcast/id1500361677?i=1000489170016 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-regenerative-real-...
  - 6y ago
Jun8 6y ago
To exercise pure thinking skills and empathy (as opposed to STEM, etc.) a great approach is to discuss philosophical/moral problems with the, treating their opinion seriously. A good book to use is: The Pig That Wants To Be Eaten”, but any example from daily life or movies can be used.
- tmaly 6y ago
  This is the first I have heard of The Pig That Wants To Be Eaten thank you for the recommendation. What did you like most about this book?
  - Jun8 6y ago
    It lists many dilemmas from various areas of life explained in a simple way with examples, so you don't lose the kid's attention. Some of them are classical ethical problems so you can take your discussion as deeps you want.
Bandrsnatch 6y ago
The answer is to put them into situations where they have to think on their own. Also, lots of board games, word games, and role playing games. Always ask the child why something happened the way it did and then give them hints to think about. Read to them and ask them questions about what is happening in the book.
- tmaly 6y ago
  what are some of your favorite games?
rlonn 6y ago
I make up outrageous stuff all the time and will only come clean after some pressuring from the kids. Either it's worked wonders or my 6-year old is just a natural because she takes nothing for granted! Her teacher tried to show her that it's ok to make mistakes because it's a natural part of learning. She said "Look at your little brother; he can't walk yet but he's trying and trying and falling all the time. But eventually all those falls will have taught him to walk!" My daughter considered it, then looked her teacher in the eye and replied "we don't know that yet".
- ramshanker 6y ago
  That was awesome. She was being truthful, to say the least. :D
tlarkworthy 6y ago
My wife makes low effort stem activities for kids on youtube. Like dungeons and dragons-lite https://youtu.be/RHyAGwUOhkA https://youtu.be/RHyAGwUOhkA . It's more for 4-6 year olds but my children seem to be very strong on experiment design compared to other kids their age. We very much push a narrative of "Let's find out"
yboris 6y ago
I can highly recommend philosophy. I have not researched this area, but I am sure there are other organizations that encourage kids to become more reflective and to not jump to quick conclusions while thinking. Here's one: https://www.paradoxlab.org/ https://www.paradoxlab.org/ What's praise-worthy about this initiative is philosophy Ph.D. - level organizers: https://www.paradoxlab.org/our-team-1 https://www.paradoxlab.org/our-team-1
- tmaly 6y ago
  I agree about philosophy. I stumbled upon this book Big Ideas for Curious Minds: An Introduction to Philosophy when I was wandering the library on my lunch break last year.
ivankirigin 6y ago
Debate. Learning how to represent both sides of an argument is both academically rigorous and opens kids to the idea that there are other sides. You can do this at the dinner table, but also through formal debate clubs and classes. There are some doing this over zoom.
seg_lol 6y ago
I constantly tell them verifiable lies, but you need to make them cute, fun and solvable. No one wants to solve riddles that are so obtuse as to not even try. My six year old has the bullshit detector of a street smart teenager, not in all aspects, but in enough. I cried a little bit when she asked me, "how do you know that is true?"
jMyles 6y ago
I have found the randomizer fan mods of classic SNES games to be wonderful teachers and logic and problem solving. <proud papa incoming> My kid got to Ganon in Link to the Past Randomizer a week before his fifth birthday. I see him applying the same type of logical processing - and readiness to deal with randomness in the world - throughout his play and behavior.
lettergram 6y ago
Ironically enough, I actually wrote about just this topic... https://austingwalters.com/talk-to-yourself/ https://austingwalters.com/talk-to-yourself/ IMO it’s all about giving kids time alone, Not stimulated, to learn how to think about the voice in their head. A lot of what we do is try to inject more stimulus to teach, instead (and this is similar to the Montessori school of thought) they need some time to formulate a self image and learn to reflect and build an ego (self).
noobhacker 6y ago
A great way is to encourage them to question the rules that they have to follow, including your own. That's something they already do, and most enjoy doing. We just need to guide them to question the rules in a coherent manner. Besides critical thinking and argumentation, by letting them question your own rule, the meta skill you're demonstrating here is intellectual humility, IMO the most prized quality of a great thinker.
verisimilidude 6y ago
I don’t think one size fits all here. I have two kids in this age range and they respond to different approaches. My daughter is very creative and loves to spin up ideas and stories. When she asks me a question about the universe, I throw it back at her. “Daddy, why do flies have such thin wings? Why don’t they break?” “Well, what do YOU think?” She’ll then invent some explanations, we’ll have fun questioning them, and eventually look up some real answers. My son is much more execution-minded. He usually asks questions because he wants to understand how to build something. With Legos. In Minecraft. Whatever. He’s less interested in creative word play and more interested in creative building. Sometimes I can use the same tricks as with my daughter. “How do you think it works?” With him, I can often reframe the question and make him grapple with his goal at a higher level. “Sure, here’s how a gear box works. But what do you really want to accomplish here? Is there a better way to do this?” I haven’t read any books, this just seems to work for us. In either case, it’s critical to encourage kids to ask questions, and to teach them how to ask effective questions.
jkingsbery 6y ago
First, find something that excites them. If it doesn't excite them, they won't engage with it and they won't take any lessons from it. Physical learning seems to be important. Legos, science experiments, flying kites, etc., are all great ways for kids to learn about things in a concrete way. One science experiment I did with my oldest daughter was a "Will it sink or float?" experiment that is easy to do - just get a tub of water and random house hold items (coins; cereal; piece of bread; piece of paper; etc.). Reading to them, and stopping to ask them questions about the book. What's happening on this page? How do you think that character feels? What do you think is going to happen next? Show your kids that they can write stories. It doesn't have to be something fancy, just a bunch of pictures on regular printer paper, each with a sentence describing what's happening. If your kids are too young to write the words themselves, you can ask them what the page should say and write it for them. Let them be bored sometimes. When given nothing to do, kids are forced to figure something to do by themselves.
m-i-l 6y ago
At our school there is a lot of support for the "growth mindset". In summary, you praise the effort more than the results, believing anyone can do pretty much anything with enough effort (contrast with the "fixed mindset" where abilities are considered innate). Keeps children actively learning, and not resting on laurels or giving up because they think they aren't good enough. Seems to make sense - I remember reading about all the child geniuses that end up not amounting to much as adults, the theory being that they stopped putting effort in given they hadn't developed a connection between effort and outcome. Just reading up on the "growth mindset" now, and it seems there is some recent criticism of the idea, although that stems from inability to replicate the research results, not that there is a more widely preferred alternative.
- tmaly 6y ago
  I praise my daughter telling her she worked hard, that is why she got her results. I think that aspect of growth mindset is still valid. If you tell a kid they are smart, they will be in for a shock when someone smarter comes along.
kazinator 6y ago
Thinking requires forming hypotheses and ideas, which is an act of the imagination. Probably the most important thing is to help stimulate a child's imagination and support their curiosity. In a situation that requires thinking, encourage the child to come up with more than one idea. Praise every idea.
loughnane 6y ago
