5 ms·

Well it's more like "people hate ads, but next time they buy a new TV, the ads will make our TV $10 cheaper than the other guy and they'll buy it anyway" It's

Well it's more like "people hate ads, but next time they buy a new TV, the ads will make our TV $10 cheaper than the other guy and they'll buy it anyway" It's the same thing in the airline industry - people will complain all day long about legroom and being treated as cattle, but the next time they buy a ticket they vote with their wallets when they sort the flight list by price and choose the cheapest option.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
I don't know why this comment hasn't been upvoted more since it's absolutely spot on.
swiley 6y ago
I'll bet the difference that my $50 projector was way cheaper than whatever TV this is and it doesn't have ads (although it also doesn't seem to have working DPMS but that might just be my Xorg config.)
defnotashton2 6y ago
Airlines are controlled and limited by regulation to where its no longer "free" and you can't vote with your dollar cause you are a guarantee. There are very few airlines that offer more legroom and even then it's not comfortable. Same with telecoms. TV industry lacks competition in this regard as well but largely due to the centralized manufacturing. I also blame modern ip law as many of these companies have rediculous protections increasing cost of entry.
- selectodude 6y ago
  >There are very few airlines that offer more legroom and even then it's not comfortable. American tried. American failed. Nobody was willing to pay more. https://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/04/business/american-air-to-put-more-room-in-coach.html https://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/04/business/american-air-to-...
  - derekp7 6y ago
    Isn't that because most of the people that fly multiple times a year aren't the ones paying for the tickets? Instead their company has policies on getting the cheaper flights. And people that fly for a vacation once every few years, they may not have enough experience flying to realize the benefit (or, if they do want a better experience, they go all the way to first class).
    - alistairSH 6y ago
      I don't if that's true for most air travel, but it's definitely true for my business travel. Corporate policy is the ticket has to be within a reasonable range of price (average price +/- some amount, not sure exactly). This means I can usually select between 2-3 airlines, 2 airports, and plenty of times, but I am always limited to basic economy without prior approval (which has been granted for international travel and if I need to be on a specific flight for some reason).
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Also true to my experience. Back two jobs ago, we had international customers with somewhat high demand to ship our people all across the world on, sometimes on a moment's notice. I had to fly out 4 or 5 times in the span of two years, but some of my colleagues could do more than that in under a year. Somehow, the flights were almost always the cheapest airline available, and the cheapest seats available. The co-workers who flew frequently, including my boss, were all using the accumulating miles to bump themselves a class up.
  - rockinghigh 6y ago
    American Airlines has a Premium Economy class: https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/seats/premium-economy.jsp https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/seats/premium...
- d-sc 6y ago
  At least in the states. Most airlines I fly have an option for a premium seat that costs more and has more leg room.
- rockinghigh 6y ago
  > There are very few airlines that offer more legroom United Premium, United Premium Plus, Delta Premium Select, American Airlines Premium Economy, Lufthansa Premium Economy, Alaska Airlines Premium Class, Air France Premium Economy, Air China Premium Economy...
  - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
    AFAIK, most of those aren't available on domestic US flights. If you're flying internationally, it's almost always been possible to spend more to get more space and service, sometimes up to rather eye-watering levels, but flights within the US tend to be limited to economy and first class. (Some economy seats do have more leg room than others and carry a premium charge, but the OP may still be technically correct based on the "very few" condition.)
