4 ms·

The relationship between Covid-19 and other seasonal coronaviruses is unclear at best. In particular, this study is contradicted by evidence of long-lasting im

The relationship between Covid-19 and other seasonal coronaviruses is unclear at best. In particular, this study is contradicted by evidence of long-lasting immunity for SARS-Cov-1 survivors. So far, evidence of reinfection with Covid-19 seems limited to a handful of people. However, if reinfection becomes more prevalent (say next year), then we're really up a creek without a paddle. At that point, the only viable strategies left will be global eradication, or repeat vaccination akin to the seasonal flu.

wukerplank 6y ago
As a layman: How is immunity defined? The German virologist Drosten said in an interview (a while ago, sorry, no source) that it is expected that survivors will stop producing white blood cells at some point. The next time they get infected with COVID-19 they will develop symptoms of a common cold and get rid of the virus much quicker.
- eightysixfour 6y ago
  One of the known reinfections got it worse the second time, see the thread here: https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1299342270177726464?lang=en https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/12993422701777264...
  - soperj 6y ago
    25 year old patient, sequenced genomes of virus differed significantly. Looks like a real re-infection.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  Immunity is complex. Every article tries to reduce it to antibodies, but antibodies are just one aspect of "memory." Our immune systems have an inane immune system, an adaptive immune system, a Complement Protein system[0], with hundreds of thousands of proteins that have evolved over millions of years to change shape and form to grab onto and destroy all kinds of bacteria and viruses in the most random/crazy ways possible (It's a lot like microservices, except random monkeys throwing code at a wall and eventually making things work over millions of years), and many many other pieces. Every vaccine we have today is either based off an inactivated virus or an attenuated virus (a virus moved though hosts to be less lethal to humans). The first vaccine used HorsePox/CowPox to create immune memory for SmallPox by Jenner, 185 years ago. A lot of these newer vaccines like mNRA vaccines, are not vaccines at all. They attempt to generate antibodies specifically. But there could be hundreds of other interactions that occur when a virus enters your system, that can help build immunity. There's a lot we simply do not know about. Attempts at SARS1/MERS vaccines led to Imunopathic responses and Immune Enhancement Syndrome. Vaccines are some carefully engineered, invention of science. They came about due to horrific diseases, where doctors tested and experimented on human beings because thousands were going blind, getting paralyzed or dying. The rush to create a vaccine, with methods that have never successfully created a vaccine before, should be of great concern to everyone. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSypUV6QUNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSypUV6QUNw
catdog 6y ago
> So far, evidence of reinfection with Covid-19 seems limited to a handful of people. Is there even enough evidence in those few cases that it was really a reinfection? RT-PCR based tests are good but are not perfect after all, false positives happen.
- est31 6y ago
  There is this person who had two genetically different COVID-19 strains (but presumably the same serotype, there's only one serotype of COVID-19 known) for the first and second infection, confirmed by whole genome sequencing: https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciaa1275 https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciaa1275
- djsumdog 6y ago
  And also, no one is reporting the number of test iterations that are being used for each positive result. There are people with very low viral loads, who are not contagious, that test positive. If you run a RT-PCT enough times, you can generate a match in many cases where someone has never had the virus. The inventor of the PCR (who passed away years ago) took great issue with the way PCR was being using incorrectly with HIV testing. Even today with HIV, PCR is often reported with a viral load number, so doctors can tell what amount of antiviral drugs are needed for patients, and to help identify long-term non-progressives (rare) who may not need drugs at all.
pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Could you clarify: are you saying "long-lasting immunity for SARS-Cov-1 survivors" against SARS, or immunity against Covid19? I assume the former, but it's ambiguous to me, sorry.
- ComputerGuru 6y ago
  Largely the first but also a smattering of the second (in the form of less serious cases in people previously exposed to SARS-COV-1), from the one (iirc) study that looked into this.

wukerplank 6y ago

As a layman: How is immunity defined? The German virologist Drosten said in an interview (a while ago, sorry, no source) that it is expected that survivors will stop producing white blood cells at some point. The next time they get infected with COVID-19 they will develop symptoms of a common cold and get rid of the virus much quicker.

eightysixfour 6y ago
One of the known reinfections got it worse the second time, see the thread here: https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1299342270177726464?lang=en https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/12993422701777264...
- soperj 6y ago
  25 year old patient, sequenced genomes of virus differed significantly. Looks like a real re-infection.
djsumdog 6y ago
Immunity is complex. Every article tries to reduce it to antibodies, but antibodies are just one aspect of "memory." Our immune systems have an inane immune system, an adaptive immune system, a Complement Protein system[0], with hundreds of thousands of proteins that have evolved over millions of years to change shape and form to grab onto and destroy all kinds of bacteria and viruses in the most random/crazy ways possible (It's a lot like microservices, except random monkeys throwing code at a wall and eventually making things work over millions of years), and many many other pieces. Every vaccine we have today is either based off an inactivated virus or an attenuated virus (a virus moved though hosts to be less lethal to humans). The first vaccine used HorsePox/CowPox to create immune memory for SmallPox by Jenner, 185 years ago. A lot of these newer vaccines like mNRA vaccines, are not vaccines at all. They attempt to generate antibodies specifically. But there could be hundreds of other interactions that occur when a virus enters your system, that can help build immunity. There's a lot we simply do not know about. Attempts at SARS1/MERS vaccines led to Imunopathic responses and Immune Enhancement Syndrome. Vaccines are some carefully engineered, invention of science. They came about due to horrific diseases, where doctors tested and experimented on human beings because thousands were going blind, getting paralyzed or dying. The rush to create a vaccine, with methods that have never successfully created a vaccine before, should be of great concern to everyone. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSypUV6QUNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSypUV6QUNw

catdog 6y ago

> So far, evidence of reinfection with Covid-19 seems limited to a handful of people. Is there even enough evidence in those few cases that it was really a reinfection? RT-PCR based tests are good but are not perfect after all, false positives happen.

est31 6y ago
There is this person who had two genetically different COVID-19 strains (but presumably the same serotype, there's only one serotype of COVID-19 known) for the first and second infection, confirmed by whole genome sequencing: https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciaa1275 https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciaa1275
djsumdog 6y ago
And also, no one is reporting the number of test iterations that are being used for each positive result. There are people with very low viral loads, who are not contagious, that test positive. If you run a RT-PCT enough times, you can generate a match in many cases where someone has never had the virus. The inventor of the PCR (who passed away years ago) took great issue with the way PCR was being using incorrectly with HIV testing. Even today with HIV, PCR is often reported with a viral load number, so doctors can tell what amount of antiviral drugs are needed for patients, and to help identify long-term non-progressives (rare) who may not need drugs at all.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago

Could you clarify: are you saying "long-lasting immunity for SARS-Cov-1 survivors" against SARS, or immunity against Covid19? I assume the former, but it's ambiguous to me, sorry.

ComputerGuru 6y ago
Largely the first but also a smattering of the second (in the form of less serious cases in people previously exposed to SARS-COV-1), from the one (iirc) study that looked into this.