My kids are still young (11,7,4) so we'll see how it turns out, but we've got a strong culture of asking questions in our house. I do it so frequently that when we sit down at the table I often get asked "can we do questions". Sometimes they request specific questions (so they can show off what they've learned) and I lob them softballs (addition, geography, and other stuff they are learning about in schools often shows up). But sometimes I like to explore deeper questions that don't have clear answers. For example: - Why are some people rich and some people poor - What is justice? - What does it mean to be a good man? - Who should pay your teachers? and so on. A lot of the source topics are covered in classical books, particularly Plato's Republic (a dialogue where they go about conjuring up an ideal society), but I find that the kids will quickly take it in their own direction. Honestly it's one of the more enjoyable things I get to do with the kids.
qwert12345887 6y ago
To add on how do you teach adults to have a curious mind.
tracer4201 6y ago
I grew up in a very poor household where the emphasis was on getting good grades so you could go on to get a wel paying “job”. Please don’t do that to your kids. If you have the means (not everyone does), check in with them on homework, for example. See what they’re learning about — and ask them questions about it. Show curiosity and interest. In my opinion, that is a good way to jump start your child’s curiosity. Help them understand the significance of what they’re learning - if you’re able to. Ask them to question things. I grew up in a household where I took textbooks and papers as all being fundamentally correct and true, and that’s not always the case. Skepticism is a good thing. Encourage your children not to take things at face value but dive a bit deeper to understand if something really makes sense or if it’s even true.
mleonard 6y ago
Two quick book recommendations: Learning how to learn for teens Getting things done (gtd) for teens
supernihil 6y ago
I have had a kind of struggle to bring up kids while being in the skizophrenic spectrum And providing the income as a dev. But my approach has always been: 1. Read every day and spice it up with my own freaky tales of spiderman, witches, jungles etc. My dad used to do the same and my kids like it a lot. 2. Be outside in all weather and all times. Nothing hits jumping in pools of water with or without boots. We dig a lot in a nearby field of dirt, making caves and talking about materials etc. Also we like fishing crabs and making bonfires year around. Being outside is the only place i am at piece with my sickened head so it also means they get to spend time with "not stressed dad" 3. We draw a lot, have paper and drawing stuff everywhere. We hang them up and talk about them. 4. Recently we have begun to make simple "turtle drawing" programs together to show them how fun it is that if you can instruct a computer to draw one tree you can also tell it to draw 100 different trees of different size and colors. 5. We talk a lot and we never "dumb it down" instead i spin the history stories or the science stuff i like to talk baout so they get intrugued . The outcome: they are happy. I value their happyness as its sadly not the feeling i wear. My sadness is not invisible to them but the time we spend together and my openness about it has not yet had a negative impact on them. They are also very socially engaged and thoughtful which i hope is as well connected to the many different types of people, from all layers of society, that they see me talking to.
Lammy 6y ago
Awareness of one's self is a must before thinking about anything else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-enquiry_(Ramana_Maharshi) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-enquiry_(Ramana_Maharshi)
mixmastamyk 6y ago
A worthy goal. It is important to realize that kid's brains are still developing, so it's important to realize that and not get frustrated if they cannot yet perform at a more advanced level. I forget this sometimes myself so am mentioning it here.
kangnkodos 6y ago
Listen to them, and follow where they lead you.
- tmaly 6y ago
  Listening is the key. So often we are tempted to dismiss what they say or to not place much thought on it. How did they come up with their statement?
lubujackson 6y ago
A lot of people have mentioned answering questions. We like to answer what we can and aren't afraid to say "I don't know, let's look it up." Then we read Wikipedia or watch a YouTube or talk about it. So the first thing is not to squash their curiosity. The second is to train them how to find answers. Right now, we find the answers with our 6 year old but soon he will be able to do it himself. Something people haven't really mentioned, and is hard to do as a parent, is to get out of the way. Give them a problem or a tool and let them get bored. Boredom is the scarcest resource we have nowadays and it is critical to let kids be bored so their natural curiosity can take over and lead them to do things that they want to do, not what they are told.
stakkur 6y ago
Learning 'how to think' isn't exactly a goal for 6-8-year-olds. At this age, the focus should be on integration--learning to get the mind and body (and will or spirit) working together, being in the world. 'Thinking' isn't really the focus. Ages 6-8 also involve two separate developmental periods: a six-year-old is in a much different place than an 8-year-old. I like how Waldorf approaches this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education#Developmental_approach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education#Developmenta... Notice that 'thinking' isn't really a focus with Waldorf until around age 14.
- tmaly 6y ago
  I am not too familiar with the Waldorf system. If we were to invert the question, How to teach kids not to think? What would the answer look like?
kirillzubovsky 6y ago
We try to encourage our kids to think/wonder at every opportunity. When they ask a question, instead of giving them an answer, we just ask what they think first. Often that leads to a rather wild/creative prediction, something that comes out of their understanding of thew world, which although limited, is beautiful. We explore forward from there. Generally, it helps to put kids in charge of their own life in whichever capacity they can at this point in time. If they know they can put on their own shoes, clean their own dishes, make their own breakfast ...etc, they also learn implicitly that they have full ownership of their thinking too. To be honest, it's hard because very often it's easier for us, the parents, to just have the kids do what we need them to do, rather than what kids want to do, or think is the best way to do it. But, it's a tradeoff. When they get more freedom, they engulf in it. My 2c.
nomoreusernames 6y ago
you dont teach them how to think, you give them space to make mistakes and learn from them, and when they lack a quality that they need to solve a problem, you wait until they exhaust themselves and then you give them a hint (not a direct one, but one bound to the domain they need to learn). you keep doing this. and you tell them to question their selves. and through experimentation you tech them not to take 'failure' as failure but to understand the bigger picture and that they are just confirming through failure. they are working on a problem. and they should never associate their self image with the thing they are studying. and tech them to study all sides to get the bigger picture. not just individual pieces. and have fun. if the kids not smiling or looking excited/anxious about the results. then something is not right. let them lead the course. you are just like a good psychologist. supposed to sit there and help them not to do stupid and dangerous stuff. but ultimately you let them self develop and grow at their own pace in their own way.
tubularhells 6y ago
Strategy board games, not just go and chess but more modern ones like Pipeline, Nevsky, Lisboa to mention 3 radically different games) will both engage the mind of young kids and allow for them to build mental maps at their own pace. look for medium-heavy boardgames on boargamegeek for you to play with your kids, and the two of you can develop the kids taste and cognitive abilities at the same time while having fun. I do not recmend the above games to 6-8yo, buy something like Azul Summer Pavilion might be up their alley.
- tmaly 6y ago
  Have you ever heard of this game called Cat Crimes?
  - tubularhells 6y ago
    No, and it doesn't seem have a BGG page either.
ibobev 6y ago
Isn't learning basic math and programming a good start for developing logical thinking? There are programming languages like Scratch[1] intended for teaching programming to very young kids. I never try it, but maybe it is a good start for developing logical thinking in young age. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_%28programming_language%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_%28programming_languag...
- tmaly 6y ago
  I do teach Scratch, it allows for more creativity than other platforms. However, there are still some very abstract concepts that kids do not really get till they reach the 4th and 5th grades. 1st graders really struggled with it in my experience. If you have a parent with programming experience it is usually not an issue.