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  I'm not sure I see the connection you're trying to draw between your first two sentences. Airlines are regulated, but their price and service are much less regulated now than they were about 40 years ago. Their prices are much lower, as perhaps expected, and their service is much worse, as perhaps less expected than easily predicted if you're a realist rather than an optimist. The vast majority of airlines nickel-and-dime customers on domestic flights, making virtually everything they can from baggage to legroom to boarding time into for-pay options, because they learned that no matter what customers say, they shop on base price. Since deregulation, various airlines have tried to offer better seating, service, etc., as all-inclusive and more expensive tickets, and time after time, customers just click on the cheapest thing they find on Priceline. tl;dr: when it comes to crappy airline service, the fault, dear Brutus, is not in our regulators, but ourselves.
- kalleboo 6y ago
  When I fly I definitely pay more to avoid certain airlines. For instance, when flying to the US, I avoid any US-based airline, as they all always have noticeably worse service and seats, and will pay maybe 10-20% more to fly a EU or asian airline.
SteveGerencser 6y ago
But, do people actually know that when they purchase? If it were clearly stated anywhere on the box/sales copy that "you will see ads on this device" while the other one says "we won't shove ads on your device" I would wager the $10 more would be a bargain to nearly everyone. But that information is never available at the point of purchase so most people get the surprise of see ads when they had no idea that was even a thing.
- ascagnel_ 6y ago
  I’d have less of a problem with this if they went about it the way Amazon sells ads on their Kindle e-readers: - You can buy the device for $X, and it’s marked as being sold “with special offers” (a euphemism for ads that would be more explicit in an ideal world) - You can buy the device for $X + $Y, and it’s marked as being sold “without special offers” - You can buy the device for $X “with special offers” today, but you can spend $Y once you have the device to “disable special offers” This case is pretty terrible because Samsung isn’t giving buyers the ability to pay them the $10 directly to disable ads while not being up-front about whether or not ads will be served.
  - criddell 6y ago
    Turning off the ads should also turn off the surveillance.
  - delecti 6y ago
    The "Special Offers" also have the advantage of being super unobtrusive, especially when the device is actually in use. That's not really the case here.
  - joombaga 6y ago
    One more option that was at least available on older Kindles - You can buy the device for $X “with special offers” today, then hack it and remove the "special offers". I don't know how prevalent this is, but wonder if it's a consideration in deciding on the "money to disable ads" strategy.
jimbokun 6y ago
> It's the same thing in the airline industry - people will complain all day long about legroom and being treated as cattle, but the next time they buy a ticket they vote with their wallets when they sort the flight list by price and choose the cheapest option. Do any of the airfare search sites allow you to sort/filter by legroom? I would love that feature.
- ascot_attn_atol 6y ago
  Isn't sorting by class effectively that?
- shajznnckfke 6y ago
  On google flights, if you click into the individual flight segments in the search results, it shows the legroom alongside other features like WiFi.
myself248 6y ago
If the flight-booking website offered a "sort by legroom", I'd click that. The trouble is there's no good way for me to know as a consumer which planes from which operators (and which affiliates) have which legroom, so it's not a meaningful choice I can make. If someone would roll out such a feature, I'd use the hell out of just as soon as I feel like packing my butt into a petri-dish again.
- bluGill 6y ago
  United had economy plus which was exactly the same plane with more legroom. It was nice the one time I got it (my boss wouldn't pay, but I got an upgrade... otherwise I rarely take flights longer than an hour so it isn't worth $20 or whatever the difference was)
jungturk 6y ago
US mainline carriers unbundled the legroom for folks that didn't want it. The three big mainline carriers offer coach seats with extra legroom on most domestic flights (branded as Delta Comfort+, United Economy Plus, and American Main Cabin Extra).
ornornor 6y ago
I think it’s a different reason. These products are perceived as commodities and the expectations are rather low in the first place. So why wouldn’t you try to spend as little as possible on a commodity when you know it’s likely to be borderline shitty or at best barely adequate? I have this strategy when buying cheapo China made crap on eBay or aliexpress: I expect it to be low quality, not last, or not even fit the purpose because the specs are fiction so I try and find the cheapest of these widgets I can buy. Airline tickets are the same: I know I’ll be treated like shit, nickel and dimed, and have no legroom so why wouldn’t I be looking for the cheapest ticket?

