6 ms·

Also, not accepting that people consider Trump a better presidental candidate is bigotry exactly, by definition from the dictionary. The fun fact about the wor

Also, not accepting that people consider Trump a better presidental candidate is bigotry exactly, by definition from the dictionary. The fun fact about the word "bigotry" is that people who use "bigotry" as insults are very often bigots themselves.

colinmhayes 6y ago
Cool, let's rephrase. If you want respect don't admit to being prejudiced against the way people are born. Being prejudiced against choices people make is completely fine.
- lightgreen 6y ago
  > If you want respect I'm sorry for not expressing clearly. People want freedom more than respect. In particular, freedom to express support of Trump. > If you want respect don't admit to being prejudiced against the way people are born. I'm sorry, I don't see a connection between your comment and parent comment.
  - colinmhayes 6y ago
    People in sv are absolutely free to express support for Trump.
    - lightgreen 6y ago
      They will quickly lose their jobs. It is somewhat similar (but to lesser degree of course) to China: there’s no law prohibiting talking about Tiananmen Square, but you better not do it.
      - colinmhayes 6y ago
        Freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences. I'm as free to call you an idiot and boycott you as you are to say idiotic things. It actually is illegal to talk about tianamen square in china. You'll be arrested.
        lightgreen 6y ago
        This catchy phrase is catch 22. Negative consequences of freedom mean there is no freedom.
        debaserab2 6y ago
        You aren't free unless you can say and do things without consequence? What?
        ryandrake 6y ago
        Frame it in something not political: Imagine there was some taboo or social norm that said the only acceptable favorite color was green. If you publicly said your favorite color was something other than green, you should expect to be fired from your job, your family go hungry, and other similar consequences. Are you really free to have any favorite color you want? Technically, yes. Practically, do you have that freedom?
        debaserab2 6y ago
        I don’t think we’re talking about someone making neutral statements about their favorite color.
        nobody9999 6y ago
        > This catchy phrase is catch 22. Negative consequences of freedom mean there is no freedom. That's something of a misnomer. In the case where the government (as in China) will visit consequences upon you for your speech limits freedom. But others using their speech to express their displeasure with your speech does not. Do you see how that works? If your peers disagree with you and express that, it's not limiting freedom, it's giving the same freedom to everyone. I do believe that it's inappropriate (note the word I use here, as it has a specific meaning and implication) to target someone's professional status for a real or perceived disagreement (assuming that those disagreements are not relevant to the target's professional duties). That doesn't make it illegal, just petty, vindictive and in bad faith. None of which limits anyone's freedom to express themselves. There's a big difference between legality and social norms. Just because it's legal to do something, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
- AI_WAIFU 6y ago
  Assuming that everyone who prefers Trump over Biden is prejudiced against the way people are born, is still bigotry. Not treating people with respect, regardless of their views, is also bigotry.
  - colinmhayes 6y ago
    Again, I'm fine with being bigoted against peoples choices. If you make bad choices you can be damn sure I'll won't respect you. I can't accept being bigoted against the way someone is born.
    - AI_WAIFU 6y ago
      >Again, I'm fine with being bigoted against peoples choices. Then I'm sorry but that makes you a bigot, please don't spread your bigotry to others by making broad generalizations about entire groups or unilaterally deciding and trying to build consensus that their decisions are "bad".