264 points by tmaly 6y ago

There is a lot of material out there for teens and older kids. I am curious what material or activities you use for kids ages 6-8 for helping them to learn to think on their own.

tboyd47 6y ago

Show them by example how to be skeptical without accusing people of lying, and mention often the many reasons why people say things that might not be completely true. Also, you need to make sure you yourself don't lie to them. A lot of parents still teach their kids to believe in Santa Claus. I know this is one of those cultural sacred cows, but I strongly think this should not be done. Kids need to be able to trust their parents and caregivers to a higher degree than the rest of society. I've done some formal "activities" with them in homeschooling, like sorting "real" vs. "not real," but even I don't think those are as good as leading by example.

circlefavshape 6y ago
I don't agree about Santa Claus fwiw. This is culture-specific, but here (Ireland) he's an integral part of Christmas, and of the excitement about Christmas that kids experience. Santa Claus is the only lie I've ever consciously told my kids. By doing so I've given them access to a great deal of joy and fun, both individual and communal. Should I have deprived them of that because I wanted be absolutely consistent, or to feel virtuous?
- InvaderFizz 6y ago
  This will end up being a personal decision that each parent makes. Much like the previous commenter, my wife and I made a conscious decision to separate myth from fact. Everything fictional is in "stories." I never want to be in the position where I consciously lie to my son, so Santa Claus is very clearly a story. That said, we can do all sorts of fun imaginative things with story characters because we know they are not real. This allows us to have the magic of Santa, without eventually having a large breach of trust.
  - Izkata 6y ago
    > This will end up being a personal decision that each parent makes. And because of that I want to add how my parents did it, which was kind of along the lines of "teaching children to think": They kept up the myth until we started questioning it, turning it into a sort of rite of passage. I figured it out in 2nd grade, age 7 or 8, right at the point OP is asking about.
  - circlefavshape 6y ago
    You and your son can do fun imaginative things, but I suspect he will not be able to fully share in the fantasy world that other kids who believe in Santa inhabit. But that's fine, it's your decision - parenthood (like everything) is all about tradeoffs like this
  - riffraff 6y ago
    > I never want to be in the position where I consciously lie to my son, so Santa Claus is very clearly a story. I find this interesting: do you believe there is something intrinsically bad in the lies? Normally, I would think they lead to lack of trust, but I don't seem to remember children losing trust in their parents when they discovered _they_ are really Santa Claus. I mean, it seems to me that not all un-truths are created equal.
    - big_curses 6y ago
      I'm not the person you asked, but I could see there being harm in lying to children about how reality works. When children are first growing up, they have no clue about the nature of reality, of what is and is not possible, but their brains are constantly gobbling up data on what the world is like. From this, one forms concepts of how things relate to each other. Ideally as they do this, there are no contradictions between their concepts, or they're worked out over time, but in lying to a child and feeding them this false information, you are introducing contradictions into their concepts and distorting their view of reality. And one's view of reality directly relates to their ability to interact with it in a self-beneficial way. Now I can't say that this will actually have much of an effect, like I said, we can naturally work out these contradictions over time, but I think this is why one should not lie to children in general. Like you say, not all untruths are created equal. It could be quite easy for them to fix their concepts once they realize it is a lie, but perhaps it could have some lingering effects. I can't say. I'm not a psychologist and each individual, and their mind, is different.
- andi999 6y ago
  No easter bunny for your kids?
  - circlefavshape 6y ago
    We don't really have easter bunny in Ireland
    - andi999 6y ago
      Ahh. Didnt know. So what about st patrick driving out the snakes?
      - circlefavshape 6y ago
        haha - we have st. patrick's day obvs, with various traditions associated with it, but the snake myth is not something anyone really subscribes to or cares about
natmaka 6y ago
Santa Claus may be 'intellectually' useful starting from the instant the kid learns that is is a myth, because this may teach him that seeing everybody apparently believe in something doesn't preclude that, in fact, nearly nobody does. This may be of paramount importance when it comes to forming a critical mind. Moreover any human group is built upon myths.
- tboyd47 6y ago
  Critical thinking is a lot harder than just saying, "Don't believe other people." You have to teach that people may be trustworthy in one area, but not in another. You have to teach when you can take a statement on face value. You have to teach how to be skeptical of your own judgments and defer to others sometimes. You may also teach them how to spot liars. These things require time to understand and I don't see that happening if you sabotage the process by openly betraying them in a huge way early on.
  - natmaka 6y ago
    > Critical thinking is a lot harder than just saying, "Don't believe other people." Indeed, and I didn't write that the Santa Claus myth is sufficient on this behalf, but that it may help. Are you rejecting anything but a perfect (simple and exhaustive) way to teach critical thinking? I never crossed one, and doubt it exists for any complex philosophical asset. Refusing any other way exposes to the 'perfect solution fallacy'. > if you sabotage the process by openly betraying them in a huge way early on. I doubt kids learning that Santa Claus is a myth feel betrayed, and never perceived it (I was born in 1967 and have a daughter). The SC myth is well-built because when discovering its nature a kid understands that the lie is innocuous and even pleasant (gifts, gatherings...), and therefore not really a 'betraying'. He can then proceed to other conclusions about intents, the way he forms his own beliefs... I'm not fond of the SC myth nor do I practice it, however I try to be objective (this is part of critical thinking!).
EvanAnderson 6y ago
My wife and I agreed to be rigorously honest with our daughter. When "Santa" came up I was initially very uncomfortable with the lie. After discussing it with my wife we opted to go on with the lie under the conditions that it not be used for any kind of negative reinforcement-- none of the "Santa is watching you..." kind of stuff-- and that the "reveal" needed to be handled appropriately. When she does deduce the lie the plan is to explain to her as such: - It's a tradition that is passed down to bring joy to children. It allows parents to give gifts in a way that carries no expectation of thanks or praise. - She is now in on the "secret". It's her responsibility to guard the secret the same way her parents did before her. She knows what joy it brought to her and she shouldn't spoil that joy for others. - We do not lie to her, as a rule. We took this very seriously and thought hard about it. We decided the joy it would bring to her, and to the people she might one day be "Santa" for, was worth betraying her trust in this case. I still don't feel great about it, but I can live w/ myself. The little girl is 7 right now. She has said stuff like "I think Santa is really you and Mom". She also questions that conclusion, though, because because she says, effectively, that she doesn't have evidence for it. (I need talk about about Occam's razor and the idea that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... >smile<)
- ravi-delia 6y ago
  It's funny, my parents did exactly the same thing and while I enjoyed playing along I can't recall ever believing a word of it. I'm not sure how my gut so quickly got to the truth. Maybe people deep down follow Occam's razor, though more likely I just got it by osmosis. To tell you the truth, I think back to that when I question my gut to this day. I'm thankful my parents never lied to me outside of it, but the wonderful thing about Santa is that everyone is in on the conspiracy, so if you can see past it you'll only ever be more confident in the truth when you find it, without taking it for granted. If it means anything from a random person on hacker news, I benefited from being told that Santa existed, and from the sound of it your daughter will too.
- kirillzubovsky 6y ago
  LOL. My mom was visiting us when my 5 year old asked about Santa. I explained with a stone cold face that Santa isn't real, presents come from mom and dad, and instead of waiting for Xmas we just get her things when she needs them, and that's why she didn't get anything for Xmas while her friends did. My mom was petrified, but my daughter didn't seem to care. Kids are really okay with adult stuff, there is more than one way to sparkle delight in their life, and it doesn't have to be Santa (imo).
rlonn 6y ago
I beg to differ about the lying. Do lie about unimportant things, let them try and figure out the lie, then confess (regardless of whether they figured it out or not). It becomes like a game, and if you do it right, in a lighthearted way, they will also trust you when it counts.
- tboyd47 6y ago
  Wouldn't that also teach them to lie to you about things they consider "unimportant"?
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
We told our kids that Santa was a pretend game that adults play. But, um, I don't think we took the same tack with the Tooth Fairy. We told our kids that the Tooth Fairy recycled teeth - when they fell out of kids' mouths, the Tooth Fairy took them and gave them to babies that were just getting their teeth. So I guess I'm a hypocrite :-(