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

I don't know why this comment hasn't been upvoted more since it's absolutely spot on.

swiley 6y ago

I'll bet the difference that my $50 projector was way cheaper than whatever TV this is and it doesn't have ads (although it also doesn't seem to have working DPMS but that might just be my Xorg config.)

defnotashton2 6y ago

Airlines are controlled and limited by regulation to where its no longer "free" and you can't vote with your dollar cause you are a guarantee. There are very few airlines that offer more legroom and even then it's not comfortable. Same with telecoms. TV industry lacks competition in this regard as well but largely due to the centralized manufacturing. I also blame modern ip law as many of these companies have rediculous protections increasing cost of entry.

selectodude 6y ago
>There are very few airlines that offer more legroom and even then it's not comfortable. American tried. American failed. Nobody was willing to pay more. https://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/04/business/american-air-to-put-more-room-in-coach.html https://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/04/business/american-air-to-...
- derekp7 6y ago
  Isn't that because most of the people that fly multiple times a year aren't the ones paying for the tickets? Instead their company has policies on getting the cheaper flights. And people that fly for a vacation once every few years, they may not have enough experience flying to realize the benefit (or, if they do want a better experience, they go all the way to first class).
  - alistairSH 6y ago
    I don't if that's true for most air travel, but it's definitely true for my business travel. Corporate policy is the ticket has to be within a reasonable range of price (average price +/- some amount, not sure exactly). This means I can usually select between 2-3 airlines, 2 airports, and plenty of times, but I am always limited to basic economy without prior approval (which has been granted for international travel and if I need to be on a specific flight for some reason).
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Also true to my experience. Back two jobs ago, we had international customers with somewhat high demand to ship our people all across the world on, sometimes on a moment's notice. I had to fly out 4 or 5 times in the span of two years, but some of my colleagues could do more than that in under a year. Somehow, the flights were almost always the cheapest airline available, and the cheapest seats available. The co-workers who flew frequently, including my boss, were all using the accumulating miles to bump themselves a class up.
- rockinghigh 6y ago
  American Airlines has a Premium Economy class: https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/seats/premium-economy.jsp https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/seats/premium...
d-sc 6y ago
At least in the states. Most airlines I fly have an option for a premium seat that costs more and has more leg room.
rockinghigh 6y ago
> There are very few airlines that offer more legroom United Premium, United Premium Plus, Delta Premium Select, American Airlines Premium Economy, Lufthansa Premium Economy, Alaska Airlines Premium Class, Air France Premium Economy, Air China Premium Economy...
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  AFAIK, most of those aren't available on domestic US flights. If you're flying internationally, it's almost always been possible to spend more to get more space and service, sometimes up to rather eye-watering levels, but flights within the US tend to be limited to economy and first class. (Some economy seats do have more leg room than others and carry a premium charge, but the OP may still be technically correct based on the "very few" condition.)
chipotle_coyote 6y ago
I'm not sure I see the connection you're trying to draw between your first two sentences. Airlines are regulated, but their price and service are much less regulated now than they were about 40 years ago. Their prices are much lower, as perhaps expected, and their service is much worse, as perhaps less expected than easily predicted if you're a realist rather than an optimist. The vast majority of airlines nickel-and-dime customers on domestic flights, making virtually everything they can from baggage to legroom to boarding time into for-pay options, because they learned that no matter what customers say, they shop on base price. Since deregulation, various airlines have tried to offer better seating, service, etc., as all-inclusive and more expensive tickets, and time after time, customers just click on the cheapest thing they find on Priceline. tl;dr: when it comes to crappy airline service, the fault, dear Brutus, is not in our regulators, but ourselves.
kalleboo 6y ago
When I fly I definitely pay more to avoid certain airlines. For instance, when flying to the US, I avoid any US-based airline, as they all always have noticeably worse service and seats, and will pay maybe 10-20% more to fly a EU or asian airline.

SteveGerencser 6y ago

But, do people actually know that when they purchase? If it were clearly stated anywhere on the box/sales copy that "you will see ads on this device" while the other one says "we won't shove ads on your device" I would wager the $10 more would be a bargain to nearly everyone. But that information is never available at the point of purchase so most people get the surprise of see ads when they had no idea that was even a thing.

ascagnel_ 6y ago
I’d have less of a problem with this if they went about it the way Amazon sells ads on their Kindle e-readers: - You can buy the device for $X, and it’s marked as being sold “with special offers” (a euphemism for ads that would be more explicit in an ideal world) - You can buy the device for $X + $Y, and it’s marked as being sold “without special offers” - You can buy the device for $X “with special offers” today, but you can spend $Y once you have the device to “disable special offers” This case is pretty terrible because Samsung isn’t giving buyers the ability to pay them the $10 directly to disable ads while not being up-front about whether or not ads will be served.
- criddell 6y ago
  Turning off the ads should also turn off the surveillance.
- delecti 6y ago
  The "Special Offers" also have the advantage of being super unobtrusive, especially when the device is actually in use. That's not really the case here.
- joombaga 6y ago
  One more option that was at least available on older Kindles - You can buy the device for $X “with special offers” today, then hack it and remove the "special offers". I don't know how prevalent this is, but wonder if it's a consideration in deciding on the "money to disable ads" strategy.

jimbokun 6y ago

> It's the same thing in the airline industry - people will complain all day long about legroom and being treated as cattle, but the next time they buy a ticket they vote with their wallets when they sort the flight list by price and choose the cheapest option. Do any of the airfare search sites allow you to sort/filter by legroom? I would love that feature.

ascot_attn_atol 6y ago
Isn't sorting by class effectively that?
shajznnckfke 6y ago
On google flights, if you click into the individual flight segments in the search results, it shows the legroom alongside other features like WiFi.

myself248 6y ago

If the flight-booking website offered a "sort by legroom", I'd click that. The trouble is there's no good way for me to know as a consumer which planes from which operators (and which affiliates) have which legroom, so it's not a meaningful choice I can make. If someone would roll out such a feature, I'd use the hell out of just as soon as I feel like packing my butt into a petri-dish again.

bluGill 6y ago
United had economy plus which was exactly the same plane with more legroom. It was nice the one time I got it (my boss wouldn't pay, but I got an upgrade... otherwise I rarely take flights longer than an hour so it isn't worth $20 or whatever the difference was)

jungturk 6y ago

US mainline carriers unbundled the legroom for folks that didn't want it. The three big mainline carriers offer coach seats with extra legroom on most domestic flights (branded as Delta Comfort+, United Economy Plus, and American Main Cabin Extra).

ornornor 6y ago

I think it’s a different reason. These products are perceived as commodities and the expectations are rather low in the first place. So why wouldn’t you try to spend as little as possible on a commodity when you know it’s likely to be borderline shitty or at best barely adequate? I have this strategy when buying cheapo China made crap on eBay or aliexpress: I expect it to be low quality, not last, or not even fit the purpose because the specs are fiction so I try and find the cheapest of these widgets I can buy. Airline tickets are the same: I know I’ll be treated like shit, nickel and dimed, and have no legroom so why wouldn’t I be looking for the cheapest ticket?