    - lightgreen 6y ago
      > I'll won't respect you Nobody cares about your respect. But please don't bully those who disagree with you.
    - Lammy 6y ago
      > If you make bad choices you can be damn sure I'll won't respect you. I try to respect people enough to not tell them what "good" or "bad" must mean for them.
- luckylion 6y ago
  > Being prejudiced against choices people make is completely fine. Wait until you read about the whole "free will" issue.
  - colinmhayes 6y ago
    I fully accept that free will isn't real. I also fully accept my ability to change the utility maximizing decision by not respecting people who don't respect others because of the way they were born.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      And yet ... they never had a choice in the matter, so you're doing what you seek to destroy.
      - colinmhayes 6y ago
        I use "choice" in its commonly accepted definition for simplicity. We can get into semantics if you'd like. Determinism doesn't mean it's impossible to change the "choices" people make. It means it's impossible to change your own utility functions which cause the "choices". Society can still effect peoples "choices" by punishing them because that will change the outcome of the pre-determined utility function. Incentives are everything.
mola 6y ago
Because Trump supported white supremacists? Because Trump has a proven history of treating women like objects? And these are not allowed ps of the tongue, these were systematically repeated sentiments. If you choose to support him, you support these things as well.
- meekmind 6y ago
  > Because Trump supported white supremacists This is a lie. 100% debunked lie. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-... As far as women, framing Trump as a big meanie who says mean words totally ignores what he and his administration have actually done for women in the aggregate. > Our nation has created more than 7 million jobs since the 2016 election — and women have filled over half, or more than 4 million, of those vacancies > The unemployment rate for women stands at a minuscule 3.2%, and last September reached its lowest level since 1953 > And as the unemployment rate has declined, so too did the number of women in poverty, decreasing by 1.5 million in President Trump’s first two years in office https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/02/29/has_trump_helped_women_let_me_count_the_ways.html# https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/02/29/has_tr...! The victims of sex trafficking are primarily women and children > Worldwide, there are 40.3 million victims, with 75% women and girls and 25% children, according to The International Labour Organization > Trump signed the Abolish Human Trafficking Act, which strengthens programs supporting survivors and resources for combating modern slavery > [Trump] signed the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act which tightens criteria for whether countries are meeting standards for eliminating trafficking > Trump also signed the Frederick Douglass Trafficking Victims Prevention and Protection Reauthorization Act, authorizing $430 million to fight sex and labor trafficking, as well as the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, which establishes “new prevention, prosecution, and collaboration initiative to bring human traffickers to justice.” > since President Trump took office in January 2017, there have been nearly 12,470 arrests for human trafficking, according to arrest records compiled by investigative journalist Corey Lynn, and over 9130 victims rescued. Compare that to the 525 arrested in Barack Obama’s last year in office http://www.dienekesplace.com/2019/07/28/the-number-of-human-traffickers-arrested-since-donald-trump-has-taken-office-has-skyrocketed/ http://www.dienekesplace.com/2019/07/28/the-number-of-human-...