rglover 6y ago

Check out the book The Absorbent Mind by Maria Montessori.

pier25 6y ago
Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like a great book and is on sale now for Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/Absorbent-Mind-Unabridged-Start-Publishing-ebook/dp/B00CBDC1U6/ https://www.amazon.com/Absorbent-Mind-Unabridged-Start-Publi...
tmaly 6y ago
thank you for the recommendation, I am going to order a copy.
NAR8789 6y ago
Seconded! Montessori in general is worth a look. Jives with a lot of the other "provide an environment conducive to exploration" comments here, but also gets down to very concrete practices, e.g. foster independence by providing a predictable and child-sized environment so that children can e.g. make their own breakfast. This stands in contrast to modern practices of shuttling children from activity to activity, arranging their lives for them and depriving them of control. Independence in daily activities dovetails into independence in intellectual educations. Children tend to develop those activities over which they have the most hands-on control and most freedom for self-exploration.

deleted 6y ago

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gallamine 6y ago

A simple procedure that's worked ok so far has been to give answers then follow up with, "do you know why?" and get them to try and give a reason for my decision or judgement. I've noticed that eventually they're able to determine the reason for our parenting decisions. We also tend to give our children lots of decisions to make early on so that they're used to determining the costs and benefits of decisions, especially when it's cheap to make mistakes.

omarhaneef 6y ago

Also if someone has a recommendation on how to teach adults to think, that would be useful too. Ages 21-90. (Jokes aside, is it that different? Isn't the larger question: what does it mean to "think", and what does it mean to "teach" someone to do it?)

tmaly 6y ago
OP here, The Thinking Toolbox by Bluedorn is pretty good. The target age starts at 12-13. For me, this is still too advanced for the age range 6-8 I am looking for. The biggest challenge is taking these abstract ideas and making them accessible and interesting to a child. I taught a few lessons in Scratch programming last year to grades 1-5. Before I conceptualized the lessons, I had listened to the audio book Made to Stick. I found this was helpful in thinking about how I should communicate these abstract ideas about programming to younger kids.
- omarhaneef 6y ago
  I didn’t understand that you specifically meant how to think about programming. That is a more specific — and therefore more answerable — question. I thought you meant thinking in general from the post.
  - tmaly 6y ago
    I offered Scratch as a specific example, but I think the ideas can be applied in the general.

MichaelAO 6y ago

Core knowledge. Create an environment that encourages a love of reading as soon as possible and help them develop core knowledge about the world around them. This includes both language and facts/concepts about everything from ancient history to the solar system. Domain-specific background knowledge is incredibly important. It turns out (for the most part) there are no general purpose cognitive skills... it's all domain specific. A student that knows about baseball will comprehend an article about baseball much better than one that doesn't have the core knowledge of what a run, base, double, home run, etc. means. Decoding strategies be damned. Helping your young child develop said background knowledge will put them in a fantastic spot as they enter school. They'll 'get the joke' - it's a bit like velcro for the brain. Nothing sticks for the students that enter school without the cognitive velcro that is domain-specific background knowledge. I know this sounds completely contrary to the progressive education philosophies that domain our culture about teaching kids how to think vs what to think... no memorization, etc. It surprised me too. Check out the work of cognitive scientist Daniel T. Willingham, Natalie Wexler (The Knowledge gap is a great book) or E.D. Hirsch for a deep dive.

tmaly 6y ago
I have a 7 year old in school now. The homework is pretty generic. There is not much in the way of domain-specific knowledge. We do some activities at home. Chemistry, electronics, scratch programming. Stuff that is not taught in schools. I use to live in radio shack as a kid. Putting together circuits was thrilling.
- seg_lol 6y ago
  I am in no way saying you are doing this, comment is for the thread as well as you. As others have mentioned in this discussion, I think giving the child both a sense and actual control over what they work on is one of the keys. Children want to please their parents, so they might work on things that they think you would like. They are extremely good at reading people even if other actions seem uncoordinated. It is best to listen, in all senses of the word, to child and find out what they really like. Once you have found that, you have to make enough space for it to bloom. One example for me was in getting my very adventurous athletic child to ride a scooter and a bike. I thought she would be one of those badass three year olds skating around with the big kids. She didn't really take to it, I tried to push it a little bit and I found myself a little deflated when said she didn't like it. I sat back and figured out that I wanted it, and it wasn't fair for me to put that on to her. A smile isn't always a smile and encouragement is always what it seems. i backed off, would ask about it once in awhile but didn't pressure her again. About 6 months ago she asked to ride the bike again, that she really wanted to learn. I told her she is gonna crash, it might hurt, but that anyone can do it. In 5 days of two 20-30 minute sessions a day, she was starting, stopping and turning all on her own. She was so excited to have learned it, I could see the accomplishment on her whole being. Humans are wonderful all purpose devices, the spark that guides us the leads to our differentiation is the interest reward function. Capabilities are one thing, but interest, genuine interest is where the magic lies. The most interesting people are to me are the ones that ask the best questions, or give the answer you weren't expecting. Our job as parents, I believe is to be a social and metacognitive mirror so that everyone can get a different perspective to explore and understand the world.

voisin 6y ago

I’d recommend reading up on Unschooling, even if you don’t plan to keep your kids out of school to Unschool. It is essentially giving them broad exposure to things, seeing what areas capture their imagination, and then supporting those areas as much as possible. Never forcing them to learn something because of how you feel something should be learned (which kills natural interest and excitement for learning) - they will come around to learning important things when they are ready! You want them to think on their own. The best way to do this is to allow them to think on their own and nurture their own excitement to do so.

