6 ms·

I wonder how long before these companies pull out of Seattle, or Washington entirely. If it's just Seattle, will they just geofence the city and not allow ride

I wonder how long before these companies pull out of Seattle, or Washington entirely. If it's just Seattle, will they just geofence the city and not allow rides to originate or terminate there? What happens if a driver is transiting the city limits, but isn't within for a full hour - does the minimum wage get prorated, or what?

viraptor 6y ago
Why would they pull out? Taxis existed before Uber and others. Either a) Uber at scale can't compete with local taxi service which will return pretty quickly, (so Uber would die anyway in a long run) or b) they will be completely fine with a few tweaks around scheduling / number is drivers.
- wgerard 6y ago
  > Taxis existed before Uber and others. To be fair, taxi service in seattle was quite awful during the pre-uber times. It was usually best to pretend they didn't exist unless you were at a location they congregated frequently (the airport, for example). Hopefully, the prompt and transparent service that came with Uber is here to stay even if the company itself isn't.
  - kenjackson 6y ago
    This is true about pre-Uber taxi service. But it has improved largely due to Uber competition. It would suck to lose Uber and Lyft, but I don’t think it would be long for a competing local service to pop up.
    - dantheman 6y ago
      Need to make sure taxis have to pay this minimum wage too... let's see how that works.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  And/or raise prices on consumers who are using the drivers who have to be paid more. That seems like a component of any solution to the issue.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    Which seems fine. A service that isn't paying the minimum wage isn't competing fairly. Edit: Typo. If you aren't paying a minimum wage, you ARE NOT competing fairly.
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      > A service that isn't paying the minimum wage is competing fairly. Did you mean to say it this way? Presumably "fairly" would be abiding by the same rules as the competition, including paying a minimum wage?
      - Pfhreak 6y ago
        Whoops, fixed!
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      As long as Ubers and taxis are subject to the same rules, I'm fine with it. If this minimum wage requirement does not also apply to taxi drivers, then it's very suspect to me.
criddell 6y ago
When they pulled out of Austin it didn't take long before a bunch of replacements pop up. This isn't a tough problem to solve anymore.
- notrealpersonq 6y ago
  The replacements they had in Austin never filled those shoes unfortunately. During SXSW traffic spiked and all the replacements were crashing and people were getting "stranded" with no rides.
  - criddell 6y ago
    Sure, but since then things have kept improving. From a technology point of view it's only going to get easier and easier to run a ride-sharing service.
    - Dirlewanger 6y ago
      Is that why several of the Austin replacements have now folded since Uber/Lyft have been back for a while?
      - criddell 6y ago
        No, it's not.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - ChrisKingWebDev 6y ago
    I've had Uber crash during traffic spikes, and was "stranded" for a few hours while I waiting for demand to calm down.
  - asdff 6y ago
    Have you tried using Uber or Lyft during any large event? They are just as much of a clusterfuck. Either the app crashes due to so many phones nearby clogging the network, or drivers drop the ball, either cancelling on you or accepting your ride from 30 minutes out, trapping you for fear of getting a bad rider rating for too many cancelled rides. Getting into the wrong rideshare is also surprisingly common and concerning, especially when these large events involve a lot of drinking. I usually resort to walking a mile, maybe more, from the event before I attempt to call up a rideshare.
geofft 6y ago
I suspect the market will solve this problem. There's a pretty neat growth hack that you can do that doesn't scale (http://paulgraham.com/ds.html http://paulgraham.com/ds.html) and therefore lets you out-compete the incumbents like Uber and Lyft: pay your drivers minimum wage. Once you're established and profitable you can keep doing it.
Nbox9 6y ago
Everyone predicts doom and gloom when Seattle enacts a progressive policy. Seattle’s economy is still doing well. I view this as essentially fixing a loop hole around their existing minimum wage laws.
- dantheman 6y ago
  These policies don't have an effect in a day - it takes time. People need to move - if Amazon wanted to move it would take them years just to build a new campus; let a lone try to transfer employees. People are sticky to a location, so the city can extract more and more from them until they eventually decide to leave. It will slow growth as people choose not set up there; it will make the economy less flexible as people have few choices. These policies will destroy wealth and will hurt those who currently do these jobs. Remember the people doing these jobs are doing them because they're the best option available to them - this include far more than just the wage. It's going to be harder and harder to find jobs for low skilled workers in Seattle.
  - Retric 6y ago
    Seattle’s median household income is $93,500 (2018) and it has a population of 744,955. Their clearly doing something correctly.
    - devmunchies 6y ago
      you can barely afford to live there if you make less, so of course the median is high. I hated living in Seattle, loved the rest of Washington though.
    - anoxor 6y ago
      If you don't make solid money, you move out of the city because it is too expensive. The minimum wage law is less than 2 years old, and it's possible for Seattle to continue it's boom momentum despite recently policy. If the policy is bad, it isn't hurting the tech workers, it's hurting the smaller businesses and people who work there. When a burger and beer is $25, people eat out less and businesses have fewer $16 an hour people on staff.