colinmhayes 6y ago

Cool, let's rephrase. If you want respect don't admit to being prejudiced against the way people are born. Being prejudiced against choices people make is completely fine.

lightgreen 6y ago
> If you want respect I'm sorry for not expressing clearly. People want freedom more than respect. In particular, freedom to express support of Trump. > If you want respect don't admit to being prejudiced against the way people are born. I'm sorry, I don't see a connection between your comment and parent comment.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  People in sv are absolutely free to express support for Trump.
  - lightgreen 6y ago
    They will quickly lose their jobs. It is somewhat similar (but to lesser degree of course) to China: there’s no law prohibiting talking about Tiananmen Square, but you better not do it.
    - colinmhayes 6y ago
      Freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences. I'm as free to call you an idiot and boycott you as you are to say idiotic things. It actually is illegal to talk about tianamen square in china. You'll be arrested.
      - lightgreen 6y ago
        This catchy phrase is catch 22. Negative consequences of freedom mean there is no freedom.
        debaserab2 6y ago
        You aren't free unless you can say and do things without consequence? What?
        ryandrake 6y ago
        Frame it in something not political: Imagine there was some taboo or social norm that said the only acceptable favorite color was green. If you publicly said your favorite color was something other than green, you should expect to be fired from your job, your family go hungry, and other similar consequences. Are you really free to have any favorite color you want? Technically, yes. Practically, do you have that freedom?
        debaserab2 6y ago
        I don’t think we’re talking about someone making neutral statements about their favorite color.
        nobody9999 6y ago
        > This catchy phrase is catch 22. Negative consequences of freedom mean there is no freedom. That's something of a misnomer. In the case where the government (as in China) will visit consequences upon you for your speech limits freedom. But others using their speech to express their displeasure with your speech does not. Do you see how that works? If your peers disagree with you and express that, it's not limiting freedom, it's giving the same freedom to everyone. I do believe that it's inappropriate (note the word I use here, as it has a specific meaning and implication) to target someone's professional status for a real or perceived disagreement (assuming that those disagreements are not relevant to the target's professional duties). That doesn't make it illegal, just petty, vindictive and in bad faith. None of which limits anyone's freedom to express themselves. There's a big difference between legality and social norms. Just because it's legal to do something, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
AI_WAIFU 6y ago
Assuming that everyone who prefers Trump over Biden is prejudiced against the way people are born, is still bigotry. Not treating people with respect, regardless of their views, is also bigotry.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  Again, I'm fine with being bigoted against peoples choices. If you make bad choices you can be damn sure I'll won't respect you. I can't accept being bigoted against the way someone is born.
  - AI_WAIFU 6y ago
    >Again, I'm fine with being bigoted against peoples choices. Then I'm sorry but that makes you a bigot, please don't spread your bigotry to others by making broad generalizations about entire groups or unilaterally deciding and trying to build consensus that their decisions are "bad".
  - lightgreen 6y ago
    > I'll won't respect you Nobody cares about your respect. But please don't bully those who disagree with you.
  - Lammy 6y ago
    > If you make bad choices you can be damn sure I'll won't respect you. I try to respect people enough to not tell them what "good" or "bad" must mean for them.
luckylion 6y ago
> Being prejudiced against choices people make is completely fine. Wait until you read about the whole "free will" issue.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  I fully accept that free will isn't real. I also fully accept my ability to change the utility maximizing decision by not respecting people who don't respect others because of the way they were born.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    And yet ... they never had a choice in the matter, so you're doing what you seek to destroy.
    - colinmhayes 6y ago
      I use "choice" in its commonly accepted definition for simplicity. We can get into semantics if you'd like. Determinism doesn't mean it's impossible to change the "choices" people make. It means it's impossible to change your own utility functions which cause the "choices". Society can still effect peoples "choices" by punishing them because that will change the outcome of the pre-determined utility function. Incentives are everything.

mola 6y ago

Because Trump supported white supremacists? Because Trump has a proven history of treating women like objects? And these are not allowed ps of the tongue, these were systematically repeated sentiments. If you choose to support him, you support these things as well.

meekmind 6y ago
> Because Trump supported white supremacists This is a lie. 100% debunked lie. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-... As far as women, framing Trump as a big meanie who says mean words totally ignores what he and his administration have actually done for women in the aggregate. > Our nation has created more than 7 million jobs since the 2016 election — and women have filled over half, or more than 4 million, of those vacancies > The unemployment rate for women stands at a minuscule 3.2%, and last September reached its lowest level since 1953 > And as the unemployment rate has declined, so too did the number of women in poverty, decreasing by 1.5 million in President Trump’s first two years in office https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/02/29/has_trump_helped_women_let_me_count_the_ways.html# https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/02/29/has_tr...! The victims of sex trafficking are primarily women and children > Worldwide, there are 40.3 million victims, with 75% women and girls and 25% children, according to The International Labour Organization > Trump signed the Abolish Human Trafficking Act, which strengthens programs supporting survivors and resources for combating modern slavery > [Trump] signed the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act which tightens criteria for whether countries are meeting standards for eliminating trafficking > Trump also signed the Frederick Douglass Trafficking Victims Prevention and Protection Reauthorization Act, authorizing $430 million to fight sex and labor trafficking, as well as the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, which establishes “new prevention, prosecution, and collaboration initiative to bring human traffickers to justice.” > since President Trump took office in January 2017, there have been nearly 12,470 arrests for human trafficking, according to arrest records compiled by investigative journalist Corey Lynn, and over 9130 victims rescued. Compare that to the 525 arrested in Barack Obama’s last year in office http://www.dienekesplace.com/2019/07/28/the-number-of-human-traffickers-arrested-since-donald-trump-has-taken-office-has-skyrocketed/ http://www.dienekesplace.com/2019/07/28/the-number-of-human-...