tmaly 6y ago
Have you tried to Unschool kids? What reading or other material have you enjoyed on this topic?
- voisin 6y ago
  Our eldest would just be starting kindergarten so our first hand experience is limited, but we have connected with tons of people that homeschool and unschool and had planned to do this even pre-Covid. We move a lot and wanted to have a more hands-on approach to teaching our kids so we started with homeschool research but unschooling has seemed like a far better fit. We’ve read a lot, my wife far more than me. It has been amazing hearing from people with older kids who, thanks to Covid, have been forced to try home learning and now aren’t going back. Several people we know have started unschooling kids older than ours and have seen a dramatic improvement in their kids’ confidence and interest in exploring new things. This list of resources is pretty great: https://livingjoyfully.ca/resources/ https://livingjoyfully.ca/resources/ The book Free to Learn and the John Holt books listed are excellent starting points. We would also highly recommend Pam Laricchia’s books and podcasts.

starkred 6y ago

My usual answer is 'by example'. I like to think I'm teaching my kid to think. Last night we started wondering why fish can swim near sharks and not get eaten. We talked, we speculated, we joked, we researched and discussed what we had found. I wasn't trying to teach her to think. I had no ulterior motives at all, I was genuinely curious about shark feeding behavior. As I look back on it now I feel like I was teaching her to think by encouraging her to think, sincerely considering her ideas, showing her how to test them, and coming away with more knowledge than we started with.

whalesalad 6y ago

Farnam Street has a big collection of videos focused on kids: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKj_FalLDOFtiAlsQwLTayQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKj_FalLDOFtiAlsQwLTayQ/vid...

tmaly 6y ago
I often try to explain mental models to her using some of the material from FS. We have covered Inversion, Second Order Thinking, Occam's razor
- whalesalad 6y ago
  Occam's razor is a really fantastic concept for a kid to learn early on!
  - tmaly 6y ago
    I think there is one flaw to Occam's razor. Who decides what the simplest explanation is?

saint_abroad 6y ago

Foster an environment where kids can practice asking (the right) questions: https://youtu.be/APVaTRNQmJc https://youtu.be/APVaTRNQmJc Good activities are open-ended for more opportunity to question. Drop an egg, improve its survivability.

tmaly 6y ago
that is a great video. Can you suggest any more like it?
- saint_abroad 6y ago
  Encourage kids to hypothesise, experiment, fail, adjust and succeed: https://youtu.be/9vJRopau0g0 https://youtu.be/9vJRopau0g0 Actively prevent loss-aversion from being the only learned lesson of failure. Encourage risk-taking by providing a safe space to fail: https://youtu.be/lJs-RiPOKVY https://youtu.be/lJs-RiPOKVY

ChicagoBoy11 6y ago

I had the pleasure to spend a few years with an incredibly creative family, in all domains (family unit consisted of nobel prize winner, renowned academics, award winning authors, artists), and the one thing which always stood out to me was how they had such a deep culture of rewarding curiosity, thinking, and exploration. I have no idea how conscious it was on the family's part, but it seemed like everyone in that family ALWAYS had a creative project that they were thinking about, talking about, and was celebrated by all in the family. It could be the dad talking about some data he was cleaning, or the younger kids about some new comic character they were developing, etc. It was clear that there was absolutely NO judgement as to what everyone's endeavor was, but that being a creative person and exploring and thinking was table stakes to being part of that family. I don't know what the answer is, but I think if you manage to cultivate that kind of culture in your household, everything else will come easier, because above all, it seemed like they all had JOY in doing all of this. I could easily see how it could become a chore and even a burden, but somehow those parents really managed to lose sight of having everyone see thinking and exploring as primarily a fun thing to do, and it seems to have stuck.

tmaly 6y ago
I agree, I think there is something important about cultivating curiosity. This whole question got started in my mind after recently reading the book A Mathematician's Lament. The comparison in the book is along the lines of memorizing methods and facts verse exploring ideas with the mind. It's this idea of pursuing anything interesting just for the sake of it.
- animationwill 6y ago
  I've watched several lectures on the subject. Teaching isn't learning, and some of the best teachers rather motivate children to learn on their own through internal or external motivation Could you elaborate on the insight you learned from "A mathematican's lament"?
  - tmaly 6y ago
    What I took away from A Mathematican's Lament ties back to 2001 after the dotcom boom. I made an acquaintance with a retired math professor. We had some long discussions about education. He had stated he kept his kids out of school as long as he could. It was his view that much of the structure of the public education taught your child not to think. His son eventually went on to get a PHD in theoretical physics if is any reflection on his methods. The book itself is more focused on math, but the general idea not quite different from education in general: "So how do we teach our students to do mathematics? By choosing engaging and natural problems suitable to their tastes, personalities, and levels of experience. By giving them time to make discoveries and formulate conjectures. By helping them to refine their arguments and creating an atmosphere of healthy and vibrant mathematical criticism. By being flexible and open to sudden changes in the direction to which their curiosity may lead. In short, by having an honest intellectual relationship with our students and our subject."

shireboy 6y ago

Not 100% sure what aspect of thinking you mean, but in general, Read, read, read. Figure out how best to do for your family, but for ours (4,8,11yo, but we've done this since the first was ~3): * Every night, read them out loud classic books slightly over recommended reading age. We started with Jungle Book, Riki Tiki Tavi, other Kipling, Bears on Hemlock Mountain, etc. These days we just finished Lord of the Rings and are doing Silmarillion. Jules Verne is another favorite. * Audio books. We use Audible and always play something when traveling to swim practice, etc. Boxcar Children, Historical fiction, Paddington, etc. * Encourage imaginative play based on the stories. Ours have an ongoing play containing Hobbits, bears, elves, Harry Potter and Star Wars ;) Encourage them to make up and tell their own stories. * Go to the library weekly (ours just reopened on a limited basis). We let ours check out 5 books of whatever they want, but say 2 must be history, science, literature, etc. Get them their own card as soon as possible. While fiction might not seem at first to "teach kids how to think", it really can. It simulates what people are thinking in various situations the kids can relate to. Storytelling can help them reinforce that and extrapolate to new scenarios in fun, safe ways. Mensa has some great reading lists: https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/ https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/ Not reading, but we also: * Discuss and research together in depth things that interest us and them. For example, I talk to mine about the latest space news over dinner. They love hearing about various missions, challenges to space travel, etc. * Play chess and/or other strategy games. * DuoLingo on a regular basis. We let ours choose what language - I have one doing Dutch and one doing Latin. * Code.org, youtube DIY and educational channels Again, I believe in aiming slightly over their heads. Not so much you bore them to death, but enough to get gears turning. Even if they don't retain details, it builds a framework for them to build on. Susan Wise Bauer in The Well Trained Mind talks about how doing this can provide "coat hangers" for them to hang bigger thoughts and more details on in later years.

tmaly 6y ago
That mensa list looks great, thank you for sharing. I have been trying to read to the kids as much as I can. It depends on homework and schedules. Right now we are almost through The Hobbit.