viraptor 6y ago

Why would they pull out? Taxis existed before Uber and others. Either a) Uber at scale can't compete with local taxi service which will return pretty quickly, (so Uber would die anyway in a long run) or b) they will be completely fine with a few tweaks around scheduling / number is drivers.

wgerard 6y ago
> Taxis existed before Uber and others. To be fair, taxi service in seattle was quite awful during the pre-uber times. It was usually best to pretend they didn't exist unless you were at a location they congregated frequently (the airport, for example). Hopefully, the prompt and transparent service that came with Uber is here to stay even if the company itself isn't.
- kenjackson 6y ago
  This is true about pre-Uber taxi service. But it has improved largely due to Uber competition. It would suck to lose Uber and Lyft, but I don’t think it would be long for a competing local service to pop up.
  - dantheman 6y ago
    Need to make sure taxis have to pay this minimum wage too... let's see how that works.
asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
And/or raise prices on consumers who are using the drivers who have to be paid more. That seems like a component of any solution to the issue.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Which seems fine. A service that isn't paying the minimum wage isn't competing fairly. Edit: Typo. If you aren't paying a minimum wage, you ARE NOT competing fairly.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    > A service that isn't paying the minimum wage is competing fairly. Did you mean to say it this way? Presumably "fairly" would be abiding by the same rules as the competition, including paying a minimum wage?
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      Whoops, fixed!
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
    As long as Ubers and taxis are subject to the same rules, I'm fine with it. If this minimum wage requirement does not also apply to taxi drivers, then it's very suspect to me.

criddell 6y ago

When they pulled out of Austin it didn't take long before a bunch of replacements pop up. This isn't a tough problem to solve anymore.

notrealpersonq 6y ago
The replacements they had in Austin never filled those shoes unfortunately. During SXSW traffic spiked and all the replacements were crashing and people were getting "stranded" with no rides.
- criddell 6y ago
  Sure, but since then things have kept improving. From a technology point of view it's only going to get easier and easier to run a ride-sharing service.
  - Dirlewanger 6y ago
    Is that why several of the Austin replacements have now folded since Uber/Lyft have been back for a while?
    - criddell 6y ago
      No, it's not.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- ChrisKingWebDev 6y ago
  I've had Uber crash during traffic spikes, and was "stranded" for a few hours while I waiting for demand to calm down.
- asdff 6y ago
  Have you tried using Uber or Lyft during any large event? They are just as much of a clusterfuck. Either the app crashes due to so many phones nearby clogging the network, or drivers drop the ball, either cancelling on you or accepting your ride from 30 minutes out, trapping you for fear of getting a bad rider rating for too many cancelled rides. Getting into the wrong rideshare is also surprisingly common and concerning, especially when these large events involve a lot of drinking. I usually resort to walking a mile, maybe more, from the event before I attempt to call up a rideshare.

geofft 6y ago

I suspect the market will solve this problem. There's a pretty neat growth hack that you can do that doesn't scale (http://paulgraham.com/ds.html http://paulgraham.com/ds.html) and therefore lets you out-compete the incumbents like Uber and Lyft: pay your drivers minimum wage. Once you're established and profitable you can keep doing it.

Nbox9 6y ago

Everyone predicts doom and gloom when Seattle enacts a progressive policy. Seattle’s economy is still doing well. I view this as essentially fixing a loop hole around their existing minimum wage laws.

dantheman 6y ago
These policies don't have an effect in a day - it takes time. People need to move - if Amazon wanted to move it would take them years just to build a new campus; let a lone try to transfer employees. People are sticky to a location, so the city can extract more and more from them until they eventually decide to leave. It will slow growth as people choose not set up there; it will make the economy less flexible as people have few choices. These policies will destroy wealth and will hurt those who currently do these jobs. Remember the people doing these jobs are doing them because they're the best option available to them - this include far more than just the wage. It's going to be harder and harder to find jobs for low skilled workers in Seattle.
- Retric 6y ago
  Seattle’s median household income is $93,500 (2018) and it has a population of 744,955. Their clearly doing something correctly.
  - devmunchies 6y ago
    you can barely afford to live there if you make less, so of course the median is high. I hated living in Seattle, loved the rest of Washington though.
  - anoxor 6y ago
    If you don't make solid money, you move out of the city because it is too expensive. The minimum wage law is less than 2 years old, and it's possible for Seattle to continue it's boom momentum despite recently policy. If the policy is bad, it isn't hurting the tech workers, it's hurting the smaller businesses and people who work there. When a burger and beer is $25, people eat out less and businesses have fewer $16 an hour people on staff.