WhompingWindows 6y ago

Let them explore the physical world/science/art/music on their own, then they will think on their own. If you put materials/devices in front of them, they won't be interacting with the physical world, but with someone else's thoughts.

andi999 6y ago

I believe you should ban 'because I say so' as an answer. I dont know if it is good or harmful, but I generally say if I dont know an answer and if I know it is a question the answer nobody in the world knows, I will say this as well.

AnxietyBytes 6y ago
This. I remember my parents using this excuse all the time when I was a kid and it felt like such a cop-out. There is an answer for everything, even if it is "I don't know" or "nobody knows". I despise "because I said so" now and my wife and I don't use that phrase with our 5 year old, we always try to find the best answer to his endless list of questions.
- andi999 6y ago
  The only thing I worry about there (i worry a lot...), maybe this dispise in the child can trigger to find out what really goes on. (Cannot explain well, its like you need to ban swearwords otherwise they wouldnt have any emotional power)

biophysboy 6y ago

Kids really love silly. I think this is key to getting them to think. For example, with my very young niece, I would tell her nonsense stories, where there's a purple lion on the back of the turtle, etc. Keeping track of this weird story kept her gears spinning. Other times I would tease her and say that my name was her name, or that blue was purple. I would try to mimic her voice, or draw out syllables in a funny way. The net result is hilarious conversations where she is explaining very carefully why I am not her, and why colors are different. Basically, keeping things fun is useful for everyone, but even more for kids.

thorstenn 6y ago
I've found the same thing. It's a good way of keeping kids thinking while having fun. Furthermore I think it builds confidence in their own way of thinking and a natural scepticism to new information. Is the world playing tricks with me again or is it valid information?

sundarurfriend 6y ago

A similar question came up on the Less Wrong forums recently (more specifically focused on rational/critical thinking and scientific experimentation): https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yF6FLgWnRdKMYpm9g/rationality-for-kids https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yF6FLgWnRdKMYpm9g/rationalit...

tmaly 6y ago
this is the first I have heard of this forum. Are there any other posts you recommend on there?
- feydaykyn 6y ago
  You can read "Harry Potter and the Method of rationality", by the author, it's a fun rewrite of Harry potter, and it's instructive as a bonus! https://www.hpmor.com/ https://www.hpmor.com/
- sundarurfriend 6y ago
  (Assuming you mean posts relevant to the topic here:) Since I don't have kids, this isn't something I've looked out for, so all I was able to find were a post[1] linked from the comments on the above link, and then two posts linked from there [2] [3]. The Parenting tag [4] might also be of some interest to you. [1] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/wSEGsjDPtSWkAtXce/teaching-rationality-to-kids https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/wSEGsjDPtSWkAtXce/teaching-r... [2] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/NAfZr8tHe5fPZyab4/bed-time-stories-with-clear-concepts https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/NAfZr8tHe5fPZyab4/bed-time-s... [3] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZhoyWrqXRShbee4bS/raising-numerate-children https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZhoyWrqXRShbee4bS/raising-nu... [4] https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/parenting https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/parenting

deleted 6y ago

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jl6 6y ago

Mine are in that age range. Here’s what I try. * When they ask a question, I often say “I don’t know” in order to stimulate a discussion rather than just telling them the answer, and also to make it clear it’s OK not to know things. * As well as “I don’t know”, I might also ask them why they think something and whether they would like to do a test or experiment to help them find out. I’m not talking science experiments really - questions like “Why is your shirt always tucked in?” I would answer by trying to put some action on them, like saying “Why don’t you try some different styles and see which one is best and then I might change my mind?”. * I ask them questions about everyday situations even when I wouldn’t expect them to have any sensible answer (e.g. “what do you think I should write in this email to my boss?”), just to help broaden their understanding of the world and to demonstrate seeking advice and input from others. * I sometimes throw them out into the garden and tell them to do whatever they like. Make-believe, bash rocks, whatever. As long as they are forced to entertain themselves! * I let them watch YouTube on the TV (supervised), but I set the PIN as a solution to a puzzle. Turns out they like solving the puzzles as much as watching YouTube trash. * On the theme of trash content consumption, I don’t ban it but try to talk about it (aside from setting some reasonable time limits), guiding the conversation towards questioning why they would want to spend their time on that. And you know what, sometimes they happen upon something cool and I let them change my mind and we watch it together. * I tell lots of bedtime stories that I make up as we go along, letting them decide some things as we go. Strangely, eldest loves this but youngest is indifferent and would rather hear something familiar. * Recognizing that they are still young kids and still letting them be kids and not expecting them to be debate prodigies or other tiger parent nonsense.

MarcScott 6y ago
All great points, but I never say "I don't know" if I actually know an answer. I've always provided answers to my kids (both biological and students I've taught) if I know the answer. It often then stimulates further discussion and can lead to even more complex questions. As an example, my son often asks me scientific questions, and I provide the answers, and we talk a little around the subject. Eventually he stumped me though, when he asked if you were travelling at the speed of light would you cast a shadow. At that point I actually had to say "I don't know" and we ended up asking Twitter for an answer, and we both learned something. https://twitter.com/Coding2Learn/status/715247765547270144 https://twitter.com/Coding2Learn/status/715247765547270144

hosh 6y ago

The ideas I had been studying these days come from Carol Sandford. I am not sure how to summerize her work. In the case of developing a person’s (be they children, teens, or adult) capabilities, it comes in a couple ways: 1. First, linking intrinsic motivation with something meaningfully contributes to something outside of them. The catch? This is something the person chooses for themselves, based on what Sandford calls “essence”. Rewards and incentives are still external. Whatever is chosen may be beyond the child’s current capability. 2. A framework (a way of seeing the world and self) is given so that the child can grow his own capability in order to accomplish what he set out to contribute. Those things like observation, problem solving, critical thinking, systems thinking are developed by the child, and driven by the child’s intrinsic motivation. There is a lot more to that, and I am still learning and applying this myself. Something like this does not require a child to have genius level iq.

tmaly 6y ago
What books or resources from Carol Sandford have found most interesting?
- hosh 6y ago
  She has a lot of resources that sprawl all over, including numerous podcast interviews and blog posts. She had been doing this for 40 years now. If you ever heard of things like “regenerative growth” from the business world, it came from her. The biggest thing about what she teaches is a different way of viewing the world. How to identify the paradigm, epistemology, and frame, including your own patterns of thinking. The kind of problems she is addressing cannot be solved through the paradigm that generated those problems. I would say start with _Regenerative Life_ unless you intend to try applying this in business first. I think she has community somewhere specifically for educators and homeschoolers, but it is radically different because it is developed from a regenerative paradigm. If you are looking for a single resource that gives you a broad taste of many of the things she teaches, I’d say go with this podcast interview: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-regenerative-real-estate-podcast/id1500361677?i=1000489170016 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-regenerative-real-...
- 6y ago

Jun8 6y ago

To exercise pure thinking skills and empathy (as opposed to STEM, etc.) a great approach is to discuss philosophical/moral problems with the, treating their opinion seriously. A good book to use is: The Pig That Wants To Be Eaten”, but any example from daily life or movies can be used.

tmaly 6y ago
This is the first I have heard of The Pig That Wants To Be Eaten thank you for the recommendation. What did you like most about this book?
- Jun8 6y ago
  It lists many dilemmas from various areas of life explained in a simple way with examples, so you don't lose the kid's attention. Some of them are classical ethical problems so you can take your discussion as deeps you want.

Bandrsnatch 6y ago

The answer is to put them into situations where they have to think on their own. Also, lots of board games, word games, and role playing games. Always ask the child why something happened the way it did and then give them hints to think about. Read to them and ask them questions about what is happening in the book.

tmaly 6y ago
what are some of your favorite games?

rlonn 6y ago

I make up outrageous stuff all the time and will only come clean after some pressuring from the kids. Either it's worked wonders or my 6-year old is just a natural because she takes nothing for granted! Her teacher tried to show her that it's ok to make mistakes because it's a natural part of learning. She said "Look at your little brother; he can't walk yet but he's trying and trying and falling all the time. But eventually all those falls will have taught him to walk!" My daughter considered it, then looked her teacher in the eye and replied "we don't know that yet".

ramshanker 6y ago
That was awesome. She was being truthful, to say the least. :D

tlarkworthy 6y ago

My wife makes low effort stem activities for kids on youtube. Like dungeons and dragons-lite https://youtu.be/RHyAGwUOhkA https://youtu.be/RHyAGwUOhkA . It's more for 4-6 year olds but my children seem to be very strong on experiment design compared to other kids their age. We very much push a narrative of "Let's find out"

yboris 6y ago

I can highly recommend philosophy. I have not researched this area, but I am sure there are other organizations that encourage kids to become more reflective and to not jump to quick conclusions while thinking. Here's one: https://www.paradoxlab.org/ https://www.paradoxlab.org/ What's praise-worthy about this initiative is philosophy Ph.D. - level organizers: https://www.paradoxlab.org/our-team-1 https://www.paradoxlab.org/our-team-1

tmaly 6y ago
I agree about philosophy. I stumbled upon this book Big Ideas for Curious Minds: An Introduction to Philosophy when I was wandering the library on my lunch break last year.

ivankirigin 6y ago

Debate. Learning how to represent both sides of an argument is both academically rigorous and opens kids to the idea that there are other sides. You can do this at the dinner table, but also through formal debate clubs and classes. There are some doing this over zoom.

seg_lol 6y ago

I constantly tell them verifiable lies, but you need to make them cute, fun and solvable. No one wants to solve riddles that are so obtuse as to not even try. My six year old has the bullshit detector of a street smart teenager, not in all aspects, but in enough. I cried a little bit when she asked me, "how do you know that is true?"

jMyles 6y ago

I have found the randomizer fan mods of classic SNES games to be wonderful teachers and logic and problem solving. <proud papa incoming> My kid got to Ganon in Link to the Past Randomizer a week before his fifth birthday. I see him applying the same type of logical processing - and readiness to deal with randomness in the world - throughout his play and behavior.

lettergram 6y ago

Ironically enough, I actually wrote about just this topic... https://austingwalters.com/talk-to-yourself/ https://austingwalters.com/talk-to-yourself/ IMO it’s all about giving kids time alone, Not stimulated, to learn how to think about the voice in their head. A lot of what we do is try to inject more stimulus to teach, instead (and this is similar to the Montessori school of thought) they need some time to formulate a self image and learn to reflect and build an ego (self).

noobhacker 6y ago

A great way is to encourage them to question the rules that they have to follow, including your own. That's something they already do, and most enjoy doing. We just need to guide them to question the rules in a coherent manner. Besides critical thinking and argumentation, by letting them question your own rule, the meta skill you're demonstrating here is intellectual humility, IMO the most prized quality of a great thinker.

verisimilidude 6y ago

I don’t think one size fits all here. I have two kids in this age range and they respond to different approaches. My daughter is very creative and loves to spin up ideas and stories. When she asks me a question about the universe, I throw it back at her. “Daddy, why do flies have such thin wings? Why don’t they break?” “Well, what do YOU think?” She’ll then invent some explanations, we’ll have fun questioning them, and eventually look up some real answers. My son is much more execution-minded. He usually asks questions because he wants to understand how to build something. With Legos. In Minecraft. Whatever. He’s less interested in creative word play and more interested in creative building. Sometimes I can use the same tricks as with my daughter. “How do you think it works?” With him, I can often reframe the question and make him grapple with his goal at a higher level. “Sure, here’s how a gear box works. But what do you really want to accomplish here? Is there a better way to do this?” I haven’t read any books, this just seems to work for us. In either case, it’s critical to encourage kids to ask questions, and to teach them how to ask effective questions.

jkingsbery 6y ago

First, find something that excites them. If it doesn't excite them, they won't engage with it and they won't take any lessons from it. Physical learning seems to be important. Legos, science experiments, flying kites, etc., are all great ways for kids to learn about things in a concrete way. One science experiment I did with my oldest daughter was a "Will it sink or float?" experiment that is easy to do - just get a tub of water and random house hold items (coins; cereal; piece of bread; piece of paper; etc.). Reading to them, and stopping to ask them questions about the book. What's happening on this page? How do you think that character feels? What do you think is going to happen next? Show your kids that they can write stories. It doesn't have to be something fancy, just a bunch of pictures on regular printer paper, each with a sentence describing what's happening. If your kids are too young to write the words themselves, you can ask them what the page should say and write it for them. Let them be bored sometimes. When given nothing to do, kids are forced to figure something to do by themselves.

m-i-l 6y ago

At our school there is a lot of support for the "growth mindset". In summary, you praise the effort more than the results, believing anyone can do pretty much anything with enough effort (contrast with the "fixed mindset" where abilities are considered innate). Keeps children actively learning, and not resting on laurels or giving up because they think they aren't good enough. Seems to make sense - I remember reading about all the child geniuses that end up not amounting to much as adults, the theory being that they stopped putting effort in given they hadn't developed a connection between effort and outcome. Just reading up on the "growth mindset" now, and it seems there is some recent criticism of the idea, although that stems from inability to replicate the research results, not that there is a more widely preferred alternative.

tmaly 6y ago
I praise my daughter telling her she worked hard, that is why she got her results. I think that aspect of growth mindset is still valid. If you tell a kid they are smart, they will be in for a shock when someone smarter comes along.

kazinator 6y ago

Thinking requires forming hypotheses and ideas, which is an act of the imagination. Probably the most important thing is to help stimulate a child's imagination and support their curiosity. In a situation that requires thinking, encourage the child to come up with more than one idea. Praise every idea.

loughnane 6y ago

My kids are still young (11,7,4) so we'll see how it turns out, but we've got a strong culture of asking questions in our house. I do it so frequently that when we sit down at the table I often get asked "can we do questions". Sometimes they request specific questions (so they can show off what they've learned) and I lob them softballs (addition, geography, and other stuff they are learning about in schools often shows up). But sometimes I like to explore deeper questions that don't have clear answers. For example: - Why are some people rich and some people poor - What is justice? - What does it mean to be a good man? - Who should pay your teachers? and so on. A lot of the source topics are covered in classical books, particularly Plato's Republic (a dialogue where they go about conjuring up an ideal society), but I find that the kids will quickly take it in their own direction. Honestly it's one of the more enjoyable things I get to do with the kids.

qwert12345887 6y ago

To add on how do you teach adults to have a curious mind.

tracer4201 6y ago

I grew up in a very poor household where the emphasis was on getting good grades so you could go on to get a wel paying “job”. Please don’t do that to your kids. If you have the means (not everyone does), check in with them on homework, for example. See what they’re learning about — and ask them questions about it. Show curiosity and interest. In my opinion, that is a good way to jump start your child’s curiosity. Help them understand the significance of what they’re learning - if you’re able to. Ask them to question things. I grew up in a household where I took textbooks and papers as all being fundamentally correct and true, and that’s not always the case. Skepticism is a good thing. Encourage your children not to take things at face value but dive a bit deeper to understand if something really makes sense or if it’s even true.

mleonard 6y ago

Two quick book recommendations: Learning how to learn for teens Getting things done (gtd) for teens

supernihil 6y ago

I have had a kind of struggle to bring up kids while being in the skizophrenic spectrum And providing the income as a dev. But my approach has always been: 1. Read every day and spice it up with my own freaky tales of spiderman, witches, jungles etc. My dad used to do the same and my kids like it a lot. 2. Be outside in all weather and all times. Nothing hits jumping in pools of water with or without boots. We dig a lot in a nearby field of dirt, making caves and talking about materials etc. Also we like fishing crabs and making bonfires year around. Being outside is the only place i am at piece with my sickened head so it also means they get to spend time with "not stressed dad" 3. We draw a lot, have paper and drawing stuff everywhere. We hang them up and talk about them. 4. Recently we have begun to make simple "turtle drawing" programs together to show them how fun it is that if you can instruct a computer to draw one tree you can also tell it to draw 100 different trees of different size and colors. 5. We talk a lot and we never "dumb it down" instead i spin the history stories or the science stuff i like to talk baout so they get intrugued . The outcome: they are happy. I value their happyness as its sadly not the feeling i wear. My sadness is not invisible to them but the time we spend together and my openness about it has not yet had a negative impact on them. They are also very socially engaged and thoughtful which i hope is as well connected to the many different types of people, from all layers of society, that they see me talking to.

Lammy 6y ago

Awareness of one's self is a must before thinking about anything else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-enquiry_(Ramana_Maharshi) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-enquiry_(Ramana_Maharshi)

mixmastamyk 6y ago

A worthy goal. It is important to realize that kid's brains are still developing, so it's important to realize that and not get frustrated if they cannot yet perform at a more advanced level. I forget this sometimes myself so am mentioning it here.

kangnkodos 6y ago

Listen to them, and follow where they lead you.

tmaly 6y ago
Listening is the key. So often we are tempted to dismiss what they say or to not place much thought on it. How did they come up with their statement?

lubujackson 6y ago

A lot of people have mentioned answering questions. We like to answer what we can and aren't afraid to say "I don't know, let's look it up." Then we read Wikipedia or watch a YouTube or talk about it. So the first thing is not to squash their curiosity. The second is to train them how to find answers. Right now, we find the answers with our 6 year old but soon he will be able to do it himself. Something people haven't really mentioned, and is hard to do as a parent, is to get out of the way. Give them a problem or a tool and let them get bored. Boredom is the scarcest resource we have nowadays and it is critical to let kids be bored so their natural curiosity can take over and lead them to do things that they want to do, not what they are told.

stakkur 6y ago

Learning 'how to think' isn't exactly a goal for 6-8-year-olds. At this age, the focus should be on integration--learning to get the mind and body (and will or spirit) working together, being in the world. 'Thinking' isn't really the focus. Ages 6-8 also involve two separate developmental periods: a six-year-old is in a much different place than an 8-year-old. I like how Waldorf approaches this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education#Developmental_approach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education#Developmenta... Notice that 'thinking' isn't really a focus with Waldorf until around age 14.

tmaly 6y ago
I am not too familiar with the Waldorf system. If we were to invert the question, How to teach kids not to think? What would the answer look like?

kirillzubovsky 6y ago

We try to encourage our kids to think/wonder at every opportunity. When they ask a question, instead of giving them an answer, we just ask what they think first. Often that leads to a rather wild/creative prediction, something that comes out of their understanding of thew world, which although limited, is beautiful. We explore forward from there. Generally, it helps to put kids in charge of their own life in whichever capacity they can at this point in time. If they know they can put on their own shoes, clean their own dishes, make their own breakfast ...etc, they also learn implicitly that they have full ownership of their thinking too. To be honest, it's hard because very often it's easier for us, the parents, to just have the kids do what we need them to do, rather than what kids want to do, or think is the best way to do it. But, it's a tradeoff. When they get more freedom, they engulf in it. My 2c.

nomoreusernames 6y ago

you dont teach them how to think, you give them space to make mistakes and learn from them, and when they lack a quality that they need to solve a problem, you wait until they exhaust themselves and then you give them a hint (not a direct one, but one bound to the domain they need to learn). you keep doing this. and you tell them to question their selves. and through experimentation you tech them not to take 'failure' as failure but to understand the bigger picture and that they are just confirming through failure. they are working on a problem. and they should never associate their self image with the thing they are studying. and tech them to study all sides to get the bigger picture. not just individual pieces. and have fun. if the kids not smiling or looking excited/anxious about the results. then something is not right. let them lead the course. you are just like a good psychologist. supposed to sit there and help them not to do stupid and dangerous stuff. but ultimately you let them self develop and grow at their own pace in their own way.

tubularhells 6y ago

Strategy board games, not just go and chess but more modern ones like Pipeline, Nevsky, Lisboa to mention 3 radically different games) will both engage the mind of young kids and allow for them to build mental maps at their own pace. look for medium-heavy boardgames on boargamegeek for you to play with your kids, and the two of you can develop the kids taste and cognitive abilities at the same time while having fun. I do not recmend the above games to 6-8yo, buy something like Azul Summer Pavilion might be up their alley.

tmaly 6y ago
Have you ever heard of this game called Cat Crimes?
- tubularhells 6y ago
  No, and it doesn't seem have a BGG page either.

ibobev 6y ago

Isn't learning basic math and programming a good start for developing logical thinking? There are programming languages like Scratch[1] intended for teaching programming to very young kids. I never try it, but maybe it is a good start for developing logical thinking in young age. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_%28programming_language%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_%28programming_languag...

tmaly 6y ago
I do teach Scratch, it allows for more creativity than other platforms. However, there are still some very abstract concepts that kids do not really get till they reach the 4th and 5th grades. 1st graders really struggled with it in my experience. If you have a parent with programming experience it is usually not an issue.